Begging for help!

[Rick Henderson]

I purchased a 03 GMC Sierra and am using the truck to haul a few cars to make ends meet. I was disabled in 2003 in a car wreck caused by someone else. Was terminated from my job of 22 years and now I am waiting for surgery to repair the damage. In the meantime, I am trying to keep busy.

My truck has 164,000 miles on it, and the first complaint was that it was smoking at idle. I was told to use fuel additive, and remove the Hypertech program. Now I smell fuel on the dipstick, it is "making oil", loss of power, loss in fuel mileage.

The engine light never came on, but the Onstar program sent an email stating that there was a problem. I called Onstar and they show a code of P0181 and that it is related to the Fuel System and should bring it in to the dealer within 7 days and that it is ok to drive at this time.

Monday, I will take it to the dealer, which I hate doing and see what they come up with. I have called the GMC customer service center and they said that the injector warranty is not for my vehicle, but for the 01 and 02. They would make a note of it though.

I have a good friend that would be willing to let me purchase the parts at cost from GM, but I just want to make sure before I put $2300+ on the credit card.

Thank you in advance for any help that you may provide me.

[Kennedy]

Sounds like injectors, but best let the dealer diagnose. A good dealer should be able to reason with GM and get the 2003 included in the program. I think if one were to look into the warranty records you would find quite a few 2003 injector issues. At arms length, it almost seems as though 2001 and 2003 were the most problematic yers, but this is just a WAG based on my recollection of what I have seen/heard here and from customers.

[Rick Henderson]

Do you think I should arm myself with the trouble codes and present it to them, or let them figure it out?

I went to the dealer for the transfer case leaking, and they wanted to rebuild the tranny. NO KIDDING! The tech even took it out for a test drive and said yep, have to rebuild the tranny. I saw the post here on the problems, and I replaced the transfer case, and all is fine.

So that is why I am weary of the dealer. I suppose, the can diagnose it.

[machoosh]

whats your vin ? i can do a search and see what warranty you have. keep us informed on whats happening....

[cabletech]

03/04 injectors covered 7/200K
Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On, DTCs P0087, P0093, P1093, Low Power, No Start, Hard Start, Fuel in Crankcase (Replace All Injectors - New Strategy for High Fuel Return Rates) #04-06-04-007E - (Sep 23, 2005)

Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On, DTCs P0087, P0093, P1093, Low Power, No Start, Hard Start, Fuel in Crankcase (Replace All Injectors -- New Strategy for High Fuel Return Rates) 2003-2004 Chevrolet Silverado
2003-2004 Chevrolet Kodiak C4500/C5500 Series
2003-2004 GMC Sierra
2003-2004 GMC Topkick C4500/C5500 Series
with 6.6L Duramax

[Rick Henderson]

whats your vin ? i can do a search and see what warranty you have. keep us informed on whats happening....


I called GMC cust care within the last week, and they stated the injector problem is not covered. They read what Cabletech wrote with the exception of the very first line "03/04 injectors covered 7/200k". So with this maybe my local dealer can get it taken care of?

Thanks guys, I will let you know!

[Rick Henderson]

Appointment tomorrow, $90.00 + tax service inspection fee. Is that typical?

[Kennedy]

I thought this was no deductible, BUT it might be a good idea to let them complete the work, make sure it is right, maybe even pay them, and then argue the details of the deductible etc. once it is running fine.

[Brad Pelot]

Are they charging you the 90 just to diagnose the problem?

[SoTxPollock]

Am I missing something here? Why would you go back to the dealer that whose tech told you you had to rebuild the transmission because of a case leak? I'd be dam sure that tech never touched my truck again. I do hope they do the right thing, the thing is once they've worked on the truck, you're not getting it back without paying the bill or negotiating until the factory pays the bill or some combination of the two. Good Luck.

[Rick Henderson]

I spoke to the service manager at the dealer this morning face to face. He said that he would take care of me this time.

I got a phone call from them and they want to do some more searching and that it will cost $390. now. NOW WHAT? They asked if it had a programer on it. I told them no it didn't.

I asked them if they checked into the warranty on the injectors, and they said that they could not find it. I gave them the numbers that was provided to me, and they said that they will get back to me.

I should not have changed the oil. It had a strong DIESEL smell and was very thin. I asked them about the codes that came up, and they said they were cleared and cannot duplicate them. I asked what about the codes that onstar reported to me. They will have to get back to me.

They said that they did not see the smoke coming out at idle, I asked if they got the right truck, as it is MAJOR smoke coming out.

I AM NOT HAPPY!

[Kennedy]

I have the TSB. Document ID# is 1706222 and it does cover 2003-4 model.

It also states that if your failure fits the criteria that all 8 injectors should be replaced at no cost to you.

[Rick Henderson]

Kennedy,

They are telling me that they are not covered and that he said that it is only on the 01-02. Even after reading the bulletin mutiple times, he said a vehicle that is over the 100,000 mile warranty, it is not covered, and will require 13 hours of labor + 8 hours of diagnostics and then the cost of the parts. He said it is not covered but would have his service manager call GM personally.

Any other suggestions?

The service tech is David Row at 1-253-845-8881

Thanks,

Rick

[Kennedy]

Ask them to look up the Document # that I referenced and it should set them straight. Otherwise send me an email and I'll load your gun for you. If that doesn't work I may know someone who has some pull...

[OC_DMAX]

GM came out with a Corporate Service Bulleting in Sept 23, 2005 (#04-06-04-007E) that indiciated when they should replace all 8 injectors. In that that bulletin, they initially included the 2003-2004 trucks for a warranty period of up to 200K miles. This got a lot of hopes up for 2003-2004 owners.

They then updated that bulletin in Oct 21, 2005 (#04-06-04-007F) that specifically included only 2001-2002 trucks for the 200K mileage (2001-2002 Model Year vehicles may be covered by Special Policy Number 04039).

I think some of the confusion has been brought on by this GM blunder.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[stumo]

The TSB addresses diagnosis and repair on 2001-2004 models. At the bottom it references Special Policy 04039 for years 2001-2002 which have the extended coverage available to those models. So technically the Special Policy doesn't apply but your service manager could get this handled should he/she know how to and have the desire to. Keep pushin'. Doughnuts work too.

stumo

[Kennedy]

Looks like GM amended the bulletin that I have. For some reason they have the 2001-2002 extended terms and that is it. I'm disappointed to see this as 2003 had quite a few issues from what I've seen. I'm also unsure what GM's liability to the old Document is. Maybe they can just change at will?

Rick,

I'd suggest finding another dealer. Many times it is all in the presentation by the dealer. A dealer who goes to bat for his customer should be able to reason with GM that the vehicle in question exhibits the exact same symptoms as previous model years covered by the special policy.



Those running without improved filtration are risking some pretty major out of pocket $$ IMHO. This is something I've been preaching for quite some time now.

[Rick Henderson]

I picked up the truck from the dealer this morning. They said they went to bat for me and called the regional GM rep and he said at this time they would only cover the 01-02, but if they did include the 03-04, to keep all my receipts and ask for reimbursment from GM.

I have ordered the injectors and will install them myself. Should I stick with factory injectors? I need the fuel mileage over power.

[OC_DMAX]

As we all know, GM has a severe financial problem. Unless they are sued by a large body (ie. State or Fed) and a settlement results, I would not hold my breath on them ever helping out 2003-2004 customers. Just my opinion. Tme will tell.

[rob from bc canada]

You gotta wonder - so why do they go around replacing a bunch of old tailgate wires??

Could that be to try and portray responsibility for a very low cost???

[Rick Henderson]

As far as the 01-02 injector program, they didn't call it a recall either said the rep at the dealer, but that it is just a program to replace them if you were having the problems/SES trouble codes. If everyone came in to have them replaced, ouch. Thats where you get those class action suits from.


I still love my GMC Sierra, but am wondering when the spending on repairs is going to stop?


Should I replace with Stock or Others?

Thanks for your help folks.

[Kennedy]

Essentially all that is available is stock. The aftermarket will likely never produce anything more than a few component parts. I generally keep some sets of new injectors on the shelf.

[OC_DMAX]

GM choose the words very carefully for the program that replaces the injectors on the 01-02 truck after the 5yr / 100K warranty expires (and you will not find the word "warranty" mentioned once).

Several years ago, the State of California was prepared to take GM to court over DEFECTIVE fuel injectors in their 4.3L V6 engines used in the S10/Blazer type vehicles. When certain "brands" of fuel were used, the chemical additives would foul-up the injectors. California consumers were faced paying large repair bills in order for their vehicles to pass emissions tests. GM eventually settled for around $400M (if my memory serves me correctly) and extended the warranty on these defective parts.

The defective tailgate straps are really a SAFETY issue. Those are treated much more seriously and are subject to recalls.

[mattb5150]

Wonderful, I just read this. Yesterday I traded in my 2002 crew cab long bed with new injectors and a transfer case leak for 2003 extended cab short bed. Now what's the chance I will have bad injectors on this 03 that GM will not replace?

Matt

[paoutdoorsman]

Matt, my local dealer service department is very easy to work with and very knowledgeable on the Duramax trucks. I spoke with them in length about the injector issues during my search for a truck. They confirmed for me that they could not get an '03 covered under the injector program, which is one of the reasons I chose to buy an '02.

Take Kennedy's advice and improve filtration on your truck and you should not have to worry about injectors on an '03.

Funny thing you just traded your '02 in with the case problem... I just bought an '02 and was unaware of the case problem until I had oil dripping on the floor after I only had 170 miles on the truck. $715 later, I have a new transfer case half installed and 104,000 miles of injector warranty remaining.

Dana

[hapaschold]

you might want to talk to the lemonlaw folk about the wording of the extended injector coverage. i did a breach of warranty with lemonlaw folk with my turbo problems in my ford van, selling dealer couldnt fix, brought to another dealer and had it fixed in 4 days. got 10k for the inconvience on top of van being fixed. lemonlaw.com doesnt charge anything until they collect. something to ponder imo.

[jbplock]

Help for 03 owners may be on the way ...

Heard about a coming revision to special policy 04309 (04309A) effective mid October that will cover the 03 LB7's .. if it's the same as the 01/02 version, coverage would be extended to 7 years/200kmi ... Can anyone confirm??

:)

[mattb5150]

Took the new to me 03 in to the dealer for a bad CV boot and asked them to give me a print out on the truck. It shows lots of stuff the first owner had replced under warranty. But the most important shows that on 4/5/05 it had all 8 injectors replaced refer to TSB 04-06-. One thing that seems strange is that this truck had 18,723 miles in one year then in 5 months the odometer went from 42k to 71k it now has 81k which is another 10k in 7 months.

[Rick Henderson]

Well,
After having GM finally pay me for the new GM injectors to be replaced, I now have the smoking at idle problem back. I can't believe it. I brought it back to a service department and he hooked up his scanner and low and behold, number 8 injector rates are high.

I bet I only have 30,000 miles on the new injectors. I also bet that GM will not cut me another check for more. Now what?

So maybe I had better look into filtration and additization. Can someone explain which one is the best?

Thanks

[Inspector]

Both----See Kennedy
Denny

[DmaxMaverick]

Still under 200K?

A bad injector is a bad injector, and the policy is clear. If you can't get the dealer that did the work before to make good on it, get the complaint on record (to stop your warranty mileage), and get to a dealer that will help you. A PITA, for sure, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Auxiliary filtration is good, but won't help after a problem developes. I don't suggest you use any additive until after you get this resolved. The dealer may try to use any excuse to deny your claim, and using the "wrong" additive is just ammo for them. According to GM, additives are not required, and the engine should run fine without them. They approve specific additive brands, but their official policy is "not required".

[Rick Henderson]

Problem is I now have over 200,000 miles. Actually I put 50,000 miles on since the replacement injectors were put in. So it looks like I am out of luck with the warranty......................So when the truck is smoking at idle, loss of mileage, return rates are high on number 8.... then I should be thinking of doing another round of injectors?

I have put in a complaint to Flying J's to show them all of the crap that they are pumping out of their tanks. I don't think that will help, but I will give it a try.

[Dakster]

IF you are getting "crap" fuel from flying J that doesn't meet spec, it wouldn't matter if you only had 1,000 miles on the truck, GM won't pay and is not responsible. Flying J is. Sometimes you can get lucky and they will just pay your repairs to get rid of you - especially if they know their fuel is/was out of spec. [If I suspected I was getting low quality fuel from a station, I would find another station ASAP...]

I would bet that at first they will deny your claim, but persistence is the key. Also, file a claim against their insurance company and a complaint with DOS ( Department of State or whatever Department in your state handles fuel quality issues). The will most likely send an inspector out sooner rather than later. Hopefully, you have used the same station most of the time and can prove it with credit card receipts/charges.

[DmaxMaverick]

Yes. If it's bad fuel, the fuel supplier is responsible. If you get no joy there, insurance comp coverage should cover it, and let the insurance co. go after the fuel supplier.

[Philsauto]

What sort of improved filtration is recommended to extend the life of the injectors? I just replaced all of mine and the idle smoke is completely gone which I really like. I'd like to extend their life as much as possible. My return rates are now close to zero on all 8.