Looking to swap 350 gas for a 6.5

[mn_powderhound]

Well tell me what you all think. As shown in my signature I have an '86 K20 with a worn out 350. I recently found a company that rebuilds all engines gas or diesel. If you've heard of this company or purchased anything from them let me know. They offer a new 6.5 diesel that I'll show below. I'd like to drop this in my rig, however I also need a computer and wiring harness as this engine is meant for a 1998. Will this be feasible?
Product Name CRATE ENGINE BLOCK (Long Block)
Applications Side Mount Turbo and Non-Turbo Engines
Years 82-04 BOAT, MARINE, TRUCK APPLICATIONS
1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004
Performances Exceeds OEM Performance
Catalog No. HP-GM-DIESEL-65N
Warranty 36,000 Mile / 36-Month
Engine Size 6.5 L, 395 CID (6.5L)
Engine Type V8
Fuel Type Diesel Engine
Our Price $5,995*
40% off the Dealer price
Shipping $199 (within the US)
Notes: This brand new premium engine long block can be modified to your exact performance requirements and specifications. Various crate applications of the 6.5 diesel engine are available (price may vary). These engines are brand NEW blocks.
This engine can replace any GM 6.2 Liter (381 cid) or the GM 6.5 diesel engine.
This BRAND NEW 6.5L engine outperforms the original GM and AM General motor!

Quality * QS9000 Certification * Assembled By Very Experienced Technicians * Hot Tested
Engine Information For more information, visit our Frequently Asked Questions page

[16gaSxS]

IMNSHO;
I would buy a truck with a factory 6.5, it would be much easier and less costly. If your heart is set on doing a 6.5 swap then it would be easier to do a swap with a 1993 engine as the Injection Pump is not electronic and would be much easier to do. Thats just me for what the cost of the engine you can buy a whole truck and if you can get 50-100,00 miles out of before a rebuild your much better off.

[trbankii]

I agree with 16ga on all points. If you buy the long block, you're still going to need a lot of other parts to make the conversion - which you'll either be buying from the dealer new ($$$$) or scrounging junkyards to find. By the time you're done running around and paying for a part here and a part there, you'll be much better off and much easier to start with a running truck with rust or body damage and a good engine and go from there - even if it means tearing the engine down and rebuilding it during the swap.

[mn_powderhound]

There's one big problem with buying a used 6.5 equipped pickup. Around here they're not very common. If you do find one, it's usually got alot of miles on it and the body is usually pretty cancerous. Gas powered pickups far outnumber diesels in this area except for the Powerstrokes which are gaining popularity. The listing I showed is just the long block, however they do offer a complete package minus the computer.

[Kennedy]

Who is the supplier on the ad you posted?

[ronniejoe]

More Power has put together a short list of considerations for this type of swap. It can be found here (http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/swap.htm). Good luck!

[mn_powderhound]

Hiperformer is the company that listed this engine. They have an entire list compiled for all makes and models of vehicles. Just something I found online, wasn't sure how they compared to anyone else.

[mn_powderhound]

By the way ronniejoe, I'm not able to log into that page. But thanks for the reply. Still trying to track down as much info as possible.

[redbird2]

I did a gas to diesel swap last summer i purchased a donor truck.however I used trucks with the same body styles. I pulled the engine, harness and all brackets from a 96 k2500, I put everthing into a 1998 K3500. I would suggest you consider putting mechanical pumped engine instead of the electronic as the others suggested you will have a lot less problems. Here are a couple of problems you are going to run into, your truck doesn't have the mounting location for the ECM, would factory harness doesn't have all the power supplies you will need to graft in the electronic harness, your dash gauges will not talk to the engine with out more wiring nightmare. The mechanical engine you need a power supply to the fuel shut off solenoid ignition on, you will need power lead to glow plug relay hot all the time, a switched power source to tell relay to activate, and you will have to wire up your cold start circuit.

consider purchasing a old step van with 6.5 non turbo and get a turbo set up, I have picked them up for as little as 400.00 in the past with 90,000 on them they would have all the brackets you need and wiring, not-electronic.
then take the aluimum body to scrap yard, I recieved 700.00 for the last body I sold so made 300.00 and had good 6.5 and turbo 400, and 25 gallons of diesel. Just a suggestion

[ronniejoe]

By the way ronniejoe, I'm not able to log into that page. But thanks for the reply. Still trying to track down as much info as possible.

E-mail MP. If you can access here, you should be able to access that page. Jim will help you.

[Mark Rinker]

Regardless of your approach, be very diligent while researching suppliers of rebuilt 6.5 diesels.

By limiting your search to advertisers/members here on the DP, you will have effectively weeded out all the 'fly-by-nighters', and their are plenty out there.

Search this forum and others for more information...GOOD LUCK you are in the right place to get this project rolling!

[trbankii]

It took me quite a while to find my '93, I must admit. I knew I wanted the mechanical injection and a NV4500, so I had to be extra patient as that was only a brief crossover period in the timeline. It's not a beauty by any stretch of the imagination. But if you're looking for an engine just for a swap - body rust and damage is your friend because that will lower the price on the truck and you'll be hauling the body off to the junkyard anyway most likely.

The two issues with buying just an engine to install are the cost and getting everything hooked up right.

You know the old expression that "something is worth more than the sum of its parts" as they say? Well, with anything automotive it is the exact opposite. With my Toyota I bought a whole parts truck - running and inspected - for $450. Granted, it was pretty rough to look at. But I had been quoted a price of $700 for two doors, a transfer case, some interior pieces, and some other things that I needed at the local junkyard. And that was used - I don't want to think about what the parts would have cost new from the dealer - if I could even still get them all. The parts truck had the things I needed in good condition and I sold off a bunch of other things so I ended up with $150 in my pocket after all was said and done.

So with a donor vehicle, you'll have all the parts you need for the conversion. Granted, you'll have to replace some of them. But buying absolutely every item brand new is going to be several times the price of that whole used truck.

The other issue is that with a donor vehicle you have everything running when you start. Or, if it needs some work first you can get everything running while it is still in the factory configuration. THEN you can move it over to the "patient" and figure out how to make everything work in its new home.

As for not having many of the particular vehicles you are looking for around your area, the internet can be a great help. The truck I found was only half an hour away, but I had been seriously searching within a two-hour drive and would have driven further for the right truck at the right price. Just something else to consider.

[mn_powderhound]

Redbird made a good point by buying an old step van. That's something I never thought of. One reason for me not buying a newer pickup is that the one I'm working with is already loaded with a stout drivetrain other than the engine. About the only other thing I would want to swap is the transmission for an overdrive model. I can build a strong 700R4 by buying one from a newer pickup ('93-up), then use a mechanically controlled 6.5 engine. The major advantage is the simply designed solid axle front end. Simple is beutiful when it comes to a long lasting vehicle. I've already rebuilt the front steering system and parts of the suspension that were past their life. Sheetmetal is not impossible to find, however bodywork is the most expensive part. Main reason for going to a diesel is for the fuel economy and longevity. Being in college means pinching every penny and when I looked into buying a newer pickup, the insurance rates were insane. This pickup has never cost me much and has never really let me down. It just needs some tlc. I had preconcieved thoughts about the GM 6.5 that were obviously negative, but by joining web forums such as this, my thoughts have changed for the better.

[trbankii]

One reason for me not buying a newer pickup is that the one I'm working with is already loaded with a stout drivetrain other than the engine.

You may have misunderstood me - I was never implying to buy a new pickup to use/drive instead of yours. Just that buying a whole donor vehicle is going to be a lot more cost effective than buying all the related parts individually. Plus, you have the option of selling off the parts from the donor vehicle that you don't use.

[Mark Rinker]

In my opinion, the terms 'strong' and '700R4' are mutually exclusive terms. You'll want a transmission expressly set up for a diesel truck application to live happily behind the 6.5. This means a 4L80 or 4L80E depending on how you do the swap.

I will sell you truck #1 (listed below in my signature) for $3000. It is bone stock and fits the 'great runner with an ugly body' category. Everything including the motor, turbo, transmission/transfer case, wiring harness and ECM would be usable for your swap, including a new radiator, hi-flow water pump, heavy duty fan and clutch, 105amp alternator and two batteries under 1 year old.

You could do absolutely nothing but clean and swap the entire works and probably expect another 50-100K miles out of it. Or, go whole hawg and do splayed mains, ported heads, 18:1 pistons, or anything inbetween as you have the time and money.

The leftover 4.10 posi rear end, wheels/tires, gauge cluster, radio, seat, steering column (with new steering box) could be Ebay'd for at least $500 and the rest sold for scrap weight.

I am also right here in Elk River, Minnesota!

[mn_powderhound]

You may have misunderstood me - I was never implying to buy a new pickup to use/drive instead of yours. Just that buying a whole donor vehicle is going to be a lot more cost effective than buying all the related parts individually. Plus, you have the option of selling off the parts from the donor vehicle that you don't use.
I didn't misunderstand you, your opinion is greatly valued. I was replying to an earlier post reply that stated I should scrap the idea and buy a completly new vehicle. I'd like to find a donor rig for the swap because I think it would be an unusal project, but kinda cool too.

[mn_powderhound]

Wow, Mark you said you lived in Elk River. Well Crookston is not that far away. I'm having difficulty finding a suitable donor vehicle that is right in my area or even a complete replacement for my current pickup. I am very interested in diesels now, simply because I am a truck driver when not in school and the rising cost of gas. I figure with a diesel, even though our climate is certainly not the greatest, I can achieve decent fuel economy, power, and performance. By coming here I've learned alot about the 6.5 and I think it would actually be a decent replacement for the 350 gas.

[Mark Rinker]

If you get down to the Twin Cities on one of your trips, call me at 612.578.6355 and I'll meet you at Rogers truck plaza off I-94 and let you see the truck.

It was my first 6.5 and has served me well, but is the oldest in my small fleet and scheduled to be replaced this year. Both trucks #1 and #2 are flatbeds that originally were built as snow plow trucks for the City of Kansas City, Missouri. They were ordered out with the best HD options available at the time in 1994. They have not had easy lives, but have taken the work and given alot of service under less than ideal conditions.

#2 has a newer 1998 engine with about 105K total miles and all the goodies. I have more money wrapped up in that one, so will be keeping it around a few more years to get my payback. #1 has paid for itself a few times over.

[trbankii]

I didn't misunderstand you, your opinion is greatly valued.

Sorry for the confusion. Since your post was directly below mine, I figured you were responding to what I had said. No worries!

As far as Mark's offer, I doubt that you could do much better than that. I've never met him personally or done any business with him, but from his tenure here he has always come across as first rate. And his trucks are his livelyhood, so although they are used you pretty much know that they have been taken care of so that they will continue to serve him.

If it weren't for being a '94 (electronic injection) and the (I'm assuming) manual transmission, I'd be checking to see if Mark could bring the truck to the 2006 Rendevous for me...

[mn_powderhound]

That sounds like a pretty good deal Mark. I won't be able to start on this project until later this summer so if you sell the pickup before I ever get back to you that's fine, but thank you for the offer. I'll be sticking with this project and continuing to gather information as time goes on. I'd like to become as smart as possible before tackling the job. Well I'm sure some of you would like to see the project vehicle so I'll try to put some in my profile. You're all welcome to check it out and send some feedback.

[mn_powderhound]

Ok..well I guess I'll have to find another way to show some pictures. I'll let you all know when I get that figured out.

[mn_powderhound]

Well give this link a try if you'd like to look at some pictures. I'll add more as I get the chance.
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=2108701017

[JeepSJ]

As someone who has done (or is in process of) a gas to diesel swap, definitely try to source a COMPLETE engine. I started with a long block and it has been a major hassle finding all the pieces to make it complete. If I do it again, I won't do it the same way.

As for the 700R4 being weak...well, that depends on what you do to it. Mine is rated/warranted for up to 700ft/lbs.

[mn_powderhound]

That's a nice looking engine you've got in your Jeep. I'd like to do something similar. I'm having trouble deciding which year range of engine to use; '94-up electronic injection, or '93-down mechanical. I'm also trying to figure out how to make gauges work and what kind of wiring harness I'd need.

[JeepSJ]

Thanks! Mine has been converted to mechanical. I went with the 97 block because of the oil sprayers, but that was before I knew about the cracking problem with those. I'm hoping the main girdles will keep it together. I have played around enough with EFI on gassers, so I could have gone with the electronics and been totally comfortable with the integration of those systems into my Waggy, but I'm more for keeping things clean and simple. I don't want the ECU dying while I'm 500 miles down into Baja. As for gauges, I have all the stock Jeep gauges wired and fully functional, but I also have a full set of aftermarket gauges for everything.

[mn_powderhound]

Sounds like a great project. So I guess my next question would be, what block would be the best to use and why? I want something that is going to be reliable and dependable for a long time. Also, what did you do to convert the engine from electronic to mechanical? Is it just a pump swap?

[mn_powderhound]

I took a glance at some more of your pictures. I plan to swap the entire gauge panel anyway since most of the gauges have died and I want to get rid of the huge fuel gauge and put a tach in. I'm assuming you had to make the downpipe and motor mounts youself?

[JeepSJ]

You want to use the 599 block (guys, chime in if I screwed that up).

Converting to mechanical is basically swapping the pump (guys - this is in reference to engine swaps only - we all know that converting an electronic equipped truck to mechanical is much more involved).

The mounts are actually off-the-shelf GM conversion motor mounts for the Jeep. The 6.2/5 share the same bellhousing and engine mount locations as small and big block gas engines. My downpipe was fabbed - an aftermarket downpipe would have fit, but I could not find a 3.5" downpipe (at least not one that was 3.5" at the turbo end). Your swap is going be basically bolt-in and you can use all off-the-shelf parts.