TDC Offset and Crankshaft sensor

[perryvr]

I was wondering If you replace the crankshaft sensor and do not perform the "TDC Offset Program Procedure" as instructed by the GM Diesel Supplement service manual, what will the truck run like?

Here is my situation:

I just finished installing new heads, glow plugs, injectors, triple gauge package, 4" exhaust, cooling upgrade, new radiator, SS air intake.

Got truck started...it idles very rough and belches black smoke...it does not clear up....just idles and has a steady stream of black smoke...I have not driven it yet, but have let it idle up to operating temp and then cooled back down...I did not want to take it down the road until problem is solved.

During all of this work, I replaced: both cooling sensors, AIT sensor, baro sensor, turbo boost sensor, and the CRANKSHAFT SENSOR.

The GM manual says to to the TDC Offset...in their crankshaft position sensor replacement directions......

I am wondering if anyone has replaced this sensor and then had the poor running and black smoke.....it is kinda like it is out of time???....

I have also installed a clear piece of tubing (until I get this problem fixed) in the fuel return line to see of there is any air in the fuel....no air bubbles as of now.

What do you think...should I run it to the dealer...(they are litterally across the street) and have the timing checked and the TDC offset done.

Prior to the work being done, the truck ran perfectly.....no starting problems.....I was just getting compression into my cooling system...so I decided to replace heads.

Thanks

[Patrick m.]

i would re-visit the injector pipe orientation. A couple are easy to mix up, and this will cause rough running, along with several other problems.

[Warren96]

Any codes from the computer?

[perryvr]

No trouble codes on the truck

Installed brand new injector lines....when I purchased them, they came "paired-up" with the cylinder next to it...they all had new brackets and rubber mount pieces.....would have been impossible to connect wrong - - -without some serious bending and even if you did manage to get one of them connected wrong, you would have at least 1 other line that would not fit....however, after I had them installed I did get out my handy book and made sure the correct line went to the correct injector.

I still feel it is a timing issue.....still wondering about the TDC resetting...

Went to the dealer this morning....he did not have time to look at it...they are only open from 8:00am to Noon and he was "busy" doing a front-end alignment....that was going to take him till at least noon!....good thing he does not work on commission...

Anyway, hopefully somebody can explain what a truck runs like when you replace the camshaft sensor and do not do the TDC learn....GM manual says this must be done....however, recently found instructions on resetting the TDC to "0"....it says to use the "tech I' scanner but that is just to read the engine temp and to verify that the TDC has been reset to "0"...it then describes the process of setting the timing and using the "Tech I" to verify the new timing setting.


Thanks
...

[Warren96]

My timing was all over the place after changing timing gears and it never smoked black on idle.The crank sensor just tells the computer where the crank is ,so it can place the next injecter shot of fuel.The difference between any 2 sensors can't be enough to cause the symptoms you are seeing.Have you warmed it up by driving it yet? There are some codes that wont be set unless it's good and warm.It's cheaper to replace the old sensor and see what happens than to pay the dealer to have it timed.You do have the old sensor dont you?

[perryvr]

Sorry, old camshaft sensor destroyed during removal...came out in many pieces.

I have not driven it down the road yet....it is missing so bad and belching black smoke that I am afraid of doing some permanent damage.

I have just let it idle for 1/2 hour periods and the temp gauge only shows about 180 degrees....I hooked up my autoxray scanner to it and it would show a engine temp of about 127 degrees...that is all the higher it would go.

However, I don't have much faith in the autoxray as in the monitor mode, when you looks at the engine rpm's on the scanner, the number goes DOWN as you increase the engine rpm's??

Thanks for the input...I have an appointment at the dealer on Monday...they are just across the street so I will post the results of what they find wrong.

Thanks for the input

[DaveNY]

Perry,
I had a dispute with dealer over warranty on IP and got hot and told them to push it outside and I would come and get it. Well I installed the fuel filter i n the dealers driveway and had a very hard time getting the engine started(much cranking). When it Fired up it was noticably out of time (very loud rattle). The dealer left the crank sensor unplugged which I found when I returned home.With the crank sensor plugged back in wich I would figure is close to mimicking a crank sensor swap the truck ran OK but kept chucking a code. The timing offset was at -2.48 just out of range for the T-2 to adjust I had to move the pump. All this said the truck was drivable and never had a miss or belched smoke.Not an expert by any means but I think you may have another issue.
Dave

[Warren96]

I know you can get a lot of help here on the ''Diesel Page''.Can you tell us a little more about the truck?What year is it?

[Warren96]

Sorry I got happy fingers there a minute ago,I dont see any signature lines under the members replys when you reply to a thread.I see the year now!!

[perryvr]

Well, I thought I would update you all.

Monday, I took the tuck to the dealer, which is right across the street. The truck sat all day and never moved. Finally at about 3:00pm the truck disappeared..not sure where it went?:confused:

At 5:30, I got a call saying the truck was ready. I walked across the street and the dealer was closed..Truck sitting out side and keys in it. So I took it home...it ran just as bad. Anyway, went back next day and all he did was put his "scanner" on it and got not codes and he reallly did not have time to work on it...:eek: ...wow, what a great dealer experience. So, it has been sitting out in front of the building.

Anyway, I just finished loosening the fuel lines at the injector to see if it made a difference on how it idled.

The truck is idleing so bad it was hard to tell when I loosed each injector, one at a time and then retightend it.

As the injector line was tightened, the motor made a slight increase in speed, telling me that there was fuel now going through that injector. This was the same on all of the injectors, I even went through them twice to make sure the slight increase in speed was not my imagination.

This slight increase in speed of the motor happened on 7 of the 8 injectors. The one injector line when it was loosend, like all of the other injector lines, really made no difference in how the motor ran, however when I tightened it, it started to make a louder than usual knocking noise....it made the knocking noise about 3 times.

I have a feeling this one injector is not working properly, maybe it is putting to much fuel in or not shutting off.

Anybody have any ideas?....as soon as the motor cools off, I plan on swaping it out with a different injector to see if the problem moves...can 1 bad injector cause a truck to run so poorly?.

Thanks for any responses

[Cowracer]

just because you replaced the injector lines in pairs, do not discount how easy it is to get them out of order.

Correct firing order is 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3. You almost have to pull the intake to check them properly.

Pulling the intake off to check is not that big of a deal. Actually, a 6.5 will run quite well with its intake sitting on a workbench.

The two bottom-most lines are usually the culprit.

Tim

[perryvr]

Well, since my lost post, I removed the 1 injector that I mentioned seemed to make the motor knock more when the fuel line was disconnected and then reconnected....I removed it and replace it with one of the other "new" injectors.

The injector (all were new)... looked like at had a big booger hanging on the end of it....must have been stuck open...yuk...:eek:

I now have 7 of my "internet special" cheapo's and 1 of my old "bosch" injectors and the truck runs "OK".

Next week I am going to yank all of the injectors and replace them with some new from the dealer Bosch injectors and that should solve my problem..I hope.

I learned a lesson.....you get what you pay for...I purchased them on the worlds largest auctions site from a seller called "dieselcare" or "diesel care"..I have not contacted him yet as I want to make sure the new Bosch injectors take care of the problem....the injectors I received from the auction site had no brand name on them....so I assume they are china copies.:(

The truck is running ok but still acts like it is getting to much fuel.

thanks for all the help....

[Warren96]

There are better places to buy diesel parts than at the dealer, try one of the advertisers here on this site.I have had excelant service from them. Kennedy Diesel sells motor parts,for example.

[Robyn]

There should be a rebuilder of diesel pumps and such somewhere close to you.
I traded my set in at a local shop (reputable) AND GOT A SET OF THEIR REMANS for $256 and dont have to worry.
The advertisers here such as Kennedy will certainly be a good choice if you dont have a local shop. The only difference would be the time to ship the stuff.
I have talked to John Kennedy several times and he is definately Top shelf when it comes to his services and products.

Glad to hear you finally got the beastie running.