View Full Version : Does this make sense?
crazpony
10-07-2006, 19:02
My truck would stall, constantly, sometimes 1 minute after start, sometime a speed, at stop lights, well constantly at various times. PMD replaced, IP 15,000 miles ago, lift pump has great pressure, new filter (bled corectly), etc.
Took the fuel shut-off solinod off, got fuel out of port, cleaned springs and connector and truck run constantly for 3 hours, no burps, no misses, ran great.
Drive it a while, check it out, see if it reoccurs.............
crazpony
10-08-2006, 13:20
OK, so it was a fluke :mad:, still stalling, goes to dealer TOMORROW :mad:
I had the same problem you did! I replaced lift pump, oil pressure switch, fuel filter, checked for air in the lines, new remote pmd, gave up took the truck to chevy. They thought it was the injector pump & wanted 2000 to 2300 dollars. I reminded them that it was under IP warrenty suprise suprise they had never heard of this warrenty but said they would check into it. They called back told me I was right! (THANKS DIESEL PAGE FOR THAT INFO) They installed the IP & all was well for about a month took it back this time they said it was the computer. So they replaced that. Its been about a year now with a good running truck. Sorry this was so long but I like to stick the dealer for trying to charge me for the pump!
crazpony
10-11-2006, 10:51
Same here, the dealer connected the scanner to the computer and got no communication or codes. New brains required, hopefully will fix my problems
crazpony
10-11-2006, 13:41
OK, call me skeptical but, yesterday at the dealer, the computer was problem after diagnoses, ordered computer. TODAY, I get a call from the dealer, different mech:mad: , contanimated fuel is causing the IP to fail. $550 for tank cleaning and fuel removal (a new tank is $198), $2,600 for IP (not installed + LABOR:eek:, remanufacture IP $695) and $255 a new cam sensor.
How, overnight can it go from a bad PCM ($265 intalled) to contanimated fuel causing the IP to fail and a bad cam sensor:confused: ? IP was replaced by Chevy 20,000ago under warranty, truck now has 135,000.
Am I reading to deeply and the first mech made a wrong diagnoses?????
6.5's don't have cam sensors....
Do they mean the optic sensor? If so, that's included in the pump.
crazpony
10-11-2006, 15:27
OK, the soga continues, went to pick up the truck from the dealer and spoke with the service manger. The results:
The service manger said "Both tanks need to be cleaned (both being the word), I mentioned that I have a single tank not duals, he said "yes, you have one filler neck but it goes into two tanks. When I ask how do I switch from one tank to the other, he said its automatic.
When I ask the service manager about the "CAM" sensor, he attempted to varify that "some" 6.5L diesels were equipted with cam sensors while others had optic sensors.
When I asked for a printout of the diagnoses from the computer he said "We already threw it away", I asked him to go in the computer and pull it out, he said "they purge the computer of all information daily"
Since I purchase fuel from the same station for my truck and tractor for years, I asked for documentation that I had contaminated fuel so I can go the station he said, "We really don't like documenting this"
When I asked how they verified that the fuel was contaminated he said "We siphened (sp?) about an ounce out, held it to the light.
jilaroo2
10-11-2006, 16:04
Hi there,
I have had intermittent stalling problems and no start problems ( hot and cold ) on many occasions. Also NO error codes recorded. Most of the time it happened pretty far from home (don't know why LOL) Once I had it towed home 3 times in one week ! Inconveniently once the truck sat in the driveway it started right up!?! So far for troubleshooting here!
Being an electronic engineer I'm having a hard time believing electronic parts go bad that fast without a reason ( FSD, electronic fuel pump etc.). So I started looking in to it and this is what I found so far.........
I put in a brand spanking new PMD outside of the engine compartment because the heat problem sounds kinda plausible. Though I'm not convinced the old one has gone bad. I still had the same problem. Then I replaced the ignition switch assy. When I opened the old one I found contacts that were burnt. (Again plausible.) That part can be found at www.rockauto.com. Part number is: #26075995 at +/- $88.
Still I had the same problem!
Next thing I found that I could barely touch the ignition key for the engine to turn off. Hitting the steering column would even stall the engine from time to time. I found that the key cylinder mechanically moves a gear that on its turn moves the ignition switch had jumped one tooth. I removed the key cylinder and moved the thing one tooth back again. Now the engine shuts off when the key is turned for at least 1/4".(plausible again).But still the same problem going on !!!
Being out of any other ideas I removed the glove compartment box to have a look at the famous PCM. The truck was idling while doing that. When I touched the blue connector on the PCM the truck died ! I removed the PCM and started the truck again.......Turned out that when I wiggled the green wire on that blue connector the engine would turn off. The green wire is the "engine fuel control" line that runs to the PMD. I cleaned the contacts of all the connectors on the PCM and put everything back together. Now I can wiggle the wires and connectors as hard as I want to without stalling the vehicle.
So far it is still running like a train. Last weekend I drove it from San Jose, CA to Phoenix, AZ and back without a single problem.
Maybe one of these things might be interesting to look out for on your truck. One never knows !
Sincerely,
Ron
Yeah, best to get it out of there ASAP. Thats the kind of service that gives dealers a bad reputation. Only take it to a dealer with a tech with good 6.5 knowledge.
Like John said there is no cam sensor as in the valve train cam. They probably did mean the optic sensor. The optic sensor looks at a 255? holed pinwheel thingy I don't know exactly but its tied to the cam gear or cam on the IP has to do with measuring the pump's precise time location or reference to crankshaft position. Dang sure the dealer/mechanic ought to be able to explain it to you. If it were bad it would set a code I am pretty sure so it is probably not bad.
Dang near every truck ( probably 99.4% of all trucks) over 5 years maybe even 1 year old will have "some fuel contamination" in the tank. Thats why filters are so absolutely important on diesels the fuel is a little dirty even at the better to best of stations. They usually pull crud out of the fuel manager to get you with that one from what I have read. Its even more ironic and crappy that they get you with that one when its thier cheapo tank lining that is failing and they want to charge you for cleaning it and/or replacing it. I seriously doubt they could tell anything with a siphoned oz. sample unless it was really contaminated and you would have other issues and seems to me they would have been happy to show you the bad sample to get you to buy into it. I guess they just are use to dealing with roll over and play dead customers.
ABSOLUTELY! could be an electrical connectivity problem. If they replaced the IP once before they could have bent a pin in the engine harness connectors somewhere. I think they are suppose to replace part of it with new IP too. Did they? Could have bent the new one on assembly just as easy.
From reading the DP don't ever let a dealer condemn an electronic IP unless it gives a few specific OBD codes and or really dies a horrible death ie reving w/o throttle or acting up regularly. And then its still advised to have a stanadyne IP specialist verify its bad.
As far as the PCM being bad might still be that but do check connections first. A bad connection to PMD or FSD won't usually set any codes either.
I'm a former fuels and lube engineer. This dealership's responses run the Bazanga Meter to 12 (max is 10).
They're as full of crap as a Christmas goose...
OK, the soga continues, went to pick up the truck from the dealer and spoke with the service manger. The results:
...
OK, when I stop laughing I'll try to think of something intelligent to say. Meanwhile, take the truck somewhere else, and if they ask for money tell them they're luck you don't want to sue them.
Oh, yeah, have them put it on a lift and point out that second tank...
moondoggie
10-12-2006, 09:55
Good Day!
It is painfully obvious that this dealership has no idea what it's doing, which is pretty much the norm for diesel trucks. DO WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET IT OUT OF THERE WITHOUT PAYING ANYTHING!!!!! Please, re-read what you wrote about what they told you - it would be hilarious if it wasn't actually happening to you.
Ask around - maybe there's someplace that actually knows what they're doing within a reasonable distance where you can take your truck.
Blessings!
crazpony
10-12-2006, 12:21
Please, re-read what you wrote about what they told you - it would be hilarious if it wasn't actually happening to you.
Ask around - maybe there's someplace that actually knows what they're doing within a reasonable distance where you can take your truck.
Well found a REAL diesel mech, large operation that work from pickups to big rig diesels. The shop got a hugh laugh :D :D out of the dealers report, as a matter of fact, a copy is posted on their bulletin board.
Report from the REAL diesel mech, IP is good, second tank must have fallen out along with the CAM sensor between the dealer and the REAL diesel shop, ran an analysis of fuel and it was clean even checked the crud trap and it was clean. The shop connected 3 scanners to the truck and the computer wouldn't communicate with any. He mentioned that it was either a bad chip, PCM or wiring problem.
My first step, replace chip (least expensive), second is the PCM (not to bad price wise) then start tracing wires (most tedious :( ). I'll keep you up-dated.
crazpony
10-14-2006, 12:23
Well last night was a miserable night for my truck, stalling, stalling, stalling then NO start. The auto-parts store called saying computer wouldn't be in till Monday or Tuesday so I re-read the posts about stalling. This morning went and got a new PMD ($374.00 :eek: ), remote mounted it and she fired right up:D , cruised around getting hay, feed and bedding without a hitch:D :D .
Hopefully this will continue to solve my stalling / no-start problem:p
crazpony
10-15-2006, 18:27
I hope I am not geting to excited :D yet, 2 days, 160 miles, multiple starts, not a lick of problems. And to think the Chevy mech wanted to charge me $4200 to repair the truck, hopefully saved myself $3830 by second guessing him. :cool:, time will tell............:rolleyes:
DA BIG ONE
10-16-2006, 02:01
[Being out of any other ideas I removed the glove compartment box to have a look at the famous PCM. The truck was idling while doing that. When I touched the blue connector on the PCM the truck died ! I removed the PCM and started the truck again.......Turned out that when I wiggled the green wire on that blue connector the engine would turn off. The green wire is the "engine fuel control" line that runs to the PMD. I cleaned the contacts of all the connectors on the PCM and put everything back together. Now I can wiggle the wires and connectors as hard as I want to without stalling the vehicle.[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]So far it is still running like a train. Last weekend I drove it from San Jose, CA to Phoenix, AZ and back without a single problem. ]
The harness has a problem as it comes into the cabin goes up beside the glovebox and into computer. Look to see if the harness is pulled from harness, or pins are pulled from assembly. This happens because the harness is exposed to passengers feet, and when a passenger places feet forward and up then stretches out it stresses the harness assembly to the point of pulling pins which you can't see until you go to the computer connectors and push them "the pins" into connector one by one, check all 3 conntectors.
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