Need help, bought truck w/bad engine.

[dieselrealtor]

I just squeezed the trigger & bought a 2002 cc sb with an engine that had been diagnosed as "bad", don't know much else about it other than that.

Does anyone have a resource for a used replacement engine or suggestions about the possibilities of fixing the existing one.

Truck is in Colby Kansas, I will be driving out some time in the next week to trailer it back to Indy. (850 miles of blah on I-70).

The quote below is from the seller;

"The engine had pieces off of it when we recieved it that gentlemen that traded it told us that it did not run it does not turn over. You could probably salvage the pieces but the motor as a whole is shot."

Any help, suggestions, comments, snide remarks, etc are appreciated

[More Power]

Contact these guys in Ohio. Odds are they'll have what you need. :)

Stricker Auto Parts
www.strickerbros.com (http://www.strickerbros.com)
1-800-582-5405

Jim

[dieselrealtor]

Thanks MP,

they don't have anything right now.

Please email me or post if there are any haulers out there interested in trailering from Colby Ks. to Martinsville IN.

I will be buying a trailer in the next couple of days if other arangements are not made.

[D-MAX]

Check E-bay ................ 320009183576 a new ( LBZ ) Duramax Diesel with 8 only 8mi

[DmaxMaverick]

Check E-bay ................ 320009183576 a new ( LBZ ) Duramax Diesel with 8 only 8mi

Wow! A little pricey, but well worth it compared to actual replacement value of all parts included. An ideal drop-in for a conversion or replacement. Sweet.

[dieselrealtor]

Can someone tell me what would be involved in converting from an LB7 to this LBZ or an LLY? I saw them when I was looking but ruled it out because I thought it would not work.

[DmaxMaverick]

It would be a minor undertaking (comparitively speaking), as long as you have all the electronics on hand.

The 2003 and later models have multiplexed electrical systems, so you will have some conversion there, but very do-able.

[dieselrealtor]

got the truck home last night, after charging the batteries, it cranks but no start.

Has the following codes;

1. po090 fuel pressure regulator control circuit
2. po700 trans control system malfunction
3. po1800 no dtc definition found

Can anyone tell me which of these are normal codes with the engine off? (#3?)

I am going to be doing compression tests, what is the acceptable range of compression on the LB7?

Thanks.

[DmaxMaverick]

The no start could be simple as air in the fuel system. Ensure you have fuel up to the pump, and a clean filter. Pump up the primer until hard, and it should cure this. If the problem remains, it sounds electrical. The FPR may not have a good connection. #2 should not effect starting at all. #3 is not a valid DTC. Typo? Low battery voltage can cause a no start, even though it seems to crank OK.

Compression should be in the 450 PSI neighborhood for a new(er) engine. More importantly, the differential between cylinders should be within 10%. Engine should be warm (if possible), and use NO oil, like you might with a gasser. Pull all glow plugs before the test. "Puff" all cylinders the same amount for an accurate test. No more than 6.


On edit:
Are you sure the #3 code is a P code? If it is U1800, we have a diagnostic procedure. May be a simple as the FICM fuse.

[dieselrealtor]

The no start could be simple as air in the fuel system. Ensure you have fuel up to the pump, and a clean filter. Pump up the primer until hard, and it should cure this.

I presume the primer is the plunger at the top of the fuel filter, I pumped for about 2 minutes, it never did get "firm", but did tighten up.

Fuel squirted out of the bleeder screw when I loosened it up after pumping.

How firm should it get?
& about how long should that take?

[DmaxMaverick]

2 minutes of pumping should have done it, without a doubt. Anywhere from 10 to 50 pumps, depending on the "feel" of the button. Yes, it's the plunger on top of the filter ass'y.

So....Which code was it? P, or U?

If....
The engine cranks over, and doesn't sound like a can of marbles, you may have a simple fix for a "blown" engine. I can't imagine why someone would condemn a Duramax w/o some obvious failed parts....Like a sump full of metal, etc.

[dieselrealtor]

So....Which code was it? P, or U?


You are correct, it is a U1800 code.

It doesn't grind or make ominous noises while cranking.

The only info that I have been able to get so far is that it died while driving, he (previous owner) took it to a GM dealer, they asked him if he was running a chip or programmer, he answered yes, they then told him that the engine was shot & it would at the very least need new pistons. (???)

I am going to the Harbor Freight palace today or tomorrow to pick up a compression tester, hope it has the adapters for this engine.

[DmaxMaverick]

OK

Now, with the P090 and U1800, that narrows the fuel delivery down to an electrical problem. It's very likely, if a power adder box, like Edge, was used, the may be a bent or non engaging pin on the connector. Very common for box users. Sometimes when the box is connected, the pin(s) get pushed out of the connector. Pull the connector apart and check all the pins to ensure they are all protruding the same length and none are bent. Also, check the connection at the FICM and the FICM fuse (might as well check all the fuses). If there was a hole in a piston, you would have considerable puffing from the crankcase vent tube, even while cranking. It'll be pretty noisy. While not common, some of the early FPR's (Fuel Pressure Regulators) have failed and caused a no start situation. The FPR is relatively inexpensive and easy to replace. Another possibility (although less likely) would be the fuel rail pressure sensor. Could be just unplugged. On these engines, if a sensor or regulator falls out of spec, the engine will either limp, or shut down. In any condition above, the P090 and U1800 code will be set.

While compression tests are very informative for many reasons, I think you'll find the values at least enough to fire. This won't explain why it isn't starting. As far as testers go, I don't know if they will have an adapter to fit. Ultimately, you can modify a glow plug to fit a threaded tester. I suggest getting a rubber cone type. Just push the fitting against the hole (strong wrist suggested) and have someone else crank. In any case, you'll need a gage that goes to at least 500 PSI.

I suggest confirming a healthy electrical system (voltage and all connections), then we can go over the diagnostic steps, which are very descriptive and straight forward. Not a lot of grey area. If necessary, I can send you some info via email, as some of is copyrighted, and can't be posted here. PM ore email me with your email address.

IMO, it's pretty stupid for a dealer to assume pistons just because an aftermarket power adder is used. Unfortunately, the assumption is very common with dealers that don't want to work with a customer. While torched pistons have happened with some devices, it isn't as common as many dealers claim.

[dieselrealtor]

I have checked all the fuses & connections to everything except the accessories, they all look good, no bent or loose pins.

I have around 13.5v at the fuses, both sides.

This truck has a production date of 5/02.

Please forgive my ignorance, what is the FICM, fuel injection control module?
Is it the box located on the passengers side of the engine?

one thing to add, I erased the codes, they did not come back after cranking again.

[DmaxMaverick]

Correct. FICM=Fuel Injection Control Module

In the absence of codes, and good voltage, connections, fuses, etc, it should fire if it's getting fuel. I still think the reason points back to fuel delivery. When pumping the primer, there should be a point where the pump gets so hard you can hardly depress it. If that's not happening (like you said it didn't before), there has to be a huge cushion of air between the filter and HP pump. I suggest at this point to install a fuel lift pump to supply a constant volume of fuel while cranking, and watch for obvious leaks. These fuel systems are very tolerant of air, but there has to be a condition where too much air will prevent running. Could be an air leak in the supply line, or not enough fuel in the tank. You could try pulling the return line loose near the tank and see just what's coming back. If you get a solid stream of fuel, the problem is electrical. If you get very little fuel and lots of air, or foamy fuel, the problem is in the supply end. If there's something out of wack with the electronics, it should set a DTC. Also, it could be the previous codes were from the shut down while driving. Perhaps something happened to the fuel system that took away the fuel supply, like a serious air leak. This has happened before on other trucks.

Stay with it. There has to be a simple solution, somewhere.

[dieselrealtor]

I pulled the return line where it goes into the cooler, in around 10-15 seconds of cranking I believe it produced no more than 4-6 ounces at the most. The stream was about half the size of the I D of the line, but there was no air & no bubbles in the stream. On a gasser it is definitely not enough but I am still relatively new to diesels.

What is the minimum acceptable delivery?

[dieselrealtor]

Good News:
the cheap $20 compression tester at Harbor Freight has an adapter that works in the Duramax, it is about an inch to inch & a half shorter than the glow plug.

BAD NEWS;
only about 140psi of compression across the board.

I think I will continue this on a new post.

[DmaxMaverick]

Something wrong with that gage, adapter, or the procedure. Even on a really bad day, it would be well above 200, and certainly not all cylinders. Were all about the same? If something went catastrophically wrong, all cylinders certainly would be the same. Are you sure the numbers aren't other than PSI? Like BAR? I suggest checking the gage against a known source of pressure, like an air compressor.

[dieselrealtor]

I went out & checked it against my compressor this morning, it is within 10psi of the compressor gauge.

The 5 cylinders I checked were all about 140psi.

Should I check the rest?

[DmaxMaverick]

I suggest doing the rest. It doesn't make sense that all the cylinders are 140. Sheared cam or crank key? The cam is gear driven, and has several "neutral" locations on the rotation (no valve engagement). The problem would certainly have to be something common to all cylinders. That leaves only the valve train and the crank, or both head gaskets blew in the same way, at the same time, on all cylinders (not very likely). If the crank were broken, your results would have been 0 on at least one cylinder.

Hmmmm

[dieselrealtor]

I bit the bullet & took it off the trailer & put it in the garage.

Compression results;

(assuming driver side front is #1, back & forth to #8 passenger side rear).

#1 170
#2 180
#3 120
#4 220
#5 140
#6 180
#7 140
#8 110

I noticed when I started they were lower than the other day & the batteries seemed weak, I put the charger on for an hour before I started.

Valve timing does sound plausable, if no other suggestions, I will start taking the front of the engine down in the next couple of days.

[dieselrealtor]

I started a new post to continue this;

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=23914