80hp / 150lb/ft chip?

[markrinker]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7962764827&category=33597

Anyone ever heard of this chip? Assuming it works, how would it stack up against the best programming from JK or BH?

[Kennedy]

Pie in the sky.

Time and time again, I've put my chip up against others and made more power with lower EGT's and no need for any supporting devices/linkages etc. I'd say my chip is MAYBE worth 40RWHP on a good day and a healthy breathing 6.5 in need of some fuel. Haven't had much opportinity to dyno test since I got my dyno. RJ had decent gains, BUT his truck already had HF injectors...

[rjschoolcraft]

Claims of 60 hp gain or 80 hp gain from a chip are just that...claims.

[Marty Lau]

Originally posted by ronniejoe:
Claims of 60 hp gain or 80 hp gain from a chip are just that...claims. Hey my neighbor has lots of chips in his pasture, I bet I could brew up some methane and get 80hp from those chips!!! tongue.gif

[rjschoolcraft]

:D :D

I guess I should be more specific. 80 hp or 60 hp electronic chips for 6.5TD engines are just that...claims.

[patrick m.]

i started with a "BD" chip. only one they offered.
did a few other things to the truck, and decided to get JK's chip.
i could tell the difference in power between the two.
someone once said any power improvement you can "feel" is at least 20hp. (of course this varies with vehicle size, weight etc.)

The e-bay chip may be a fine unit, but ill have to agree with the crowd, 80 hp is a stretch.

[arrowheadracing]

I bought the chip on ebay and havent had any problems with it. I will say that maybe, if lucky its pushing 40 hp tops. But most likekly around 15-25 hp like everyone elses. It did make a difference. But I am sure its just a copy of somone elses chip. For all the praise and such that everyone gives chips and what not. I am still with the fact that I bought the wrong truck and should have gotten a dmax. Why waste all the money on modifying a 6.5 to come close to the STOCK power of a dmax. Obviously money plays a matter if you cant afford a $45,000 truck. :(

So back to the subject, yes the ebay chip works. Would I recomend to anyone ? Yes for the price consicious. For $167 you cant beat that price. Beats everyones price for chips. Is it the best chip compared to eveyones ? Not sure. But if you had to spend $150-250 more to gain 10 more hp ( peak vs curve ? not sure ) from another chip, I think more people would buy the cheaper chip and be happy. Leaving only the diehards willing spend the extra money for the better chips.

Heres a link to the website.
http://www.performance-diesel.com/INDEX.html

I am not sure how his prices are compared for other makes and models. But he answered ( Ryan ) my questions fast and was good. If there was a group buy on the chips I am sure he would lower the prices even more. I myself paid $167 for the chip. I see now they are more money on ebay. I am sure with a little haggling, the price could be negotiated with.

Bottom line is , how many people hit the rollers with thier trucks to verify any of the chips make the claimed hp the vendor boosts? :confused: VERY VERY VERY few. ( I have to make special note here that some people do ( and I would love to hear your outcomes ) , or some people might take offense to it ) And if they ( customers ) did I am sure quite a few vendors would be refunding money to people. So for a vendor to claim , 25, 50 80 or 600 hp is not going to be really tested properly to make that claim valid. So hp sells, claim big #s , sell cheap , and they will definitely out sell anyone else. One major problem is that one truck may make 25 hp and put the chip in another with air cooling, #9 resistor, hi pop injectors, 4 " exhaust and more will make 40 hp.

I dont agree with selling tatics many vendors are using. :rolleyes: HP ratings have always been a pet peeve of mine. My outlook is, 9 seconds is 9 seconds regardless of 2 hp or 2000hp ( drag racing here 1/4 mile ). If the ebay chip gives you the power to do what you want then buy it. Be happy , count the money you saved and buy some gauges or something useful for your truck. If you have to believe that the $300-375 chip is going to be the only way to go, then buy it , be happy and next pay check buy the gauges or something useful for your truck. :D

One note with Ryan is that he was very friendly and offered to refund the money on the chip if I wasnt satisfied. I see most of the parts he has for the 6.5 are from Walt at www.SSdieselsupply.com. (http://www.SSdieselsupply.com.)

Just my 2 cents on what I have physically seen and tested myself. :D

One last thing I promise, I notice Ryan and others offering 25 40 hp ect, lower hp chips. I would be curious as to what the difference is. does the 25 hp chip just replace the stock ship and make only a actual 5 hp unoticeable difference ? :confused:

[rjschoolcraft]

Originally posted by arrowheadracing:
Bottom line is , how many people hit the rollers with thier trucks to verify any of the chips make the claimed hp the vendor boosts? :confused: VERY VERY VERY few. ( I have to make special note here that some people do ( and I would love to hear your outcomes ) , or some people might take offense to it ) Here you go.

6.5 Performance (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006650)

[JohnC]

My concern with buying a bargin basement chip is what is being done with things like EGT control and injection timing. Also what codes are being ignored and what safeguards are disabled. Anjyone can request a chip with the fuel rate boosted to X and the boost to Y, but what effect will it have on the longevity of the engine?

Maybe valid, maybe not.

[arrowheadracing]

Originally posted by JohnC:
My concern with buying a bargin basement chip is what is being done with things like EGT control and injection timing. Also what codes are being ignored and what safeguards are disabled. Anjyone can request a chip with the fuel rate boosted to X and the boost to Y, but what effect will it have on the longevity of the engine?

Maybe valid, maybe not. Very good point. While most people do not like to tell the source of where they are getting thier chips from. I would assume they are just copies of someone elses. You can buy a chip burner for around $500. So you could be up and running in a very short time. 10x chip burners are what was in a shop I was at that made thier own automated systems.

I would love to check out a couple of chips and record thier differences over a few months time. :D :D :D ;)

[arrowheadracing]

Originally posted by ronniejoe:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by arrowheadracing:
Bottom line is , how many people hit the rollers with thier trucks to verify any of the chips make the claimed hp the vendor boosts? :confused: VERY VERY VERY few. ( I have to make special note here that some people do ( and I would love to hear your outcomes ) , or some people might take offense to it ) Here you go.

6.5 Performance (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006650) </font>[/QUOTE]Just curious , where those raw #s averages or just single pulls. I know from running the dynos for Chryslers Viper race dept, that I could vary the pressure readings slightly and get totally different #s from 1 run to the next , even within minutes of running back to back tests.

I know dyno time cost money , and most people wont make avg runs when they are testing a few parts at a time. But we had to test each motor and it could not leave unless it made atleast 425 hp and 450 ft lbs. When in was friday quitin time and you only needed one more run to make the avg hp level to ship it, pressure readings where changed slightly to ensure you made the mark. :D Sad but true. :(

And a second point , I tested my GSXR and after a 250 mile ( mostly highway ) probably avg'ed close to 75 mph, I dynoed the bike and made 84.97 hp , just ran the bike 8 times and the power level kept coming up, the 9th and final run before power fell off was 92.89.

So even just running the motor and getting to temperature of 10-30 degrees within itself can make a difference.

Ronnie, I ask this because I know you seem to do alot of work with your setup. And maybe those are avg #'s. I just see a great improvement with the first chip. But I also wonder how was the torque curve with the timing changed. As that seemed to make the biggest improvement of all torque wise ( thats all we want anyways ).

Thanks
Todd

[rjschoolcraft]

Those were averages of at least three pulls for each condition. The numbers are raw...the correction would have made them higher.

If you read through the post, you know that the basic configuration was not stock with the stock chip. It was with HP injectors, intercooler, K&N filter, Banks exhaust and #9 resistor.

The final configuration shown there is up about 85 hp over a stock 97 Suburban that John tested later (I don't have stock numbers for mine).

While John's chip was the heart of the increase, it needed the mechanical foundation of the other mods to get there. I've run a Heath 2.0 chip in my truck (not on the dyne yet) and it doesn't have the power that the Kennedy chip does. The exhaust temps are higher with it as well.

One problem with the data shown there is that the filter on the data collection computer was set for every 250 rpm instead of every 50 rpm. As a result, only five points per run were recorded. We didn't figure that out until after I left.

[arrowheadracing]

Thats a bummer about the rpm thing. I know I learned alot about dyno operations while I played with the viper motors. Once in awhile they would throw a juicy big motor to us to play with. I ran a 600 cube indy head motor with all the bells and whistles. We made 1600+ hp with it. That was fun.

I just ask about the timing, as that seemed to really push torque. I know its a whole combination of parts that make the outcome, but I have the whole combination of parts and the timing , injectors and air cooling are the only things left I dont have done. I believe my injectors are original ( 140,000 ) and looking to replace them this summer. If I am going to be down doing that , I am also going to do the timing.

Do you have the plot for that run vs the other runs. I am curious to see how much flatter or fatter the torque became, or if it was just a peak that showed that much more power.

Thanks for the info smile.gif

[rjschoolcraft]

I'm a little confused.

The data shown in the plots is cumulative. The first line shows the results of the stock chip (with the other listed mods). The second line (biggest change) was with the Kennedy chip. The third line was with the chip plus a boost controller added to the BARO sensor. The last line included the chip and the boost controller plus TDC offset at -1.94 deg.

I must not be understanding your question.

[arrowheadracing]

What I am looking for is an average of power over a given rpm range. Lets say where torque starts to roll on, I ll just shoot out numbers for example sake.

Rpm Torque
1000 400
1050 404
1100 408


To something like 2500 where torque rolls off

2400 422
2450 422
2500 420

And being able to say in run one the average torque output is 400 + ft lbs from 1400 to 2300 rpm , but switching to the boost controller run the torque range is 1000 to 2500 where torque is 400+.
Showing an rpm gain and maybe being able to do the same thing with the torque range and say that run (a) made 400 ft lbs max , run (b) made 422 ft lbs max and a 18 ft lbs increase across the board over run (a).

What I am really interested in seeing is :

1 Do the chips make a more across the board gain , meaning you might hit a high of 400 ft lbs at 2500 rpm, but at 2000 rpm it had a spike in it where torque dropped to 370 ft lbs and then climbed back up with the old chip, but now the new chip corrected this problem and now you see a full 398 ft lbs of torque in that area. Meaning you got a +28 ft lb increase at that point, but peak power was up maybe only +20 ft lbs at the peak level.

2. Does the boost also show a peak or across the board gain.

3. Lastly by changing the timing does that make the torque curve flatten out and become longer in the rpm range ? ( meaning become fatter ). I believe it would and since I am not interested in peak power #'s as those have little to do with performance levels, since you are not at your peak level rpm all the time, but more importantly across a broad range of rpm in the lower area. Thats where I want to see the power changes. Where I ll feel it the most.

I also ask these questions as I am getting ready to take my truck to a wheel dyno and have it run. I bring quite a bit of motorcycle buisiness to these guys and they told me to just swing in one day and we can throw the truck up there and play with it one evening as long as I brought the beer. They are really Dmax and Powerstroke knowledgeable and pull some very astounding #s out of both those trucks. Some I am anxious to see what I compare to yours and to these other dmax ps trucks.

Thanks

PS thats why I was wondering if you had the graphs and I could just map it out and see what it did average wise.

[rjschoolcraft]

I guess that's why I'm confused...

The graphs are posted in that thread, in a later post. Scroll on down and you will see them. They're also available at http://www.schoolcraftpowertrain.com/index_files/Page414.htm

Hope this helps.

P.S. I don't have graphs of the individual runs, just graphs of the averages.

Edited to fix the hyperlink.

[ 03-23-2005, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: ronniejoe ]

[arrowheadracing]

Yep thats what I was looking for. I guess I didnt scroll down far enough.

Thanks

[rjschoolcraft]

As you can see from those plots, the torque curve is flatter and broader as a result of the mods. The biggest difference is at about 2550 rpm... which is where a lot of my highway towing miles are spent.

[arrowheadracing]

I noticed that the chip seemed to be the reason why it was dead on top, and once that was taken care of the other parts just enhanced the gains slightly. Though the boost controller one ( I am assuming that since I cant look right at it right now as I type ) spiked in one area. I know you say you didnt get boost #s written down, but I wonder what caused that spike, and for it not to show up in the next run with timing changed. The timing did exactly what I thought it would do and even changed the top end a little, I am suprised with that.

Good work
:D