Sol D problems revisited

[Robyn]

Last winter I had a problem with my 94 Sub not wanting to start when the outside temp was below 30f
I had consulted with the maker of the Sol D unit and they were adamant that it was a voltage problem.
I checked all the cables and all seemed to be fine. The weather warmed up and all was well.

As is usual when the problem is not in front of us screaming we tend to forget about it.
Recently the old 94 lost a head gasket and I have posted (High Mile Overhaul)
about the rebuild on the old girl.
While the engine is out I have cleaned up a load of little issues in the engine bay with wiring,wrinkle wrap,hoses and other little things that cant be reached otherwise with the engine in the hole.
I just finished replacing all the cables in preparation to drop the engine back in and decided to disect them one at a time to see if anything was amiss.
Now all these cables looked fine. I cut the red boots off of the positive cables and then sawed the crimp off the cable ends. The cable is soldered into the end too.
Now it gets interesting. The outer layer of strands were fine and thats where the solder was but the core was coroded badly, especially the small feed wire that runs from the right cable end to the junction block.
This small wire is what feeds the entire electrical system of the truck.
The large cable runs the starter motor but does nothing for the rest of the system.
The ground cables looked good too but the ends at the block were the same way, fine on the outside but after cutting them open the same type of extensive corrosion was found.
I live in western oregon and here at the ranch we are at 1200ft El and get a lot of wet sloppy days as the top of the mt is in the clouds and everything gets damp. This combination will result in an excellerated rate of corrosion.
The cables are also not made with materials that will help eliminate this either.
If cable ends are soldered properly the solder penetrates the layers of the wire. All the cables I cut open were sweat soldered on the outside only but the core was green with corrosion
I do believe that the replacement of these battery cables will correct the problem not to mention other things might work better.
I had also noticed that with the AC blower running especially at night with all the lights that the volt meter in the dash would drop to 13 and a check at the battery with a hand meter would reveal 14-14.5. Hmmmm seems that the issue has presented itself.

If you are seeing any voltage issues, replace all the cables especially if your rig is a few years old and has many miles on it.

Hope this helps others.
Robyn

[BrentN]

Robyn,
Appreciate the info. Sometime the simplest of things can yield huge results. Time to go check my cables. I dont live up in the hills but see similar weather that you do.

[ronniejoe]

Read the SOL-D sticky post at the top of this forum. I've run three test units from RemarQ on behalf of TDP.

I've had the cold no-start issue. If I unplug the SOL-D and plug in my remote mounted Stanadyne FSD, the truck fires right up.

Bottom line... The SOL-D doesn't work when the Stanadyne will. I don't care about any other issues (cables, grounds, etc.) If I can simply unplug the SOL-D and plug in the FSD to get it to run, that tells me the SOL-D needs more work.

I don't trust it. I will not give it a positive review at this point.

Edit:

Oops! The post is gone. Could one of the moderators restore this post to the top of the forum? Thanks.

[jspringator]

My cable from the drivers side battery to the main fuse block was severely corroded ITS ENTIRE LENGTH. Of course I replaced it with 2 sizes larger. I replaced and upgraded the cable to the block, and covered the stud with metalic anti seize to increase connectivity. I upgraded the connection between the 2 batteries, and added a large ground cable between the 2 negative terminals. I converted to top mount redtop Optimas to keep the gassing down so I wouldn't have to do this again. I didn't change the wires to the alternator and starter, primarily because they are hard to get to, but also I think there is a fusable link in those lines, or at least on the line to the starter. I turns over real strong, and charges well, so maybe those cables were spared.

I think the side mounted Delco batteries are the kiss of death for the cables. I have regular autozone lead top caps now, but have some nice top mount clamps from Premire welding that I haven't gotten around to putting on yet. You can't tighten lead too tight before it strips.

[Warren96]

Mine does that also, with the headlights and A/C on. Just thinking out loud here, but maybe that lower voltage is making the FSD overheat shortening its life!

[Robyn]

Well now
Much to be said on this subject.
The Sol D does have one issue that I dont like and it needs attention and that is it shuts off (will Not work) if the input voltage drops to around 9.5
where as the Stanadyne FSD does not care about the voltage drop.
I have the Sol D mounted on the air top hat and a Stanadyne unit remote mounted elswhere and when winter cold comes I just plug in the Stanadyne and when summer is here the Sol D gets the job. Not all that much hastle as it only takes about as much time to switch units from one plug to the other as it does to check the oil.
Ahhhh well such is life with a 6.5
RC

[tommac95]

Thanks for the report, Robyn. Others had reported internal cable corrosion. I think you are the first to dissect the fusebox jumper, and note its critical electric system function.
I think the reason behind the light/superficial solder job is, if soldered throughout the core, the wire becomes exceedingly brittle.

Good practice [minimizing corrosion] involves use of cabling with tinned strands of wire. The battery cabling sold by West Marine centers has tinned stranded conductors.

[john8662]

Does this really need to be at the top?

Here is the detailed thread concerning the SOL-D

SOL-D - DS4 Solenoid Driver & 6.5TD Reliability (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=21795&highlight=SOL-D)

Kinda "bad for business" for that to be at the top... Anyone else want it back to the top, we can make it happen!

J

[ronniejoe]

The thread was at the top until the forum software change. I think it should be there so folks know what they're getting into before buying a SOL-D.

[john8662]

it is done...

[Bobbie Martin]

Ahhhh well such is life with a 6.5


Well, I would modify that somewhat and say "Such is life with a DS4"!
Some of us 6.5 owners don't have PMD problems.

[Robyn]

Just a note here
I really think the Sol D is a fair product and if we make enough noise about this cold start issue I really believe Remarq will address it. In talking with them last winter they indicated to me that they know this can happen but believe its an isolated issue due to poor electrical systems in the older rigs.
The issue is real and the electrical system, (cables) can certainly make for lower voltage but the bottom line is the unit needs to be able to tolerate some voltage drop.
The Sol D will automatically stop functioning if the input voltage drops to about 9- 9.5
A voltage booster circuit is the answer to be sure the unit will work under tough conditions.
You go out at -20F and hop in the old Burb and the kids forgot to plug it into the bar the night before, you betcha the voltage is gonna drop off after the glow plugs get done suckin on the system for a while and thenthe old stater thats seen better days kicks in and the cables that were new back WHEN! try to handle the 400 = amp draw.
The Sol D was designed to work under perfect conditions and it seems to do that well.
We run our old trucks in a very imperfect world inhabited by folks like me who change the oil somewhere between when its due and OMG when was the last time it was changed. The batteries still work so be darned if im gonna buy new ones.
Battery cables ??? yes it has them!!. Fuel filter??? I think I changed it year before last, I think??????????? .
I really do believe that a product has to work under the worst conditions and do well to be a great product.
Some of my criteria for a 4x4 rig
1- As much manual equipment as possible( I hate electric 4x4 shift)
2- A fuel filter that actually looks like something other than a dixie cup
3- All things that might fail during severe weather conditions either made well or left off the bottm of the truck where they get trashed by frozen slabs of icy snow and mud that gets tossed up as you take to the ditch to avoid some out of control Moron trying out his new SUV for the first time.
My personal winter Bad weather rig is as below
1986 GMC dually 1 ton 4x4
Turbo 400 ( well built with coolers and kit)
503 long stoke rat motor ( 454 with 3/8 stoker and .030 over bore)
Skid pans, manual hubs, manual 4x4, 4 red top jello batteries with 2 on a charge guard with a manual battery switch and real heavy cables.
This old beast will go pretty much any time I need it.
Two electric fuel pumps with one auxilliary on manual switch as backup.
extra electronic dist cap and brain in the box behind the back seat.

When we get crappy weather the old "Black Mariah" rolls.
The diesel subs sit in the drive and I bet my bucks on the old crew cab.
Anyway I got carried away.
The Sol D can be a great product but untill the company fixes that one issue they have a fair product.
Too bad Stanadyne did'nt make their FSD worth a darn and we would not be talking about all this stuff.
Robyn

[ronniejoe]

Your comments are all reasonable. The entire market for this unit is "older trucks" with their attendant degraded electrical systems. They have not been very responsive on this issue.

I've had three different units, all at no charge, for my testing.

The first one died on the second day. They had a quality problem that caused an internal short.

The second one still works, but has problems. 1) Radio interference is unbearable on the AM band when running on the SOL-D. 2) When running on cruise control with the converter locked down a hill, the SOL-D will cause the engine to surge and buck violently (the Stanadyne FSD doesn't do that) until you deactivate the cruise control. This surging was present in the first one as well.

The third one still has AM radio interference, although it is less than the second one (I don't think I'd agree with the "five times" less claim). It also still has the surge problem. A new problem with the third unit is the cold no-start issue. That is intolerable in my opinion.

[Robyn]

Hmmmmm
My 94 has the radio interference issue but I dismissed it as a bad radio as I never use the AM side to any extent.
The cruise has never worked since I have owned that rig so that never became a bone of contention either.
With all these other issues coming to light I am becoming more sceptical of the Sol D.
I cant believe that the engineers were not aware of these other problems and if they were and simply ignored them they were remiss and this is not a good thing.
Any product when released to the public should be tested under as many variables as possible and the conditions should be as varied as can be imagined.
Its almost impossible to duplicate every scenario that John Q Public can come up with but the thing should at least work well without major obvious issues.
Has remarq addressed the surging and the radio issue or are they blowing that off to bad wiring too???
The Stanadyne FSD with a remote cooler is looking better all the time.

Later
Robyn

[ronniejoe]

I told them about the surging back in late 2004. Here's the text of the e-mail that I sent to them on 11/15/2004:

Dear Sir:

Thanks in advance for your attention to this matter.

I will be sending the unit back to you today. I have to travel to Joliet, IL this morning but will find a UPS Store in that area to initiate shipment to you. I see that you have provided a UPS account number. Is that to cover the cost of return shipment?

I Installed the unit on Friday, 11/12/2004 with 219,194 miles on the odometer. Attached are photos of the installation for your reference. I put 80 miles on the unit Friday afternoon hauling water and doing some other test drives. I noticed that when operating on cruise with my BD Torqloc engaged and descending a grade, the engine would begin to surge and "buck" violently. I have included a PowerPoint file with plots of engine parameters during one such event. If I switched the TorqLoc off, the surge would stop. If I disengaged the cruise, the surge would stop. I have operated the truck under the same conditions with the Stanadyne FSD (yesterday, 11/14/2004) and this phenomenon does not occur. This surging is something that I would not want to "live with" over the long term and should be addressed.

On Saturday morning, with the ambient temperature about 27F, the truck would not start on the first attempt of the morning. Several attempts were made, but no joy. Occasionally, one or two cylinders would fire and that is all. I disconnected the SOL-D unit and reconnected the Stanadyne FSD. The truck started immediately at the conclusion of one normal glow cycle. After driving over 100 miles Saturday, I reconnected the SOL-D unit. Still would not start. I removed the unit and have been operating normally with the Stanadyne FSD.

Hopefully this information will be of some assistance to you in determining the cause of this problem. Although I've only had one FSD failure, I know that it is a common problem for the 6.5 TD and am eager to see some improvement offered for it.

As I said above, I am traveling to Joliet this morning. Please contact me at the number below (cell) as e-mail will be unavailable for a few hours. Thank you.


Ronald J. Schoolcraft
Schoolcraft Power Train
Engineering Services
2040 Country Club Rd.
Martinsville, IN 46151
(765) 346-2990
(765) 349-8458 (fax)
ron@schoolcraftpowertrain.com
www.schoolcraftpowertrain.com (http://www.schoolcraftpowertrain.com)

As you can see, they have not addressed the issue even though they have known about it. If you read the thread that I referenced earlier, you'll see that I was initially very optimistic about this product. The interference and surging were nuisances in my mind, but the cold no-start issue soured me very quickly.

Here's a post from the other thread:


Note: I edited my 2/19/2006 8:00 am post.

I have driven since yesterday on the Stanadyne unit. I had become accustomed to the crappy reception on AM with the SOL-D and forgot what I should be getting. While the annoying popping at engine speed is largely gone now, there is a high frequency interference that can completely drown out at weak AM signal. I was amazed at how much better my AM reception was today with the Stanadyne FSD functional instead of the SOL-D.

I was beginning to believe that my radio was dying because I could not pick up AM (I listen to Rush frequently) stations well at all. After switching back to the Stanadyne FSD, I could pick them up again.

I still think that if they suck it up and fix these issues instead of blaming them on the customer (ala Stanadyne) that they could have a great product.

I cannot endorse it now, though.

[rjwest]

I tested a Sol'D for 1 year/ 20K miles.

Engine started quicker, idle was better and driveability
was also better than the standyne.

It did make noise in the Am and the CB radios.

It also exhibited the 'No Start ' when Battery Voltage
would drop to the 9 Volt range ( Battery Voltage during starting). I believe this is a function of the active electronic
device that is used to drive the IP .

I experienced no problem with cruise control operation.
As to the surging/ bucking with cruise control ( with TCC locked ), this is not a normal function of the design.
The TCC unlocks and fuel rate is cut back to less than
idle fuel flow any time the PCM determines a no load condition is required. There fore I do not think TCC Locked/Cruise condition to be an issue against the Sol'd,
only a unique application issue.


I returned to the standyne PMD for 1 reason,
Noise in the CB radio.

[ronniejoe]

While on cruise control, the TCC will stay locked on a down grade to help maintain constant speed...

I have experienced the surging, although to a lesser degree, without the Torqloc engaged.

[Robyn]

Hmm
My cruise has not worked so I dont get that but I have noticed that from time to time the tac will flutter while decending a grade. What has been happening is the engine RPM has been fluctuating and I just dont feel the thing is all.

[Kennedy]

If it had TRULY been tested thoroughly in the "Great White North" this issue would have surfaced. If the unit fails to perform it must be backed up with a Stanadyne driver or another of it's kind as you won't find it on the shelf very many places.

I truly hope that the product is refined to the point of performing flawlessly. Then maybe Remarq will step up and invest in larger production volumes so that they can offer a reasonable wholesale price structure rather than asking resellers to fund their production.

[Robyn]

Good point John
I for one am looking real hard at going back to all mechanical stuff.
As I mentioned in another post I am seriously thinking about a 95 Tahoe and doing a DB2 and tossing the 4L60 and replacing it with a well built 700R.
Very little of the original system would be needed, just enough to run the gauges, fuel pump and such.
This should be a wonderfully reliable rig.
The more they overthink the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the drain.

RC