Best Driving Lights?

[TurboDiverArt]

Hi All,

I'm tired of not being able to see when it's raining! I have new lenses, Kennedy's headlight wiring and Phillips Rally bulbs and although they improved things over stock, it's still marginal at best.

I'm looking to install driving lights in the stock bumper fog light holes. I want whatever works best. Looks like you can fit a good size light in there but not sure which ones are best. I don't want to blind other drivers but I want to see. I was thinking getting a set of driving lights that have the louvers on them to ensure none of the light shoots up into other driver

[GMC Hauler]

I have heard others on this board talk about cooling problems when those holes are covered. I've been raking fog and driving lights over the coals for about a year now. I thought about installing below the bumber, but was afraid they would get knocked off when I took it offroad. Finally, the answer came to me. click on the following link to see a custom bumper: LMC Truck (http://www.lmctruck.com/features/cd/CDBMA.htm) .

That bumper comes with the lights installed, they are decent lights, and the cooling hole is larger (if you go with the 39-9816 or 39-9817). So you get custom lights, and more cooling capability. This is the way I will go.

[DA BIG ONE]

Art, The best driving light upgrade I've done on any vehicle is the HELLA DYNAVIEW w/auto matic cornering light feature, big $$$ but best price is at JC Whitney. These are big lights that are mounted above/below bumper like ralley lights. Driving with them on long winding backroads is just great.

Because of the auto cornering light feature you can blind an oncoming driver, not good in urban situations. Common sense should prevail here by shutting them off momentarily, or maybe an additional switch to shut off auto feature would be helpful.

Those holes in the bumper are for cooling the diesel, the only other GM that had this type bumper was the Tahoe Limited (gas version) which used the holes for fog lights.

Helpful site: http://catalog.com/susq/other/headlamp.htm

[stingthieves]

Now if we just had a bumper that we could do all this with AND hide an intercooler too! :cool:

[TurboDiverArt]

Damn, I thought fog lights were an option on our trucks. If it's going to effect cooling then that's not an option I want to pursue. $350 for a bumper with lights isn't too bad when you think about it. Wife will want to kill me but I'll come up with some excuse. Maybe I

[Bobbie Martin]

This is a common thread as the composite lights are terrible. As you found, even with improvements they still are not very good. The real trick is to replace them with better lights. If you do a search I'm sure you will find some info on this. With upgraded headlights, you may not need auxiliary lights. But if you do, I urge you to buy quality lights. I have no knowledge of the lights sold with the bumpers mentioned above, but my guess is they don't have very good optics. Composite lights with 4 more poor quality lights may not solve your problem. Quality lights do cost more, but it all depends on what you want. This web page (http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html) has some really good info. I wouldn't cover the air holes in the bumper. Some Tahoes did come with lights there, but these are gas trucks. Instead of tooling up for a new bumper, they probably used the bumpers available and made the lights fit. Those trucks never had a need for the extra cooling holes.

[twaddle]

And I thought I was the only one with this problem after installing the relay kit.
If anyone does have an answer to this problem let us know.

I am going to end up in the ditch one of those nights due to this problem.

Regards

Jim Twaddle
Biggar, Scotland

[GMC Hauler]

Originally posted by Bobbie Martin:
This is a common thread as the composite lights are terrible. As you found, even with improvements they still are not very good. The real trick is to replace them with better lights. If you do a search I'm sure you will find some info on this. With upgraded headlights, you may not need auxiliary lights. But if you do, I urge you to buy quality lights. I have no knowledge of the lights sold with the bumpers mentioned above, but my guess is they don't have very good optics. Composite lights with 4 more poor quality lights may not solve your problem. Quality lights do cost more, but it all depends on what you want. This web page (http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html) has some really good info. I wouldn't cover the air holes in the bumper. Some Tahoes did come with lights there, but these are gas trucks. Instead of tooling up for a new bumper, they probably used the bumpers available and made the lights fit. Those trucks never had a need for the extra cooling holes. If the lights do prove to not be as good, you could still buy one of the bumpers with more opening and then mount the lights inside of the larger openings (such as model 39=9815).

[TurboDiverArt]

Originally posted by Bobbie Martin:
This is a common thread as the composite lights are terrible. As you found, even with improvements they still are not very good. The real trick is to replace them with better lights. If you do a search I'm sure you will find some info on this. With upgraded headlights, you may not need auxiliary lights. But if you do, I urge you to buy quality lights. I have no knowledge of the lights sold with the bumpers mentioned above, but my guess is they don't have very good optics. Composite lights with 4 more poor quality lights may not solve your problem. Quality lights do cost more, but it all depends on what you want. This web page (http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html) has some really good info. Hey Bobbie. When you say quality lights, are you talking about the bulbs, headlight housing or both? I have Kennedy's Phillips Rally bulbs. The housings I have are Diamonds, with the clear lens. I bought these over the GM replacements because I thought they were better. My stock ones were very hazy. I polished them and they got marginally better but still very bad. The Diamonds are better than the ones I replaced and not too bad when the road is dry. When the road is wet and the pavement is very black it seems as if the light is just absorbed and you can't see anything.

I don't remember where I bought my bulbs. I never tried the higher wattage bulbs after installing the upgraded wiring. Having the full alternator voltage go to the bulb might help. I'm open to almost anything.

We use what, H4 bulbs on the low side?

Art.

[Bobbie Martin]

Originally posted by twaddle:
I am going to end up in the ditch one of those nights due to this problem.Jim,
Do you have composite lights on your truck? I didn't think they made RHD dipping composite lights.

[Bobbie Martin]

Hey Bobbie. When you say quality lights, are you talking about the bulbs, headlight housing or both? I'm talking about REAL headlights, which basically means Cibie E codes. Yes, they are expensive. Yes, you have to change the grille. But, the Cibies have the optics and that is what its all about. They use H4 bulbs (dual filament high & low beam). You already have the relays so all you will need (in addition to the grille parts) are the headlamps and a pair of high wattage H4 connectors to splice into your harness. You can get the headlamp & parts from Stern or OJ Rallye (http://www.vclassics.com/ojrallye.htm). I would try the headlamps first and then add auxiliary lights if needed. One more thing, I would get the headlights with internal parking lamps. You will have a parking lamp wire left over when you do the swap and this would be the ideal setup. Also, order an extra bulb and carry it with you. You can get H4s at most parts houses, but the bulbs always burn out when the parts houses are closed or 100 miles away.

[Beedee]

I have a set of Hella 500's on my truck. Paid about $100.00 canadian about 7 years ago. I have them wired into the high beam with a relay. What I have found is that if I run a 100 watt bulb, they get too hot and will crack the lense if they get splashed with water or if it rains too hard (I do live on the WET COAST :D ), so I just stick with the 55 watt bulbs. I find that you get pretty good light for the price, but low beam still sucks ;)
I would love to have the Dynaviews but they are pricey.
Happy New Year everyone
Brian

[twaddle]

Hi Bobbie,
Yes the suburban has Composite lights and you are correct in saying that they are not available in RHD dip configuration.
I have to adjust that lights to get as close to the required area as is possible.
When it comes to the annual inspection it helps to deal with people who don't mind a bit of give and take regarding the regulations.

I need to do something about the poor lights, if it was not for the white lines on most of the roads over here I would have had an accident long before now.

Regards

Jim Twaddle
Biggar, Scotland

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by Beedee:

I would love to have the Dynaviews but they are pricey.
Happy New Year everyone
Brian Happy New Year back to ya!

I had installed stone guards right away because of the price of the dyanviews and their replacement parts, used the old round CJ style for the rugged look. I think now they have a clear stone guard that snaps over lens which is nice for the custom look.

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
I have PIAA pro80XTs mounted above the bumper and PIAA 1.5x5inch fog lights mounted in the air damn below the bumper. Fog/rain/snow lights should have a slight amber tint to them and be mounted as close to the ground as possible and not everly powerfull as what kills you is the reflected ligth from these adverse conditions. Not a good idea to drive real fast anyways. Driving lights should be clear and mounted as high as legal and as powerfull as possible/legal. My truck also has the relay upgrade for factory lights and I use 100watt brights and 70watt dims Phillip Rally bulbs(not available anymore) Also for the fog/snow/rain issue I removed the headlight lense and painted the top and top1/4inch forward part of the lense black to get rid of some of the stray light that was coming up in front of the windshield. When I drive with brights on I a total of about 590watts of potential output. It looks like a football stadium for about 1 mile.
Hope this helps!
L8r
Conley

[stingthieves]

590watts of potential output. It looks like a football stadium for about 1 mile. That

[Bill Siver]

I put 4 high beam bulbs in our '97. The amount of light is awsome, and would be even better if I had the wiring to run all four when on "HIGH".

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c317/mr_goodwrench_06/01.jpg

Also, on all my other trucks, I have run a pair of 150 watt KC Daylighter 6" round lights.

Bill

[7.4 VORTEC]

Art,

Save your money on the bumpers. Those little 3" to 4" bumper lights are nothing more than fancy marker lights. In the world of lighting, size matters. Ever wonder why baja race trucks and professional rally cars run minimum 7" diameter lights?? 80% of the lights performance is reflector size and shape, not bulb wattage. If you really want to be able to see far ahead with decent road side view, go with either Hella 4000's or any of the free from reflector CIBIE's over 6" in diamter. Most of these lights are available in either driving or cornering beam patterns. By drilling two holes into the top of your bumper they bolt right up with minimal hassle. You can also use an inexpensive brush guard or light bar on the stock bumper as an alternate mounting option, also.

Regarding your present headlights, if your bulbs are more blue-ish than stock, you will lose vision in bad weather or rain. The bluer the light, the shorter the wavelength and the worse in foul weather. In our testing, blue bulbs just plain suck.

We also found that the majority of bulbs come nowhere near their listed wattage. If you have an access to an amp meter, you can figure out just how much wattage your lights are consuming. Most bulbs (especially Asian) only put out about 80% of the rated wattage. Osrams did pretty darn good.

Good luck.

George

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by Bill Siver:
I put 4 high beam bulbs in our '97. Bill Bill, are those units sealed, or can you just change out the bulb only (e code)?

Where can they be had?

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
In the research that I did, I found that many light bulbs advertise light output "EQUIVILANT" to a stated wattage. In otherwords they don't really put out that much light but supposedly the special TYPE of light they put out is better than regular light...go figure???? :confused: Anyways, we found the same thing, any headlights that had some type of coloration or other gimmick pretty much sucked. I found that regular old high wattage bulbs from Phillips or JC Whitney when supplied with good voltage were by far the best. The lights really need direct power fro mthe batteries routed though a relay. The Phillips light are AWESOME, but can no longer be found. In fog/rain/snow the super bright lights will work against you as there will be more glare. Check out the PIAA websight, they have some good explainations.
L8r
Conley Janssen

[Bill Siver]

No they are stock '88 sealed beams, but you can get lights that take a replaceable halogen bulb here: http://eurolamps.com/eurolamps/sealedbeams.htm

I'm going this route in the future, with all upgrades wiring and the "4 HIGH" wiring setup.

Bill

[jspringator]

I got these Toshiba Bulbs (http://www.finemotoring.com/) , but I am not expecting much. Should be more light in bad housings. I will put them in tomorrow. Minor trimming is required.

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by Bill Siver:
No they are stock '88 sealed beams, but you can get lights that take a replaceable halogen bulb here: http://eurolamps.com/eurolamps/sealedbeams.htm

I'm going this route in the future, with all upgrades wiring and the "4 HIGH" wiring setup.

Bill Thanks for the reply, I'm guessing they matchup to radiator support, or?

[jspringator]

Got drivers side in. Noticeably brighter than other side. Can't get screw out on passenger side towards middle of truck, so could only do one side. Would appear to be worth $60. Not real white like those silverstars. Why won't that middle screw come out?

Here is brightness chart. I only used low beams.

Type*.........HB4/9006........HIR2/9012.......HB3/9005........HIR1/9011

Beam..........Standard Low....HIR Low.........Standard High...HIR High

W@V...........55W@12.8W.......55W@12.8W.......65W@ 12.8W.......65W@12.8W

Lumens........1000............1875............1700 ............2500

ColorTemp.....3100K...........3600K...........3250 K...........3600K

Rated Life**..1000 hours......800 hours.......225 hours.......300 hours


* US DOT designates the bulb type and, in the case of these bulbs, two designators were assigned to each bulb.

** Rated Life is measured at 14.0 V and is for comparative purposes only. It does not equate to real-world life in any meaningful way; real-world life is always longer.

[ 01-03-2006, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: James Springate ]

[Bill Siver]

Originally posted by DA BIG ONE:
Thanks for the reply, I'm guessing they matchup to radiator support, or? Yea, everything is a direct swap. Simply unbolt your grill, unbolt your current lights (4 bolts - 10mm socket), splice the pigtails for the '88 lights onto your wiring, and bolt in the '88 lights. You change the entire assembly. Depending on how good you are with electrical work, the swap can be done in about an hour.

As a side benifit, you won't see many trucks with this grill/light combo because it wasn't offered from the factory. This can also be done with the GMC grill.

Bill

[twaddle]

Bill,
Any sources for these lights and do they come with the back plates and adjusters?

Thanks

Jim Twaddle
Biggar, Scotland

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
I've always thought the lights on my 88 were better than the current composit lights. If for nothing else, the fact that they can be individually adjusted makes a big difference. If I didn't have so much invested in light bulbs I would be doing this conversion! :D
L8r
Conley

[TurboDiverArt]

Originally posted by 7.4 VORTEC:
Art,

Save your money on the bumpers. Those little 3" to 4" bumper lights are nothing more than fancy marker lights. In the world of lighting, size matters. Ever wonder why baja race trucks and professional rally cars run minimum 7" diameter lights?? 80% of the lights performance is reflector size and shape, not bulb wattage. If you really want to be able to see far ahead with decent road side view, go with either Hella 4000's or any of the free from reflector CIBIE's over 6" in diamter. Most of these lights are available in either driving or cornering beam patterns. By drilling two holes into the top of your bumper they bolt right up with minimal hassle. You can also use an inexpensive brush guard or light bar on the stock bumper as an alternate mounting option, also.

Regarding your present headlights, if your bulbs are more blue-ish than stock, you will lose vision in bad weather or rain. The bluer the light, the shorter the wavelength and the worse in foul weather. In our testing, blue bulbs just plain suck.

We also found that the majority of bulbs come nowhere near their listed wattage. If you have an access to an amp meter, you can figure out just how much wattage your lights are consuming. Most bulbs (especially Asian) only put out about 80% of the rated wattage. Osrams did pretty darn good.

Good luck.

George Thanks for the info. The lights I have are the clear Phillips Bulbs, not the crappy ones. I tried the bluish ones and that are terrible at any wattage.

Art.

[twaddle]

I've managed to locate a complete second hand set of the 4 light type as in Bill Silver's picture above for

[jspringator]

Has anyone tried these glass light housings? Mr. Tailight (http://www.mrtaillight.com/product_info.php?cPath=100_104_112&products_id=477)

[ 01-09-2006, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: James Springate ]

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
Just as a note on headlights... ANY and ALL bulbs that you see that are DOT accepted will be the SAME wattage as factory. Anything else done to them is, in my opinion, snake oil! I have a pretty good collection of different bulbs to attest to this fact. JC Whitney has high wattage off-road bulbs that work great but they do not have the life span of the old Phillips Ralley bulbs.
L8r
Conley

This excludes any one from across the pond! :D

[GMCfourX4]

There WAS a common modification to the B-bodys (Impala/Caprice) that involved replacing the factory plastic lights with the Euro export lights (until GM ran out of stock, now they're prohibitively expensive). I tried once to find out if there was a T84 (or similar) option code for our trucks (which would be Headlamp, Export, RH Rule of Road) but never found any info. This page is about the conversion on the Impalas, but the same ideas should apply to the trucks, I would think. http://www.theherd.com/articles/t84.html If anyone has access to the parts books, I'd be curious to know if GM made a similar light for the trucks they exported (or sold elsewhere).

-Chris

[TurboDiverArt]

[quote]Originally posted by twaddle:
[b] I've managed to locate a complete second hand set of the 4 light type as in Bill Silver's picture above for

[twaddle]

Art,
The lights that I managed to get are the type as in the picture above from Bill Siver but have back plates from the composite set up, these have been drastically modified to fit the four separate lights.

Have you tried www.partstrain.com (http://www.partstrain.com) ?

Search in 1988 GMC or Chevrolet pick up applications, I know that they list the lights but am not sure if they include the back plates.

I will check if my "new" lights have any part numbers but I was told that were european spec lights.

Regards

Jim Twaddle
Biggar, Scotland

[DA BIG ONE]

You could vie to be really different by installing projection beams like you see on many newer suv's like the Land Rover.

They can be found in different sizes + DOT approved on the following link, backing plates and adjusters too.

http://catalog.com/susq/other/headlamp.htm

[TurboDiverArt]

Originally posted by twaddle:
Art,
The lights that I managed to get are the type as in the picture above from Bill Siver but have back plates from the composite set up, these have been drastically modified to fit the four separate lights.

Have you tried www.partstrain.com (http://www.partstrain.com) ?

Search in 1988 GMC or Chevrolet pick up applications, I know that they list the lights but am not sure if they include the back plates.

I will check if my "new" lights have any part numbers but I was told that were european spec lights.

Regards

Jim Twaddle
Biggar, Scotland WOW, expensive. The dual headlight housings are like $40 each side. Add in lamps and you're easily at close to $200. Probably best to look on eBay for a set.

Art.

[Perry]

Originally posted by TurboDiverArt:

I'm tired of not being able to see when it's raining! I have new lenses, Kennedy's headlight wiring and Phillips Rally bulbs and although they improved things over stock, it's still marginal at best.
Up here in the Northwest, I'm driving in the rain all the time, and after upgrading w/the relay kit and 70w lows and 100w highs from DSG, I have no problem driving in the rainy dark nights, even in the country using my stock lens. I wired the low beams to come on with the highs, and I can see at least 1/2 mile away when they are on.

I'm surprised that the 70w lows don't seem to bother in-coming traffic either. The downside is that the 70w lows burned out within 9 months as they were on all the time w/the DRL. Since I couldn't find a replacement set, I've been running some DOT legal Silverstars, but that whiter color light is worse in the rain....I have a pair of 80w clear bulbs on order which should fix things again.

[TurboDiverArt]

Originally posted by Bill Siver:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DA BIG ONE:
Thanks for the reply, I'm guessing they matchup to radiator support, or? Yea, everything is a direct swap. Simply unbolt your grill, unbolt your current lights (4 bolts - 10mm socket), splice the pigtails for the '88 lights onto your wiring, and bolt in the '88 lights. You change the entire assembly. Depending on how good you are with electrical work, the swap can be done in about an hour.

As a side benifit, you won't see many trucks with this grill/light combo because it wasn't offered from the factory. This can also be done with the GMC grill.

Bill </font>[/QUOTE]Well, I bought a set of lights from an 88 off eBay. $90 shipped for both sides, complete with lights and wiring. I'm pretty excited.

Dumb question, anyone know if the outside or inside is the low beam?

Any suggestions on replacing the sealed beams with a different brand? Maybe just replace the low with a high beam?

Art.