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View Full Version : Sulfur: Good, Bad or Ugly ?



CleviteKid
07-01-2004, 04:04
Dr. Lee:

I was wondering if you could tell us why the sulphur (I think - whatever it is that makes our oil get black) is
1) bad for motor oil &
2) good for the injection pump.

Thanks, Brian


* * * * * * * *

Hi Brian,

Like most good questions, the answer is not easy.

First, sulfur can appear in many different forms. As hydrogen sulfide (found in various amounts in crude oil) it is very corrosive, and also poisonous. During refining this and other sulfur compounds are mostly removed or else converted to less harmful compounds of sulfur, carbon, hydrogen, and a few other elements.

Refined oils then get separated, hydrocracked, catalytically reformed, purified, etc. and we get them as diesel fuel, and as lube oil.

Taking the sulfur out of fuel is expensive. But the sulfur in the fuel will create sulfuric acid when it burns, and some of that gets into our lube oil via blowby, and tries to dissolve bearings, gears, crankshafts, etc. Sulfuric acid also poisons catalytic converters, which are on some diesels, and coming on future diesel engines. So the guv'mint has said "Take the sulfur out of the fuel". In taking out the sulfur, other oil components are either removed or broken down, and those other non-sulfur oil components were very good at lubricating injection pumps and injectors. Without those other compounds that were also inadvertently removed, wear and degradation of fuel system components increases.

So we are encouraged to use fuel system additives to restore the lubricity that was lost as a BYPRODUCT of lowering the sulfur in the fuel. Over the years, some have confused the correlation of low sulfur and low lubricity with a cause-and-effect relationship. Nope, the lack of sulfur does not CAUSE low lubricity, it just occurs at the same time. We can restore lubricity without adding sulfur. If the refiners would blend in the correct additives, we would not have to be buying Stanadyne Blue, Power Service, Plus8 and similar additives.

In lube oil, things are somewhat different. About 50 years ago lubrication chemists and lubrication engineers (they are not the same thing, and they will let you know it) discovered zinc dithiophosphate. The "thio" part means it contains sulfur. ZDP for short (unless you work at Lubrizol, then it is ZnDP) is sort of the miracle drug for motor oil. It is a very effective anti-oxidant, so it keeps motor oil from breaking down and varnishing up the engine at high operating temperatures. It is also a very excellent anti-wear agent, particularly in rubbing friction like camshafts, tappets, and piston rings and valve stems. Many gasoline engines (Chevy 350, Ford 4 cylinder) just will wear out in months without some ZDP in the lube oil.

But ZDP in the lube oil ends up in the combustion chamber, burns, and puts both sulfur and phosphorus into the exhaust. Both sulfur and phosphorus are poisons to the catalytic converters on gas engines, so the guv'mint is pressuring the lube oil industry to cut back on ZDP in lube oil, which they have.

The oils we usually use, CG-4, CH-4, and CI-4 have less ZDP with each generation of specifications. That is because these are "universal" oils - useable in gasoline engines as well as our diesels, and to keep the SJ, SL etc. ratings, they have to cut way back on sulfur and phosphorus.

So you see Brian, sulfur in the form of ZDP is good in lube oil, but sulfur in fuel forming sulfuric acid is bad for everything.

You can restore some of the ZDP to your oil by adding genuine STP to your lube oil. STP is a mix of viscosity index improvers (VI or thickeners) and ZDP. We don't need or want the viscosity index improvers in our oil (they mess up pistons and rings) so I use either STP new car formula, or STP 4-cylinder formula. These have all the ZDP, but less VI so they are good for diesel oil.

There will be a quiz tomorrow.

Dr. Lee :cool:

[ 07-01-2004, 04:26 AM: Message edited by: CleviteKid ]

moondoggie
07-01-2004, 05:43
Good Day!

Wow!

At some future time, perhaps you could address what those of us with injections pumps (6.2 & 6.5 engines) can do when they reduce the sulfur, coincidentally reducing the IP lubricants (see, I was listening :D ). I guess 2007 or thereabouts is when the big change in diesel fuel will happen

CareyWeber
07-01-2004, 18:37
Originally posted by CleviteKid:
Dr. Lee:You can restore some of the ZDP to your oil by adding genuine STP to your lube oil. STP is a mix of viscosity index improvers (VI or thickeners) and ZDP. We don't need or want the viscosity index improvers in our oil (they mess up pistons and rings) so I use either STP new car formula, or STP 4-cylinder formula. These have all the ZDP, but less VI so they are good for diesel oil.

There will be a quiz tomorrow.

Dr. Lee :cool: Dr Lee thank you for the lesson! :D :D

What ratio do you blend in the STP for a 6.5TD?

Do you just follow their instructions?

Carey

CleviteKid
07-02-2004, 05:10
Well, at least two of you were paying attention !!

I use the STP 4-CYLINDER OIL TREATMENT (http://www.stp.com/oil_4cyl.html) in the 15 ounce bottle, and add 1/2 bottle at every oil change.

Every user must evaluate this suggestion for his or her own use. If you run your engine particularly hot (coolant and EGT), the VI improver in STP may cause additional carbon and varnish deposits on your pistons and turbocharger. Since I don't tow anything and don't often carry heavy loads up long mountain roads, this doesn't apply to me, but may apply to YOU :eek: !

Dr. Lee :cool:

gmctd
07-02-2004, 06:12
Thanks, Dr. Lee - excellent stuff. Info, and product.

And on another, but somehow related note, I just rebuilt two T-400 transmissions, one 2wd and one 4wd. The ATP kits had Clevite replacement bushings. Also excellent stuff......
Thanks, Clevite Kid.

MTTwister
07-03-2004, 08:16
Dr Lee - "....would not have to be buying Stanadyne Blue, Power Service, Plus8 and similar additives".
I've read about adding engine Oil to the Fuel to increase lubricity for the IP. maybe Used oil with the STP additive in it? ( that would be carrying a lot of 'crud' in suspension, of course.)

Can you put that rumor to rest? Or is it a Shade Tree 'option'?

Thanks for this insight. Adding STP 4-cyl to my list of must haves...

CleviteKid
07-03-2004, 09:48
Adding used engine oil to the fuel will do the following:

* Get rid of the used motor oil.

* Save a little money by burning oil instead of fuel.

* Compensate for worn injection pumps and injectors.

* Contaminate the fuel system with acids, wear debris, varnish, and soot.

Some big trucks have a system with centrifuges and ultra filters that take a little oil from the engine and feed it to the fuel tank, and simultaneously pump some fresh oil from the clean oil tank into the engine. This was believed to keep the oil fresher, with continuous addition of additives to the engine oil, and pulling some of the junk out of the engine oil and putting it in the centrifuges and ultra filters.

That being said, I do add a little TC-W3 two-stroke oil (brand new, of course) to every tank of the stuff that passes for diesel fuel in this country. How much? About 1 ounce per 10 gallons of fuel. Not much. I also use Stanadyne Blue (3 ounces), and 8+ Cetane improver (2 ounces)in every tank (10 gallons into each of my pair of little side-saddle tanks).

Dr. Lee

:cool:

MTTwister
07-04-2004, 12:51
Thanks DOC! Have a Safe and Happy 4th!

Marty Lau
07-08-2004, 11:14
Dr. Lee sooooo what if we do town and run hot how can we get a good dose of the ZDP without the draw backs of STP? Also I was going to suggest the 2 cycle oil for IP lube. I know some people suggest good ole straight 30W oil but that stuff isn't "made" to be burn like 2 cycle oil. Am I on the right track or dose it matter?

moondoggie
08-12-2004, 05:18
Good Day!

Back on my 1 July post here, I asked,

CleviteKid
08-17-2004, 09:27
2-stroke oil, like the TC-W3 grade, is made to burn, and will impart some benefits to our pumps and injectors. I use a little bit with each fill-up.

For Brian, the Stanadyne additives will provide the lubricity we need. I would expect and hope (no guarantees) the Stanadyne will be increasing the lubricity additive in the Blue Label performance formula as the inherent lubricity of diesel fuel drops in the future. If you are really really concerned, you can always use both !!!

Dr. Lee :cool:

moondoggie
08-18-2004, 06:32
Good Day!

I'm going to start using Performance Formula soon. I'll most likely add Lubricity Formula when that becomes necessary.

As always, thanks & Blessings!

Brian Johnson, #5044