Update: Help! 6.5 Turbo Diesel problems.

[glivingstone]

Hi everyone.
Well its not good news but I have managed to get some codes from a dealer although they have little or no knowledge of the vehicle and were hesitant to reveal the codes, here they are:
P0216 Injection Timing Control Circuit
P1214 Injection Pump Timing Offset
Does this in anyway point to the FSD or something else?
Also asked about checking the TDC Offset and the guy was clearly out of his depth.
Oh he also said that the Injection timing was 0.0 when in on mode and 6.8 when in off mode???
Advice given was anything from a new IP to a new PCM (computer) they just don't know.
Vehicle appears to run fine for a minute or two when it is cold but then massively overfuels at low revs, however seems to run normally over 2000 RPM.
Any help would be appreciated.

[Bnave95]

Hi everyone.
Well its not good news but I have managed to get some codes from a dealer although they have little or no knowledge of the vehicle and were hesitant to reveal the codes, here they are:
P0216 Injection Timing Control Circuit
P1214 Injection Pump Timing Offset
Does this in anyway point to the FSD or something else?
Also asked about checking the TDC Offset and the guy was clearly out of his depth.
Oh he also said that the Injection timing was 0.0 when in on mode and 6.8 when in off mode???
Advice given was anything from a new IP to a new PCM (computer) they just don't know.
Vehicle appears to run fine for a minute or two when it is cold but then massively overfuels at low revs, however seems to run normally over 2000 RPM.
Any help would be appreciated.
When the Eng. is cool the ecm will adavance the timing. Try running with Eng. coolent temp, ECT upluged when warm. Coolent cross over by T-stats.
The FSD sounds hurt:( The timing needs programed.

[JohnC]

Get the pump set and the TDC offset learn done and the rest of your problems might very well go away.

[tommac95]

G.Livingstone--

The FuelInjectionPump contains a high-resolution OpticalEncoder.
If your fuel is funky {like some idiot* dumps enough red-dyed transmission lube , or engine lube-oil with all the black soot particles ... into your fuel tank} the optical sensor gets confused/blinded ... and the engine runs like it's severely impaired/inebriated.

So , after replacing the fuel filter [purging/bleeding] try feeding the LiftPump with a source of clean, high quality diesel fuel , and see if the engine runs more according to design/intention. If this cures symptoms consider tank cleaning/replacement, new fuel supply; or if cheap, you may bypass the FIP
and use the LP to circulate the existing fuel thru the filter, and maybe try another filter after a while....Decent fuel supply is necessary for good ops.

Have you checked over the electric connections at least the engine wire harness grounds and the battery cable connections, both ends?






*Ask how i know THIS??

[glivingstone]

When the Eng. is cool the ecm will adavance the timing. Try running with Eng. coolent temp, ECT upluged when warm. Coolent cross over by T-stats.
The FSD sounds hurt:( The timing needs programed.


Tried disconnecting the ECT senser and found the engine ran a little faster and noisier but all the smoke and stalling stopped. Have ordered a new senser to see if it makes any difference otherwise I guess its back to timing.
Thanks

[Bnave95]

Tried disconnecting the ECT senser and found the engine ran a little faster and noisier but all the smoke and stalling stopped. Have ordered a new senser to see if it makes any difference otherwise I guess its back to timing.
Thanks
The ECTS is working and a new one won't change any thing. Untill your able to do a TDCOL I would bump the pump toward the driver side.

[glivingstone]

Thanks I'll give it a try.
Mine is a right hand drive, so I will try going to the passenger side?

[Bnave95]

Thanks I'll give it a try.
Mine is a right hand drive, so I will try going to the passenger side?
Yea I'm with you on that one:D

[Warren96]

Scribe a mark on the housing before you move the pump, that way you can get back to this timing setting if you should have to. Changing the timing my not help, but if you can get back to where it was, at least you wont make it worse.

[Robyn]

The results you obtained by disconnecting the ECTS are caused by the fact that the computer then thinks the temp is very cold so it advances the timing accordingly for a deep cold startup.
This would be an indicator that you do have a timing issue

[Robyn]

I reread the early posts on your issue.
I am of the opinion that the timing stepper motor has issues.
This is an IP remove and repair thing.
Not all that scarry but I believe the pump should be checked.
With the pump off it would be a great time to relocate the PMD to a cool shady place with a longer wiring harness. (several folks make such items)
When the stepper motor takes a poop the PCM cant change the timing as is needed to allow the engine to run correctly.

Sorry to be a harbinger of bad news but this seems to be the direction this is pointing.
Robyn

[glivingstone]

Well guys here's the latest, I moved the IP to the right from the front of the vehicle about 2 mm, this improved the running, stopped a lot of the smoke and it did not stall. Moved the pump another 2mm and now hardly any smoke but at times still a little hesitation and missing, idles fine.
The stepper motor makes sense, does anyone now where the stepper motor is located?
I have an old pump which was replaced due to stalling some time ago before I purchased the vehicle.
Thinking I might be able to change over the stepper motors.:confused:
Looking at purchasing a CarCode scanner to view the timing settings.

[Robyn]

Sorry to say but that is a job for the pump boys downtown.
Pump needs to come off and apart and be checked over and most likely repaired.
I wont back down from much when it comes to these rigs, Complete overhauls "No sweat" trannies/4L80/ 4L60 No sweat but pumps are best left to the folks who have all the right equipment. I have taken an IP apart many moons ago and looked it over and stuffed it back together.
Yup let the specialists do that stuff.
Its not that its so compilcated but it just requires tools and test equipment that most of us don't have available.
Take the pump off and trot it down to the local pump rebuilder and let them bless it for you.
Once you get it back on you will need to get the thing timed with a tech tool.
You can get it back up and running but to get the timing right on will take the tool

[JohnC]

I still think you should get it timed correctly before launching into expensive pump work. The stepper motor will set a code if it doesn't work correctly, so onec it's timed and the old codes cleared, if it stays code free, then that's not an issue. Hesitation and such sounds more like fuel filter or lift pump to me.

[glivingstone]

Well guys things haven't improved any.
Purchased a CarCode and checked out the timing settings and codes.
Active codes are P0216 Timing control circuit and P1214 TDCO.
The timing settings at idle were, with pump advanced IPT 2.1, IPTD 5.5 and TDCO 2.5.
With pump back to original setting IPT 0.0, IPTD 5.1 and TDCO 2.5 and all original symptoms returned.
Tried reseting the TDCO with the Carcode and the KOKO method but no result.
Checked all codes were cleared and engine temp was over 170 still no result.
Also checked all wiring again including removing and reinstalling PCM.
Changed over the stepper motor with a spare I had no result either.
I am now thinking that this is either a PCM problem or an IP problem.
Can anyone suggest a way to distingish where the problem is?
I am looking at purchasing the pump or PCM from SS Diesel Supplies, can any vouch for the quality of their products? are there any problems with the remanufactered pumps supplied by SS Diesel.
Remember guys I am in Australia and the nearest pump shop that can look at the pump is about 3000 Km away.
Also the PCM's offered by SS Diesel come standard, +40 & +80hp. I think I am more interrested in fuel economy over power, does anyone know which would be better the standard or the +40hp?
Any help appreciated.

[noelb]

Greg,

When you cleared the TDCO from the PCM did you check that the value was "zero" in the enhanced data.

Try clearing again. Starting up and see if the value has been cleared in the enhanced data screen. The PCM will not relearn the value if it still has one.

If all goes to plan I will have time tomorrow I'll hook up and check the procedure for you with the car-code software. Once I have it written down, I will get it to you.

Cheers

Noel

[noelb]

Greg,

Here is the procedure to command TCDOLearn

run OBD-2 Carcode software.

Connect to vehicle & click the "TEST" tab

Click "Enhance" (at the top) then Click "Enable"

Select "GM" then Select your engine configuration from the menu

Click on "TDC learn" to highlight it then Click "Enable" to command learn procedure (engine must be over 170 f)

If you wish to view the TDCO figure at the same time do the following prior to commanding TDCO

Click "Data" tab

Highlight "Possible" and click "SEND"

Highlight "TDCO" and Click "SEND" (this will then monitor only the TDCO on a realtime basis)

Move this box to one side and move the Test box to the other side and you will be able to view View the realtime TDCO and command a TDCO learn from the test screen.

NOTE:-
If when you "Enable" the Test screen you get no options it may be that the engine configuration you have selected does not match the one you have. Double check that your configuration is definately L56. To do this Click the "INFO" tab click "Enhance" (from the top) Click "REQUEST". This will request your VIN from the PCM and you will notice your vehicle configuration will show up in the "blue bar" on the top of the OBD-2 window. If still no luck you may want to Email Alex at Tech support support@obd-2.com (just checked his website - unfortunately it appears no Tech Support until after Sept 12 as he is on Holidays.)

[glivingstone]

Thanks for your help Noel, still trying to understand the CarCode, will contact Alex re: enhanced tests for L56 when he gets back.
Anyway it's all good news at the moment, I was able to track down a secondhand PCM from Yukon Enterprises in Melbourne and guess what? Plugged it in and all the problems went away. No more symptoms and the TDCO is now -0.4
For all those who have been following this drama thanks for your help.

[noelb]

Fantastic. I'll bet your wife is happy!:) That really is good news.

Just for your info. I tried the Key on key off twiddle the foot on the accelerator thingy this afternoon. Couldn't get the TDCO to clear either.

Suppose you have a decision to make about getting perhaps getting another PCM.:D

[Robyn]

Glad to hear you got on top of the issues.
Its always nice when things come out good.
best to ya
Robyn

[glivingstone]

Greg,

When you cleared the TDCO from the PCM did you check that the value was "zero" in the enhanced data.

Try clearing again. Starting up and see if the value has been cleared in the enhanced data screen. The PCM will not relearn the value if it still has one.

If all goes to plan I will have time tomorrow I'll hook up and check the procedure for you with the car-code software. Once I have it written down, I will get it to you.

Cheers

Noel

Hi Noel, not sure what you mean by clear TDCO, how do I do this?
I cleared the trouble codes from the status page.
Cheers

[noelb]

I was just meaning the key on foot to the floor 45 sec key off for 30 secs etc. which I understood would clear the TDCO and allow the PCM to relearn a new TDCO once ECT reached 170f and RPM under 1500. (some shorten to "ko ko" key on key off.)
I tried this myself yesterday but when I checked the figure of TDCO in Enhanced data the previously learnt figure remained. There must be more to the ko ko ballet dance on the accelerator and twiddle with the ignition than we know about.

[rjwest]

My experience, occasionally the Ko-KO procedure did not reset the tdco to zero, I attributed it to a screw up on my part.

I do the ko-ko and check the tdco before I start the engine
( if I remeber right ) and 0 is present,

I wait to temps below 170 ( car code) before I start engine.
0.0 remains than changes to TDCO after 170 degrees is reached,

* I bought a Cummins, but still have the 6.5l., been awhile since I used the software.... I have not checked latest Car-code programs,,,,Assuming they still work the same..

[noelb]

rjwest,

Must be my ballet but the ko ko thingy didn't give me zeros. I am unsure what I might be doing wrong. Will try some variations and see what happens.

[Warren96]

Try doing it after the engine reaches at least 180# Some of the Robert Shaw and Prestone thermostats start to open a little early.