H E L P please...

[O&A party rock]

I am having some troubles with my new truck. While driving around during the day last Thursday my truck started to knock every once in a while. I thought strange, but kept driving. While on the highway, doing about 60-65mph it started to feel as if I was losing a cylinder or two. I varied my speed, no change. I gave it some more pedal and smoked out the cars behind me, whitish smoke, accompanied with stronger vibrations. Did that all again to make sure it wasn't a momentary thing and it smoked and hesitated like hell. I pulled over and called for a tow. The dealer at first said the fuel could be bad so I called the station where I had filled up and he said I was the first to complain and he sells thousands of gallons every day. "of course the dealer blamed the fuel" he said. The dealer then called me later in the day and said they had found a bad injector and they were going to replace it. I said 1 or all 8, I thought that changing them all was good practice, he was quick to say how wrong I was and they don't change good parts. Said fuel probably wasn't to blame either. They did the work and road tested it Friday afternoon. Tech said drivability was OK, no vibe or smoke, but knock still present. He now wanted to do the fuel sample. 1 hour later he calls and says there is 'tons' of water in fuel. No indicator had come on in the truck, but ok, lets see where this goes. Tech wants to drop tank and clean it, drain lines, and start fresh. Sounds like the right thing to do to me so he does it and finishes today, actually was road testing it when I called for an update. Service advisor calls back with more fantastic news. Tech still hears knock, has one more injector he is going to replace. Also says don't worry, we will try and take care of you with the bill, obviously eluding to the fact that bad fuel and subsequent damage isn't covered under warranty. Also said the fuel had sediment/sand in it in addition to the moisture. He kept the sample and I can have it to go back to the Mobil station where I filled up. It is easy to trace that part back since it was the 2nd time I had filled it up. THE TRUCK HAS ONLY 1200 MILES ON IT!

My questions are many...I have no faith in the service department that's working on it, which is strange since they sell a ton of commercial vehicles and I paid out of pocket for the additional miles for the tow there. How common is bad fuel? Is tech following any type of checklist? It seems he is grabbing at straws. Anyone else have anything like this ever happen to them and what was the outcome? I figure with the time, parts and tow, I'll probably end up north of $3k and no one willing to step up.

The rain part I included because it was the first time it had been driven in rain and the fuel had already been in the tank for 100 miles or so and thought it might have leaked in somehow.

Should I press for more injectors/pump if the sediment problem turns out to be legit?

The truck was a cab and chassis assembled by a body shop at a competing dealership and I suggested to please check over the lines carefuly in and out of the tank for loose/ screwed up connections. That was all OK and I believe them since they would love to point out someone else's mistake.

Is there any chance of the new ULSD or LSD playing a role in any of this? Where I filled up had the LSD stickers up but I gave it no thought since this engine is the LBZ and would run fine on either.

Also any links to a good primary fuel filter would be appreciated since that is going to be added soon.

Thanks in advance for any help, comments, suggestions, sympathy.

Jesse

2007 2500HD reg cab 2WD Alli auto

[More Power]

Hard to know for sure what the problem might be attributed to.

Bad fuel happens occasionally. In the 20+ years I've been driving a diesel pickup I"ve only gotten two tanks of bad fuel. One was due to a station delivery pump that ground itself into tiny metal particles and went into my tank, and the other was from a brand new station with what was probably crap in the new underground tank.

Hindsight being 20/20, changing the fuel filter yourself before letting the dealer touch it would have cleared up a lot of things. For example, if you kept the original filter, you could cut it open to determine whether there was water/contamination present, which would help determine whether the fuel supplier or the dealer is making the right diagnosis.

Rule #1 for diesel ownership: Always - always, change the fuel filter before taking the truck to a dealer for just about any sort of engine running problem, whether in or out of warranty.

Warranty coverage and contaminated fuel..... There are two trains of thought.
1- If there's water contamination, the "water in fuel" indicator should have caught it. If there's debris in the tank, the filter element should have caught it. GM should cover the warranty repair.
2- An auto manufacturer can't be held liable for a customer's poor choice (or luck) in using bad fuel.

Cleaning out a fuel tank is always a customer (non-warranty) expense, and is part of why some dealers push for it. I'd ask for the old fuel filter before authorizing the work, just to see for myself.

The new ULSD wouldn't be any more likely to have caused this than the old fuel.

Check the Product Reviews (http://www.thedieselpage.com/reviews.htm) page for links to a few different auxiliary fuel filter installations.

Jim

[Kennedy]

New LLY trucks (mine included) have exhibited conditions like this when new. There was actually a PI bulletin discussing the use of lubricity additive. My truck did smoke blue a few times when new, but hasn't done it since broken in.

[O&A party rock]

Today the dealer calls me at about 4PM with more great news. They replaced another injector and now the truck is running lousy again. The dealer has ordered the remaining 6 injectors and has been talking with Chevy about the problem with my truck. I said if you cleaned the tank and lines, how can we still be running so poorly? He said you can't get all the fuel out and there might have been some existing contamination that they were not able to remove. A chevy rep (?) is coming by tomorrow and he is going to try to get this all approved to be paid for under warranty by leaving out the contaminated fuel issues. My faith was never strong with these guys to begin with, and this capped it. He said the cost of the new injectors was $600 to $700 EACH. Thats right sports fans, $4800-5600 for new injectors is what he told me. Not including the 4 days labor he has into it for now. Apparently the fuel filter on the truck is useless. I will be talking to them tomorrow and will pass any updates along.

Thanks for the input MP and Kennedy, I appreciate it alot.

I was thinking about stopping them if it won't be covered under warranty and changing the injectors myself with aftermarket ones. I know this will probably end any warranty help down the road, but the thought of a 7-9 thousand dollar bill for one tank of questionable fuel is absolutely killing me. I'd love to abandon them, change the injectors, add the fuel pre-filter kit, kill the EGR loop and add the blockoffs, but I don't know. He said the practice of changing all 8 injectors ended with the 06 models and the new ones are not supposed to foul up, except in cases of questionable fuel.

Any more input would be appreciated

Jesse

[O&A party rock]

Finally got the truck back, 12 days and $1150 later. They said they fought with Chevy (themselves) and got them to cover the injector replacement even though it was caused from 'contaminated fuel'. I asked for the filter since it would be very handy in convincing the station where I filled up and they said they threw it out. They gave me a sample, in a Lipton Iced Tea bottle. 3/4 full, bottom 2 inches was dirty brown liquid with a very small amount of sediment in it. Top three inches of was cloudy liquid that floated on bottom stuff. Shake the bottle and they would combine and settle out in about 30 seconds. The brown liquid looked alot like iced tea... Smelled like I don't know what. I expected some kind of diesel odor but did not recognize it at all. I asked what they did about the faulty water in fuel indicator since it did not come on. They said the float switch was so clogged with sediment that it did not work. I don't know what, if any of it I believe and we will see what Mobil Oil thinks in the weeks to come.

Fuel prefilter to be added this week, just need to pick which one, any input welcome here. Anybody like one style over another, also mounting location different on '07 LBZ?

Last question for now, anyone know of any good place to send 'fuel' sample and get it analyzed? I need to find out what the hell is in this Lipton bottle before I give to Mobil and they tell me it is iced tea.

Thanks everyone
Jesse

[Mark Rinker]

Wow. What an unfortunate start to new truck ownership.

One thought: Cab/Chassis are transported without a box and then sit outside waiting to be outfitted. The fuel tank is exposed to rain, and while it is supposed to be sealed, I am wondering if rain could puddle on the tank and make its way around the fuel sender. Same thoughts for the filler tube and fuel cap. Sitting in the elements, waiting to be covered up by the box/bed/etc that the installs

Personally, I'd be paying a visit to the 'competetive dealer' that sold the truck, and asking them what happened to the fuel system on this cab/chassis.

Q: Why didn't you take a brand new vehicle exhibiting problems back to the selling dealer - where you have 'NEW PURCHASE' leverage for freebie repairs?

[O&A party rock]

Service work was done at the original selling dealer. Sorry if that wasn't clear. I paid an extra $231 for towing that Chevy roadside did not cover since it was past their 20 mile limit for free towing. I wanted the selling dealer to own this issue and avoid any finger pointing. They acted like heroes when they were able to get all the injectors covered under warranty, could have cost $6-8 thousand from what they said. I am not happy with any of this, but what can you do. This was 1 of 3 LBZ's we bought and that was the leverage that made sure the bulk of the work was covered. They couldn't have blamed the fuel quick enough.

I have no faith in the dealer that did the work and hope for no more issues with this truck. I asked them about the connections to the tank and it would have been easy for them to blame the body installer since it wasn't them but they said they were all tight. Loose from the factory? Maybe, but the truck ran great until I filled up the day before it died. The station owner has already informed me that his diesel is fine and I should not have filled up an '07 diesel with his diesel (>500PPM sulfur content). Don't worry, I told him this is the same LBZ engine that was in the '06's and I am not complaining about the lubricity, just the water and contaminants. I don't expect much in the way of money back from him. We will try our luck with Mobil Oil on Monday.

Thanks Mark


Jesse

[DmaxMaverick]

Somebody is to blame here. Be the dealer for failed equipment, or the fuel supplier for allowing contaminated fuel to be pumped. They will continue to pass the blame back and forth until you have some solid proof.

Another angle. Don't rule out vandalism or "acts of nature". There a lot of mean people out there these days, and Mother Nature is one of them. If you eliminate all other possibilities, that's all that's left. If that's the case, your insurance comprehensive policy will cover it. My insurance co. paid for $500 in wire damage on my 2000 Impala caused by a large rodent.

[O&A party rock]

That's on hell of a rodent! I hadn't thought of the insurance angle, thats a good last resort. Thanks for the input and I will keep you posted with the latest developments...

Anyone know of someplace to have my 'fuel sample' tested? I need to find one so I can start getting on someones' case.


Thanks and let others learn from my pain and add their own fuel prefilter.

Jesse

Kennedy-will your prefilter mount somewhere in an '07?

[DmaxMaverick]

For the fuel sample, go to www.avlube.com . He's a member here, and a bunch of help to many others. The fuel analysis is pricey ($75), but hard to find anyone to do it. In your situation, you would be better contacting him (phone# and email on his homepage) and explain what happened. He would have a better idea what you need, and may offer some special attention to the specific problem. He's done it in the past for others here.

Filtration? You can't have enough. The Megafilter from JK is about a good as it gets, but not always practical. It's huge (hence the name. I have one), and will not fit just anywhere. The one offered by Greg Landuyt (www.lubricationspecialist.com) is about the easiest to install and maintain, but is smaller. It installs where the second alternator would go, if you don't already have on there. Both are of the highest quality, and a complete kit, and both use Baldwin elements.

Yes. Please do keep us posted. Inquiring minds want to know....