Diesels getting dinged-New limits on tailpipe emissions are expected to jack up truck

[TxDoc]

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[D-max Man]

Class 8 trucks (Freightliner, Perterbuilt Ect...) are going to go up $7,000.00 - $10,000.00 per truck for these government mandated filtration systems. I'M not sure how much the increase will be for passenger cars & pickups will be. All on highway diesels are required to have these come 01/01/07.

Also there will be added maintenance costs accossiated with them.

[Quack_Addict]

No surprise - diesels take another one on the chin.

Big Brother likes speaking out of both sides of his mouth... "we must decrease our dependence on foreign oil" yet they put regulations like this in place that err-by discourage consumers from purchasing more efficient engines. To call a spade a spade, regulations of this nature are essentially encouraging a move to larger displacement spark ignition engines (like the 8.1L) and/or higher compression small block engines to get the same job done.

Ethanol a solution? Nope, lower energy density than gasoline... currently costly to produce. Burning E10 in my 6.0L HD, I see a difference in MPG's between when I fill up with it and 100% gas. The push for E85... maybe in a rice burner... IMHO it's got no place in a truck that sees pulling duty.

Hydrogen? Don't get me started.

[D-max Man]

Rumor has it that GM is planning on doing awaw with the 8.1 L soon.

[Quack_Addict]

Rumor has it that GM is planning on doing awaw with the 8.1 L soon.

I have not heard that rumor, yet, but I would not be surprised. I am pretty impressed with the 8.1L engine for what it is in terms of fuel economy and power - but my opinion is based upon a sample size of one (my brothers `02 HD with the 8.1L/Allison).

I'm not sure how much further internal combustion gasoline engine technology can go above and beyond what we see today, aside from direct injection technology. There's only so much energy in a gallon of gas and most of that is lost as heat in an ICE. I have worked extensively with the 4.8-6.0L Vortecs on several aftermarket projects and know the 6.0L in particular is capable of making HUGE power - if fuel economy and component durability are 'compromised', to use the term loosely in the durability aspect. It is my opinion that a hopped up 6.0L is in no way a replacement for a bone stock 8.1L from a cost, durability and reliability standpoint.

IMHO, OEM's need to offer large-displacement, 'low' compression engines as an alternative to diesels in vehicles intended for service above and beyond "grocery getter" requirements. This will become more evident as emission requirements for diesels become more stringent pushing the cost of diesel engines higher. To put it simply, the large displacement yields the torque, 'low' compression the ability to run on `el cheapo 87 pump gas. How this plays into less dependency on foreign oil, I haven't got a clue - I'm just an engineer, not an economist.

[16gaSxS]

No surprise - diesels take another one on the chin.



Ethanol a solution? Nope, lower energy density than gasoline... currently costly to produce. Burning E10 in my 6.0L HD, I see a difference in MPG's between when I fill up with it and 100% gas. The push for E85... maybe in a rice burner... IMHO it's got no place in a truck that sees pulling duty.

Hydrogen? Don't get me started.

We took a family trip this past summer in out Lincoln Town Car. 3 people with our "stuff". So we are driving along from Central Montana pick up I-90 near Billings, stay on it all the way to North ILL. Cruise control set at 75 MPH. I was getting 21 mpg in my favorite boat. I fuel up in South Dakota with E10 and MPG's drop to 19 MPG. WTF?????? If my MPG drop 10% and I use 10% more fuel how am I saving fuel????? As soon as we got back out west and was able to get 100% gasoline my MPG went right back to 21 MPG.
From what I have been able to find out is Ethanol produced as it is in the USA is at BEST a energy gain of only about 20-25% that is for every 1 millions of BTU's of Ethanol it take 750-800,000 BTU's too make that Ethanol.
Some resources say it's simply a engery swap it take about the same engery to produce as it provides. From my limited expierence it appears to be simply another market for Corn Farmers with the taxpayer helping to foot bill.

[HH]

"Some resources say it's simply a engery swap it take about the same engery to produce as it provides. From my limited expierence it appears to be simply another market for Corn Farmers with the taxpayer helping to foot bill."

Better to foot the bill here rather than some other country! There really should be a tax break for the user of plant based fuels.