View Full Version : Turbocharger
ronniejoe
07-10-2006, 07:39
The game is on. The experimental turbo is in and operational...
DA BIG ONE
07-10-2006, 10:18
Now I'm on the edge of my seat for this one.
How about some teasers? You know to get our blood flowing and such......
MTTwister
07-10-2006, 15:39
If it is, I'm sure it's probably really big cojones
Patrick m.
07-10-2006, 15:53
this is what i have been waiting for, do tell.
dieseldummy
07-10-2006, 16:45
The game has been on for years... you're just playing catch up...
moondoggie
07-10-2006, 17:07
Good Day!
Any chance you'll be running it on JK's dyno? I'd kinda like to be there if thatt's OK...
Blessings!
TurboDiverArt
07-10-2006, 19:56
Dying to know. Please do tell. I just hope it adapts easily and will actually pull all the way up to 3500 RPM's. Is that asking too much?
Art.
More Power
07-10-2006, 20:23
As I mentioned to rj while at the Rendezvous, if a performance oriented 6.5 could run to 3500 rpm under full load for 30 seconds without exceeding 1300 degrees EGT, it'll surprise a lot of people. It's all dependent on boost pressure, drive pressure, and turbocharger efficiency.... ;) The GM-8 can't do it.
Jim
This tool has probably been posted here before, but in any case, it will be interesting to see how close the RH recommended turbo specifications for the 6.5 comes to the secret turbocharger specifications.
Garrett GT25 w/ .82 turbine housing (.63 if you cut the boost or rpms)
http://www.turbofast.com.au/TFmatch.html
why on earth would you need to change turbo's, just up the boost. Boost is boost............
More Power
07-11-2006, 16:05
Theoretical Turbo #1 generates 20 psi boost pressure at 20 psi drive pressure.
Theoretical Turbo #2 generates 20 psi boost pressure at 40 psi drive pressure
(drive pressure is the exhaust backpressure that is a result of driving the turbine).
Boost pressures are identical between #1 & #2. But, which will produce higher EGT's? Which will allow more engine power?
The GM-x series of turbos are closer to the #2 mentioned here, which chokes the engine at high power levels & rpms. The theoretical ideal is a 1:1 ratio of boost to drive pressure.
Turbo efficiency is also a big factor. In short, "turbo efficiency" is a measurement of temperature increase of the boosted air. A more efficient turbo will produce a lower temperature increase. This has more to do with the design of the compressor housing & impeller, which are designed for a particular turbine shaft rpm. As a rule of thumb, a 10 degree increase in air temp reduces the engine's output by roughly 1 horsepower. :)
Jim
Patrick m.
07-11-2006, 17:30
why on earth would you need to change turbo's, just up the boost. Boost is boost............
grape, come on! of all the arguments ive watched, and chuckled at, you have to understand what More Power just wrote.
I know nothing about turbos except what i have personally experienced, which is: the GM-8 will turn out the pressure; about 20 psi, but a Garrett i have (in fact two of them) produce more power at less boost pressure than the GM-8! FACT! seat of the pants dyno. Ben there, done that!
anyone who wants proof need only set it up with J.K. and pay for dyno time, im sure he will agree with me on this one. prolly even has such an event on paper already.
so come on R.J.! lets see what you came up with.
TurboDiverArt
07-11-2006, 19:04
As I mentioned to rj while at the Rendezvous, if a performance oriented 6.5 could run to 3500 rpm under full load for 30 seconds without exceeding 1300 degrees EGT, it'll surprise a lot of people. It's all dependent on boost pressure, drive pressure, and turbocharger efficiency.... ;) The GM-8 can't do it.
Jim
I agree with ya there. The turbo falls on it's face above 3000. I don't run the power or boost that you guys do. I'll be happy for the damn thing to efficiently put out 10 psi up to 3400 intercooled.
Art.
More Power
07-11-2006, 21:08
The 30 seconds I was referring to was in a Pull-Off situation.
Back in 1999 when I ran the Project 6.5 in the first Pull-Off, the truck ran to 52 mph in second gear at the half mile point before I had to back out of it due to high EGT's. I then shifted into 3rd gear (direct), and ran the rest of the way to the mile marker, but lost 4 mph - ending with a 48-mph posting at the mile. If I'd been able to run full pedal in 2nd gear (governed at 3800), it would have squeaked by the prototype Duramax (it did 55 IIRC).
The turbocharger couldn't flow enough at those rpms and load.
Jim
PS - The automatic 1999 Dodge Cummins managed 40-mph that same evening. :D
john8662
07-11-2006, 21:21
This goes hand in hand with the 3600 RPM gov that the IP's are set for, well speaking DB2 of course, didn't try it with the DS4, but I suspect it the same.
I understand where Grape is heading with that comment, a little irony eh?
Dual overhead chrome reversed propane injected nitrous sniffing fast spooling
Fully tow rated to 4 grand<?<?<?<? ?? :0)
Sounds good though. Biggy with the 6.5 has always been the heat issue do tell.
Robyn sits anxiously awaiting the next installment!!
Has anyone done a twin turbo setup in a street truck??
DA BIG ONE
07-12-2006, 04:25
Has anyone done a twin turbo setup in a street truck??
Somewhere in europe a 6.2 was done and he is a diesel page member, forgot his name though.
DA BIG ONE
07-12-2006, 04:29
Pulled this story off of web;
http://www.turbomaster.info/eng/bulletins.php?id=18
ronniejoe
07-12-2006, 05:53
Guys, Grape was just taking a jab at me...
This has been a longstanding sarcastic line that he takes with me. Funny thing is, he's completely mischaractarized what I said in the first place to start the thing and his sarcasm makes no sense.:D For sarcasm to work, there has to be an element of truth in it.;)
He doesn't bother me, so don't let him bother you.:)
moondoggie
07-12-2006, 11:14
Good Day!
Just remember, RJ, when you get to The Hill, your footfeed is electronic - nothing gained by pushing it through the floor, eh? ;)
No dyno runs 1st?
Blessings!
(signature in previous post)
dieseldummy
07-12-2006, 17:25
Unless one has a HO injection pump they likely won't be setting any records up the hill...
moondoggie
07-13-2006, 07:44
Good Day!
"Unless one has a HO injection pump they likely won't be setting any records up the hill..." You ever met Ron? If it'll set a record, he'll block the footfeed & get out & push!!!!! :eek:
Blessings!
(signature in previous post)
DA BIG ONE
07-13-2006, 08:11
Well, those with hi pops will have an edge............
Man, if there was a way to cool down things a DB4 would be the trick.
john8662
07-13-2006, 13:16
Well, those with hi pops will have an edge............
Man, if there was a way to cool down things a DB4 would be the trick.
You'd think that a DS4 and a DB4 would do about the same right? After all they BOTH have 4 plungers...
What does this have to do with Turbo's, NOTHING! cheers ;)
i'm still confused at why a different turbo is needed, after all the only deciding factor in how much air goes through an engine in dieselpage land is cubic inches and rpm alone.......lol.
TurboDiverArt
07-13-2006, 21:39
i'm still confused at why a different turbo is needed, after all the only deciding factor in how much air goes through an engine in dieselpage land is cubic inches and rpm alone.......lol.
You are correct, the key is go “though” an engine. If your turbo is working too hard the outlet temperatures will rise. Hotter air at pressure has less O2 than cooler air at the same pressure. Also, when you’re over working your turbo you incur excessive backpressure in the exhaust manifolds. If you have higher pressure pre-turbo in the exhaust manifold it’s harder to get the spent exhaust out of the cylinders. This leaves more residual, which makes less room for the new air charge. In addition, this leaves heat in the cylinder. This heat hurts performance and can cause carnage. Yes you need heat for ignition and power but we are talking about excessive heat.
People sometimes refer to a turbo as “free power”. It’s not free, there are costs. Higher than ambient intake charge temperatures as well as back pressure. If you know engines, you want cool intake temps and no exhaust backpressure in the headers. In fact you want a vacuum in the headers. This is why they make step headers, to create a vacuum and help suck exhaust out. With a turbo, your inlet temperatures are always above ambient (except with a water cooler) and you will always have backpressure. A more efficient turbo matched to your setup will help decrease these introduced negatives.
If “pressure is pressure”, why does the introduction of an intercooler to our trucks increase performance? I was running 12 psi without the intercooler (to help cool EGT’s). I now run an intercooler and 10 psi of boost. My truck has better performance (once hot) with the cooler 10-psi charge than it did with heated 12 psi charge.
Does this clear it up some?
Art.
are you guys actually taking my posts before this one serious..........?
And i've probably bought more $3800 sets of inconnel step headers than anyone on this site, so yes you could say i'm somewhat informed on how and why headers work. I've also mounted and dismounted mid frame thumper sized turbochargers from cart cars before the split back in '97 ( I wasn't 20 years old yet)..............i did telemetry on a certain car that one the 500 back in '99. I set air gap base and counter in the clutch on a pro stock truck that qualified 2nd at indy in 2000 with jenkins engines and the short little guy next to me the whole time. In 2004 i was the youngest team owner in the Nascar Craftsman truck series. With all the performance experts here tell me where you've raced, we've probably crossed paths a time or two.
not one time in the whole CFM argument did anyone bring up that the camshaft has just a tad bit to do with how much air goes through an engine, no matter if its 358 inches or 638 inches, or going through the lights at 10200.
everybody here is an expert, i'm not yet 30 and i've done these things in professional motorsports.............along with drive some. I guess i'll leave you guys to your world.
DA BIG ONE
07-14-2006, 02:26
.
not one time in the whole CFM argument did anyone bring up that the camshaft has just a tad bit to do with how much air goes through an engine, no matter if its 358 inches or 638 inches, or going through the lights at 10200.
everybody here is an expert, i'm not yet 30 and i've done these things in professional motorsports.............along with drive some. I guess i'll leave you guys to your world.
Yep, I remember a bumpstick that I used from a n/a gasser in a 2.3 turbo build, I could not believe the additional performance just from changeout, that is until the valve train failed. So not being a professional anything other than a solder "COIN-OPS" judging from my little project above I can say I know a little about bumpsticks being a key factor in the equation......
TurboDiverArt
07-14-2006, 05:52
are you guys actually taking my posts before this one serious..........?
I took your post seriously. Didn
DA BIG ONE
07-14-2006, 09:49
So not being a professional anything other than a solder
Boy, oh boy, my sometimers has struck again, so insert "soldier" in that spot.
Patrick m.
07-14-2006, 17:05
one problem here, Grape i was allways one of those who took up for you. ....said you had a right and an obligation to give your opinion which in most cases, i agreed with you.
Now you worked on an Indy car crew, wreched on a Top Fuel car(?) and own a Nascar Truck Team and you are not even 30 years old!
WHY THE HE@@ ARE YOU F$%^ING WITH A 6.5L TRUCK?
"sniff sniff......i smell BULL SH@T!
In fact i guess ill see you this weekend at Nashville Superspeedway!
It will be easy to find me as i drive a 6.5L CHEVROLET TRUCK!
one problem here, Grape i was allways one of those who took up for you. ....said you had a right and an obligation to give your opinion which in most cases, i agreed with you.
Now you worked on an Indy car crew, wreched on a Top Fuel car(?) and own a Nascar Truck Team and you are not even 30 years old!
WHY THE HE@@ ARE YOU F$%^ING WITH A 6.5L TRUCK?
"sniff sniff......i smell BULL SH@T!
In fact i guess ill see you this weekend at Nashville Superspeedway!
It will be easy to find me as i drive a 6.5L CHEVROLET TRUCK!
i'm a very lucky person to know the right people.
http://www.truckseries.com/2004/04r21-Texas/04r21_entrylist.htm
check the name of the owner on the 35 truck.........if it's still not up to your standards I'll try harder for you
DA BIG ONE
07-15-2006, 05:04
i'm a very lucky person to know the right people.
http://www.truckseries.com/2004/04r21-Texas/04r21_entrylist.htm
check the name of the owner on the 35 truck.........if it's still not up to your standards I'll try harder for you
We all at times, be it herein or out in the the world, get a little off track and state something that offends others, but real men get past it and move on.
You Grape, have lived what millions of others have not and can only dream of.
RJ has an impressive back ground too. I'm thinking when it's time for another 6.5 motor I'll deal with him.
Most members herein look forward to any real tips that can be used for the better performance of their 6.5's. No, the 6.5 will never be a hot rod but it does give guys like me something to tinker with when we can.
This site is one that I have not needed to don chestwaders before visiting, so I for one look forward to all + input even from a 30 year old American man like you.
moondoggie
07-16-2006, 05:36
Good Day!
"If it'll set a record, he'll block the footfeed & get out & push!!!!! :eek:" Actually, I'll bet RJ's mostly after data. If he does well, that's nice too, but right now I think he's just trying to flesh out the theory.
Sorry about dragging this back to the subject. BTW, grape & everyone else, thanks for keeping to the high road - that's one of the great things about the Page. :D
Blessings!
(signature in previous post)
ronniejoe
07-17-2006, 10:09
Unless one has a HO injection pump they likely won't be setting any records up the hill...
Well, a new record was set...without an HO pump...and not by a little. See Jim's comment towards the end of this thread (http://thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=23306).
More Power
07-17-2006, 11:27
RJ's Suburban crossed the mile marker with a 10K trailer in tow on the 6% grade 4-mph faster than the best top speed to date for a 6.5 (52-mph), which I think could have been improved on (once RJ get's his IC hose figured out :D ).
We'll expand on this in the article, but we now know that having the right turbo makes it possible to run full-pedal in 2nd gear at 3200-rpm without exceeding the 6.5 EGT limits or the engine getting too warm.... That's a really huge deal.... Good job RJ!
Also, with JK's recalibrated fan-clutch, Marty's (16gaSxS) 6.5 was able to run the mile without the excessive engine temps his truck experienced last year - with the stock fan-clutch.
All in all, it was a very good day for the 6.5!
Jim
GMC Hauler
07-17-2006, 14:21
everybody here is an expert, i'm not yet 30 and i've done these things in professional motorsports.............along with drive some. I guess i'll leave you guys to your world.
30??? Really???
I figured you to be 70 or 80, as bitter as you sound....
ronniejoe
07-17-2006, 16:18
The intercooler hose problem is a consequence of only having two days of run time on the setup before leaving for Montana. It should be easy to fix, just a bummer for gettting the best performance at the Pull-Off. That last pass was feeling pretty good, too!
dieseldummy
07-17-2006, 18:22
Teach me to doubt I guess... So do we get to hear about how the magic was made or is that one of those "propriatory" secrets?
I can't wait until RJ gets this turbo ironed out completely! My '96 may have made 25 psi with the Peninsular turbo, but there's no way it would run like Ron's did. Funny thing is, this turbo was here and waiting for me to get after it for a few years. Just before the Rendezvous I remembered to dig it out and take it to Ron. He picked it up and ran with it in just a couple of short weeks. Now just a bit of fine tuning.
Congrats again Ron!
ronniejoe
07-17-2006, 21:05
It was very fortunate that Kennedy had a specimin close to what I had settled on from my calculations. This wouldn't have come together in time for the Pull-Off otherwise. Thanks, John.
There are some changes that still must happen, but this was a great first stab! This thing pulls hard all the way to 3600 rpm...With 20 psi...More to come!
Looking back, my request when I ordered it was a turbo that could move enough air to make about 20 psi. I also suggested that the exhaust side could be set a bit "loose" so as not to overboost. I'm thinking that this setup is about right for a truck that tows. This of course depends on what RJ comes up with for changes and how they perform. I also think RJ needs to look seriously at air box entry area next...
moondoggie
07-18-2006, 07:31
[font=times][size=+]Good Day!
If grape is all he says he is, & I have no reason to believe otherwise, then probably he
moondoggie
07-18-2006, 07:50
Good Day!
Good Lord willing & the creek don't rise, RJ builds my next 6.5. Thanks, Ron, John, & all who keep pushing the envelope for us that can't.
Blessings!
(signature in previous post)
Cowracer
07-18-2006, 08:22
30??? Really???
I figured you to be 70 or 80, as bitter as you sound....
Yep, he is that young.
But not only is he young, but he looks like harry potter too!
Tim
[QUOTE=moondoggie][font=times][size=+]Good Day!
If grape is all he says he is, & I have no reason to believe otherwise, then probably he
[QUOTE=moondoggie][font=times][size=+]Good Day!
If grape is all he says he is, & I have no reason to believe otherwise, then probably he
DA BIG ONE
07-22-2006, 13:45
Bump, bump, bump, any late breaking, or?
ronniejoe
07-22-2006, 15:03
I am working with the manufacturer to make some changes to the turbine housing.
I built a custom exhaust elbow for it and had to do some improvisation to the inlet for the installation. It needs some improvement.
DA BIG ONE
09-21-2006, 14:08
Been out of pocket, and wonder if there are any updates, or?
DA BIG ONE
09-30-2006, 05:29
RJ, 2 months on any luck w/turbo, or?
john8662
09-30-2006, 18:20
The KD/RJ turbo is a secret. sshh...
:D
dieseldummy
10-01-2006, 17:53
Yeah, kindof like those clean room assembled engines... Maybe JK hasn't told him what it is yet...:eek:
I never thought this would be of any use but, someone asked earlier if anyone had put dual turbos on a 6.5. I cannot remember where I was reading this now (maybe I will remember - doubtful) but, a guy was building an offroad vehicle (rock crawler maybe) with maybe a 6.2 (maybe 6.5) and he chose to use dual trubos! He was building his own exhaust manifolds. If I EVER remember where this is, I will post. I had no interest at the time, sorry.
More Power
10-02-2006, 10:31
Peter Bierman's Twin Turbo project is still available in the Member Archive (http://www.thedieselpage.com/archive.htm). :)
Jim
Here is a company selling a marine twin turbo 6.5L:
http://www.65ldiesel.com/page/page/1271489.htm
DA BIG ONE
10-16-2006, 02:15
Here is a company selling a marine twin turbo 6.5L:
http://www.65ldiesel.com/page/page/1271489.htm
Marine motors generally will not be any good in road vehicles because of cooling issues. The boat has unlimited cool water flowing from the surrounding body of water, your truck, or whatever is limited to say 27 quarts. Then there is the issue of marine engines running at higher rpms........
I'm thinking low pressure compound turbocharging can give decent cooler airflow to keep egt's, iat's, and motor temps down while allowing more performance on road vehicles. But how much boost can a 6.5 take w/o copper head gaskets, or "o" ringing blk?
I understand DA, I was only showing that maybe they have an exhaust manifold for a driver side turbo. Yes marine engines are very different and have unlimited cooling potential and run at much more of a steady speed - not near as much stop and go as we "land lubbers".
Seems that with a turbo on each side you could run more boost than a single turbo and/or use 2 smaller turbos to generate the same boost with dual exhaust. That is IF, they have a turbo mount for the driver side.
DA BIG ONE
10-17-2006, 03:02
I understand DA, I was only showing that maybe they have an exhaust manifold for a driver side turbo. Yes marine engines are very different and have unlimited cooling potential and run at much more of a steady speed - not near as much stop and go as we "land lubbers".
Seems that with a turbo on each side you could run more boost than a single turbo and/or use 2 smaller turbos to generate the same boost with dual exhaust. That is IF, they have a turbo mount for the driver side.
Making a manifold for drivers side would be easiest using log type design. As for turbos your looking at very small ones if you want to stay out of surge lines "gas turbos just don't cut it" you need units designed for diesel applications and about 3,500 rpm's.
I'm still thinking compound turbocharging run at low boost would yield higher boost at cooler temps. A small turbo blowing through chargecooler into a larger turbo, then again through another chargecooler, back into smaller turbo then motor.
DA BIG ONE
10-25-2006, 03:56
How about an update on turbo research?
This has been a very interesting thread.
I will toss in my two cents worth.
My time in the field has taught me many things, the one lesson I have learned well is that there is always someone out there that has more money and time to throw at any given project.
Dad always said when we were racing that the cubic dollar always wins.
Well not always me thinks but having the $$$ helps the chances some for sure.
As far as the 6.5 I am real happy to have a reliable rig that goes down the road when I need and is reasonably relaible and gets good mileage.
The work that RJ and John Kennedy and many others have done is marvelous and is worthy of praise many times over.
I find the caustic jabs from time to time to be about what is normal when you stick a bunch of troops together and strike up a conversation.
As far as turbo tech goes I understand a couple things well, one if you compress air it gets hot and hot air is less dense and does not make as much HP as cold dense air.
The back pressure isue is a force to be dealt with for sure.
The big diesels (cat) have the turbos mounted right on the manifold along the side of the engine and then the exhaust pipes are huge and split into two generally.
Geez my Star has a 5 inch down pipe that feeds into two 5 inch stacks.
There is little if any back pressure on that side of the system. The pressure in the manifold upstream of the turbo I am not sure about.
My 500 Cat will peak at 30 psi under load, a tad more on a cold wet day.
EGT under a hard pull with the sucker loaded up to 105,500 will never get over 700F This is just post of the turbo about 6 inches.
The air inlet system is huge too with two nelson filters dumping into a 6 inch feed pipe that connects to the turbo inlet.
There are no restrictions anywhere in either in or out. The sucker makes power by the metric buttload and runs cool doing it.
The after cooler is huge too and the inlet air temp is about 10F over ambient most of the time. During hot weather I can help this by running the propeller (fan) in manual mode so its running all the time and this will cool things better. (Also makes the AC system run cooler)
Reading back on the posts I see some discussion about cam shaft design.
Well a huffed engine needs a whole different cam design so as to benefit from the huffer.
An N/A engine will use a high lift long duration cam to run at high rpms.
The exhaust system needs to be such that it will "vacuum" the cylinders out and assist the intake system in filling the cylinder with a new charge.
The advent of headers for street machines advanced the science to a great degree.
The whole package is important with a cam, head design, exhaust design and intake manifold on an N/A engine. Now keep in mind every application and the desired RPM and torque range all mean different specs on everything.
A turboed engine needs a cam that gets the valves open and allows the pressure in the intake to scavenge the cylinder clean. A long duration cam is not the answer on our 6.5 engines, the flow would be wasted other than maybe some cooling effect on the valves.
Back in my boat race days running blown gas flat bottoms we ran a 427 Chevy for a long time with a 6-71 huffer on top with two 1150 holleys on that.
The cams we ran were not all that much bigger than a stock streeter.
Higher lift but fairly conservative duration. The valves were bigger to allow for the higher RPM's and to flow better. We ran the blower 40% over crank speed and generally peaked the RPM's at around 9000.
We tried a few times with different props to take the little rat up into the 10-11000 rpm range but this proved to be costly and our number of reliable runs was far too few for our limited budgit.
Back to the 6.5
The 6.5 has some very limiting factors related to the thermo dynamic stress the engine has to deal with under high boost conditions. The addition of a good air to air aftercooler is surely a step in the right direction.
A set of custom headers that would allow better flow at lower retained pressure and heat would definately be a step in the right direction . BUT the truck scene does not really allow room enough to do much.
The engineers were looking at a package that was going to be useful to the masses, with relaibilty and longevity.
Basically they acheived that. (We wont discuss the other problems here)
We are as a group looking to push the envelope beyond what the factory ever envisioned of their products potential.
The aftermarket always comes along and makes the mouse kick the elephants Butt.
What many of you folks have done with your tinkering is nothing short of wonderful. The outback garage folks as I will call us have been doing this since the Model T days. We will be doing it untill we die.
There is no real reason to ever doubt the ideas of anyone, bottom line is, if they dont work the one trying it will soon discover that "IT DID'NT WORK" and move on.
We have a youngster in here that has had some breaks and been at the right place at the right time and said the right things.
Young folks always feel they have to prove themselves and when the old farts growl the pissing match is on. This has been and always will be.
My dad let me run with a long leash most of the time and let me make a fool of myself many times.
Thanks dad, Its been a wonderful life of learning and meeting new people and ideas.
I have had an uphill battle all my life, a girl in the racing business back in the late 70's was not all that usual. Running the shop and our other business was tough at times too with the customers expecting to talk to my father and when he would refer them to me they just had a tough time.
Enough said.
To Grape
Take a deep breath relax and just let time progress as it will.
You cant get on top of the pile by force you will get there by the deeds you do and the attitude you display.
A suttle attitude of calm and understanding will get you there in due time.
Im 54 now and still look to the future for something that can challenge me and I always find it.
Maybe the female veiwpoint is enough different to make it work I dont know but I do know that ones credibility can prosper from being subtle rather than
outrageously agressive.
My best to all of my friends here
Robyn
restoguy
12-21-2006, 13:55
Still no news here? Or am I missing something? I'm getting ready to put my 18:1 together and I want to know what I'm doing for a turbo!
ronniejoe
12-21-2006, 14:36
Things are moving again on the turbo front. I've been running this one under all sorts of conditions and loads and really like what it is giving me. It is a modified Holset. I've been working with their engineering folks to fine tune this thing for the 6.5. I have a new turbine housing coming and need to make another exhaust elbow. I've attached a shot of it on the truck to this post.
Right now, I'm running the stock airbox. Some of my data tells me that it isn't fully up to the task of what this thing can flow at 3600 rpm and 23+ psi boost. I'm looking into improved air inlets and airboxes.
The plan is to put this together as a complete kit and get it to the market. Hopefully early next year.
The delay is partly due to the fact that I coach football in the fall. I am the head coach at one of the middle schools in town and I am the head coach of my youngest son's youth league team. That coupled with trying to make a living had me heavily occupied throughout the fall. This project went onto the back burner.
On the football front, my youngest son's team went 8-2 and lost in the semifinals of the playoffs. My middle son is on the middle school team that I coach. They went 8-0-1 and won the inagural Junior Mid-State Conference Championship and beat our cross town rival 22-0 to do it.
Football, coupled with my consulting business, kept me occupied. I'm now getting caught back up and hope to finish this up soon.
dieseldummy
12-21-2006, 18:14
HX-35/40 hybrid w/14cm wastegated housing?? Just a guess...
ronniejoe
12-21-2006, 19:19
No.........
All experts polled have the HX 35 as being too small. This setup of Ron's works very well. I'm anxious to see the complete kit release...
GMC Hauler
12-22-2006, 18:47
Meow........
john8662
12-22-2006, 20:50
At the request of the post originator this thread has been edited.
The post by dieseldummy was out of line and will not be tolerated.
My quotation of that post was not a direct attack of RJ nor of JK, the work displayed with the turbocharger research is much appreciated by the 6.5 community. But, let's remember to keep this as non-commercial as possible.
Message sent to RJ
Thanks!
J
Boys and girls:
Let's try and keep this civil. To that end,
No personal attacks
And let's try not to be so darned "sensitive". Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are calling you an idiot!
And just because you think they are, doesn't mean it's OK to call them something in return!
Neutral corners, gloves back on.
dieseldummy
12-28-2006, 20:35
Oh, nothing... Just the typical RJ/JK stuff.:rolleyes:
restoguy
12-28-2006, 22:37
Any idea about what this 'kit' will cost? I'm all for it, and I think that you should get something for your time and effort, but I'm also on a limited budget. I may end up with something like a PS turbo or my own concoction for a while if it's too pricey.
It's like Christmas, except I don't know which day santa is coming!
Oh, nothing... Just the typical RJ/JK stuff.:rolleyes:
How the heck did I get brought into this? I thought my comments were simple, to the point and directed at nobody...
[QUOTE=TurboDiverArt]
People sometimes refer to a turbo as
I never thought this would be of any use but, someone asked earlier if anyone had put dual turbos on a 6.5. I cannot remember where I was reading this now (maybe I will remember - doubtful) but, a guy was building an offroad vehicle (rock crawler maybe) with maybe a 6.2 (maybe 6.5) and he chose to use dual trubos! He was building his own exhaust manifolds. If I EVER remember where this is, I will post. I had no interest at the time, sorry.
My off-roading experience consists of everything but sand dunes (well, outside of a trip taken 16 years ago while in the army LOL) and TV-style mud-bogging, and I'd choose an NA engine for a trail rig. You're going to be at idle or just off 95% of the time and turbos really don't do anything that low. The few times you do need to raise the RPM an NA 6.2l will produce all the power you need. BTDT with 35.3:1 crawl ratio humvees grossing about 13K with trailer (don't know the converter ratio but I'd guess 2:1), so I know an NA 6.2l will definitely be more than enough for a much lighter Jeep, Blazer, Scout, etc, with 6.5:1 granny, Dana 300 or NP208, and 4.10s or 4.56s.
More Power
12-29-2006, 11:51
The twin turbo project you mentioned is still available in the 6.2/6.5 Member Archive. See link below. :)
Personalities aside, RJ's Suburban performed the best of any 6.5 we've yet run on the hill. If there wasn't a problem with IC hoses popping off, another run may have even improved on that. The best part was Ron was able to stay in it without exceeding a reasonable exhaust and engine temperature. Having the right turbocharger makes a big difference.
Jim
TurboDiverArt
12-29-2006, 16:09
Was readingthrough this thread since it got bumped, and saw this comment. I think the idea "free power" from a turbo came about in comparison to the enormous amount of power eaten up by a supercharger. IIRC the big blowers can take up to half their power output straight off the crank. A turbocharger has almost no parasitic effect on the engine, just some backpressure that can almost be completely done away with by installing a free-flowing exhaust.
You're going to have pre turbo pressure, a free flowing exhaust only solves the post turbo backpressure. If you have totally free flowing headers such that there is little to no header backpressure then you'll spool and accelerate like crap until up to operating boost. There are always trade off. Turbo's are great, I've raced them for years, there are trade-off's. It
The twin turbo project you mentioned is still available in the 6.2/6.5 Member Archive. See link below. :)
Personalities aside, RJ's Suburban performed the best of any 6.5 we've yet run on the hill. If there wasn't a problem with IC hoses popping off, another run may have even improved on that. The best part was Ron was able to stay in it without exceeding a reasonable exhaust and engine temperature. Having the right turbocharger makes a big difference.
Jim
Add to that we have made very appreciable gains in the performance of his tuning since then! ;)
watahyahknow
12-30-2006, 17:01
i like this tread .... the part with the rurbo itself atleast i keep an eye on it
RJ, probably a bit early, but, any thoughts using your new turbo on an ICed hi compression engine? Say running 12-15 PSI towing with 83mm3 of fuel?
I don't plan on going into my engine anytime soon, but would like to improve towing at full power.
Thanks
ronniejoe
01-13-2007, 21:11
I believe, based on my experience with it, that you will see significantly lower EGT and improved power up to 3600 rpm.
I believe, based on my experience with it, that you will see significantly lower EGT and improved power up to 3600 rpm.
When will I be able to order a kit? :D
DA BIG ONE
02-23-2007, 05:21
Any late breaking?
ronniejoe
02-23-2007, 05:39
Things are moving, but slowly. The new turbine housing is here and I expect a compressor wheel soon. Once I've run those and finished arrangements on some of the parts to adapt, it will be ready. I will let you all know.
WRB Diesel
02-23-2007, 08:19
Food for thought, catching up on this thread and heard some fun stuff about twin turbos. Ran into a guy yesterday who builds cams, I told him about my project and he was telling me about some military 6.5's he supplies cams for. They are regular suppliers to build 6.5 for the special forces units(Rangers and Delta Force) here on Fort Lewis. They have a twin turbo setup that produces on average between 1100 and 1200 HP. I didn't have time to hit him up for further informtion but will definetey be doing some more research. A couple of guys on my rugby team a very important figures on Fort Lewis and very involved in the special forces training. Maybe just mabye I can get myself on base or somewhere I can find out some more information on these things.
watahyahknow
02-23-2007, 08:24
this would make the buildup a lot eazier .
just thinking wat would happen if the militairy dumps these trucks for civilians to buy them .........people not verry technical would be in for a suprise when they expect a normall diesel truck and floor it
DA BIG ONE
02-23-2007, 10:30
The H1 has a cooling problem as it is in it's drivetrain tunnel not designed for hi-po setups much less anything just over stock. 1,000/1,200 dual turbos sounds like a fish tale especially since there is "no way" to cool such a power plant in a humbug.......
Knowing well the only high hp/tq 6.5's that hold up are in marine applications where the ocean, river, or wharever is the heat sink.........
It would be nice, but I can't see a 6.5 doing it....
DA BIG ONE
08-08-2007, 03:27
RJ any late breaking, or?
TurboDiverArt
08-08-2007, 03:39
He likes teasing us!!:D
micky_blue
08-08-2007, 07:05
I am very curious about a possible kit. I just got bought a 93 long block and am picking it up in kentucky tomorrow. With this I am planning on 18:1 kennedy psitons, scat crank and possibly worked amg heads if the stock ones are shot, and I think they are.
please keep us updated.
micky
BigDiesel
02-19-2009, 02:51
Any update to this?
RJ, I see that the turbos have made it to your website. You have a nice graphic of the flow of your turbo. I am wondering if you have run the new turbo setup on the dyno? I am curious to see how a turbo supplying flow over the full rpm range affects the torque curve. Correct me if I am wrong. IIRC 1800 is about where stock torque peaks and this is also about where the little GM turbo starts petering out, no? So I would love to see how your new turbo changes the curve for these engines.
bump........................
TurboDiverArt
02-25-2012, 07:35
Did anything ever come of this regarding being available to the public? Its' been so long since I've driven my truck without a trailer behind it that I forgot that although my stock 250K mile turbo produces 14 PSI of intercooled boost with the trailer behind it, it only really produces about 8-9 sustained without a load. Don't know if the turbo is just old or that's all it'll even produce without a load.
a5150nut
02-25-2012, 13:25
Did anything ever come of this regarding being available to the public? Its' been so long since I've driven my truck without a trailer behind it that I forgot that although my stock 250K mile turbo produces 14 PSI of intercooled boost with the trailer behind it, it only really produces about 8-9 sustained without a load. Don't know if the turbo is just old or that's all it'll even produce without a load.
Boost is not constant. It is increased by load put on engine.
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