Saga of a 94 4x4 Suburban's R&R The Dang-"ling" tail pipe

[Low_Bridge]

Well the 94 is starting to drip a little down the front center of the motor-

I've crawled all over her and I can't see where the leak is coming from!!

There is fluid coming down the hose

But none around the water pump snout?

A little splashed on the balancer?

In hopes, I tightend up the lower hose but may have just made it worse- :confused:

Or maybe it's just my imagination since it didnt go away-

(Maybe the HOSE is whipped)

Any tips to DX is or isn't the water pump?

Thanks
Bill

[ 11-29-2005, 03:30 AM: Message edited by: Bill D'Addio ]

[More Power]

There should be a weep hole under the bottom center of the water pump snout. If coolant is found there, the water pump seal is toast.

Run your fingers along the underside of the snout. Sometimes a slow or intermittent leak will be slow enough to mostly evaporate, but a crusty residue will remain, and you'll see evidence of it on your fingers if that's the leak source.

MP

[twaddle]

Hi Bill,
See if you can beg, borrow or buy a cooling system pressurising kit.

It is a hand operated air pump, similar to the kind of thing you would blow a bicycle tyre up with.
It has an adapter that fits on in place of your radiator cap. DO NOT install it onto the expansion tank.
There is also a pressure gauge on the hand pump. Pressurise the cooling system to NO MORE THAN 15psi then start looking for the leak or leaks.
Also if there is coolant loss the gauge will drop in pressure.

This tool saves a lot of time and you don't always need to get the engine up to operating temperature to find a leak. It also cuts down the chance of burnt hands and wrists.

Good luck

Jim Twaddle
Biggar, Scotland

[Low_Bridge]

Thanks guys thats a big help-

The weep hole is what I always knew to be a sure sign. I just couldn't find / see it- or if I did it was dry & discounted it but now I know to look on the bottom-

Thanks

[Low_Bridge]

Well I've got her pulled in the garage. The water pump snout was floppin around. So that gets replaced for shure.

I got the PS Bracket off & the ac bracket almost off for water pump R&R.

@ 162 miles she has run flawless since the new PMD @ 155k-

Question: I don't want to; But what about a fresh timing chain?

Opinions ?

Thanks

PS the wife said I could sell it if I find her a nice pre 94 PMD/FSD Suburban ;)

[ 07-05-2005, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Bill D'Addio ]

[Low_Bridge]

Whats's up with having to pull the top half of the timing cover off to r&R the water pump?

I'm loosing my good attitude :(

[charliepeterson]

Follow the outline of the plate the water pump is on. The entire plate comes off. Sometimes you can miss one or two bolts which are covered up with grease and dirt. After all the bolts are out the plate should have some silicone sealant on the perimeter. Don't use more pulling pressure than you think you need, you may have one more bolt somewhere.

It's not a bad idea to replace the thermostat and all hoses now.

[Low_Bridge]

Ok so it's a new day -got it all off last night-

QUestion? Is there not a gasket between the block & the plate? Just RVT?

[MTTwister]

Bill I got a gasket from NAPA, and used some sealant on both sides "just to be sure". Oh, they had to order it in, but usually next day delivery up here.

Not all back together yet, tho'. Kind of a ballet as to which part needs to go on before the other. Maybe tonight after work I can make some progress.


edit: BTW - did you decide to do the timing chain? Seems like a "good idea" with those miles, and as long as your "in there" ( well, actually looks like a bunch more krap has to come off to get to the chain.... )

Good Luck!

[Low_Bridge]

When you took yours apart did it have a gasket between the plate & the block?

Mine didn't, maby that's where the leak started?

I'm paranoid to put it back together without a gasket-

[MTTwister]

There was no gasket. The crud I scrapped off looked more like side moulding adhesive gone dry than anything worth while.

The water pump side did have a gasket and was well adhered to the plate ( lotsa razor scraping, sand paper, wire wheeling to get it 'sterile')

edit - another BTW - the 4 bolts that pass through the water pump, front cover, to the block are open to the cooling passages in the block. A couple of mine were pretty rusty, so I put RTV on the threads before I put them back in.

[Marty Lau]

The pump is sealed with an anerobic sealer, most good parts stores have it the stuff works good lasts long time. I would change the timing gears out and chain out should run about $130-140 for the timing set, your 80% there.

[Low_Bridge]

Question:If I change out to all new gears & chain & mark before taking apart will & need to re-time?

The ip gear doesn't get replaced? (usually?)

New Balancer too?

With all I've read I may be looking at a cooling mode too. I'd like the gears but I'd better put the money in the balancer & cooling-

Any pointers appreciated

I'm a little in the dark over diesel timing over a small block chevy :(

[ 07-11-2005, 07:04 AM: Message edited by: Bill D'Addio ]

[CoachWagner]

Are you going to put in the 97+ HO water pump? I put that in last summer and put in Kennedy's fan clutch and 9 blade fan this summer. They both made a big differnce in cooling.

[schamp]

If you have had any brake issues ie solf pedal now would be a good time to replace the power steering pump. It has already served you for 165k miles. You already have it off. Good luck.
schamp

[Low_Bridge]

Originally posted by schamp:
If you have had any brake issues ie soft pedal now would be a good time to replace the power steering pump. It has already served you for 165k miles. You already have it off. Good luck.
schamp WOW $ HMM somthing to think about she doesn't stop any thing like my Blazer & now that you mention it it is kinda soft $$$ :mad: $$$

Craps!! I guess if anything I touch down their doesn't look virgin I'll axe it!!!

And Man that clutch fan weighed a ton~!!

PS all in favor of a new balancer?

[ 07-11-2005, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Bill D'Addio ]

[ANXIOUS-SUBMAN]

My Helms manual called for removing the power steering pump to get the water pump off too. But in no way did it interfere with the water pump or backing plate so I didn't remove mine. It wasn't even close to interfering in any way. I can't understand why the manual said to remove it.

[Low_Bridge]

I only took off the PS Bracket-

Got the gasket set from Nappa, then they wanted a different price to order in the chain & gears so CarQuest got my money for the chain & gears- everyones got balancers so I'll pick one up once I fiqure out if my old kent moore stuff will get it off & on-

Question: It is the common wisdom to replace the balancer at this time? Right?

[ 07-12-2005, 05:10 AM: Message edited by: Bill D'Addio ]

[MTTwister]

Bill - is it the Balancer? or the Lower pulley that has the 'shock absorber" built in? Or both - What the hay- it's only $$$!

[Low_Bridge]

Originally posted by MTTwister:
Bill - is it the Balancer? or the Lower pulley that has the 'shock absorber" built in? Or both - What the hay- it's only $$$! I have know idea - tonight I pull the radiator to send out to be gone over so I guess I'll find out- being it's the next step

If it was ONLY money Ida bought the gear drive :(

I think I bought a volvo wagon 940 for the family to tool around in- heck when you wrench on em youself you need a back up!

[d]

Bill- I changed my balancer when I put in a gear timming set. It seemed to be a good idea when the alternative to a bad balancer is a broken crankshaft. Both the timing chain and balancer seemed to be living on borrowed time. (160k miles)
If you got the water pump and backing plate off you don't have too much more to do for timming chain replacement and have peace of mind that things are done right on an older engine.

[Low_Bridge]

Well I probably hold the record for R&R the water pump & chain - But the old 6.2 has done it's duty for towin & the Volvo has held together

But with Wilma starin me in the face I figure I've got two days to thrash her back together :eek:

I got the balancer off tonight & tomarrow pull the chain & reassemble -

any tips would be appreciated especially on how not to have to reset the timing. She purred like a tiger before I tore her down~!

[Barry Nave]

Before removing timing chain you lined up the marking dots on crank and vavle cam,YES.
You can use any type of stright edge to make sure the markes or stright up and down and inline. No need to retime unless timing had been done lately with worn chain. Retime may not be a bad idel though ;)
BTW- Nothing wrong with a DS4 pump system,thats an eazy cure :D

[Low_Bridge]

OK she's all apart-

Water pump was 80% there? :confused:

No Gasket in my NAPA kit where the cover goes up against the pan?

Is that right? What do I use?

[HammerWerf]

Bill,

I just replaced my chain last Christmas. The front cover - Oil Pan interface uses good ole RTV. Make sure that you have them reasonably oil free ( wipe several time w/ brake cleaner).

I made sure that I had a bit extra in the corner where the pan, block and front cover come together. From what I saw, when the factory assembled it, they put the RTV on the oil pan and then assembled, making for a good seal at that joint. My fear was an oil leak at that spot. I've never had good luck putting on the front cover on a SBC with the pan in place.

As a By the way, These engine were assembled using RTV like gasket makers Try and let them cure for a while before splashing them with oil, but given Wilma, when you gotta go, go.

You anywhere near Tampa St Pete? Use to live there.

HammerWerf

[Kennedy]

This would sure be a good time to upgrade to the HO cooling mods...

[Low_Bridge]

Originally posted by kennedy:
This would sure be a good time to upgrade to the HO cooling mods... Yes it would, but nothings going to be cool if Wilma hits a home run in my back yard. I'm 5 miles from the gulf and on the Anclote river immediatly north of Tarpon Springs. I get this puppy purring again & If need to get out of dodge I can take some important business essentials as well as a second trailer!

All your help is appreciated!!

Now back to reassembly session!

[Low_Bridge]

I think I'm pretty happy!!

I havn't started her in 3 months & at first I thought I had some valve train rapping but fully warmed up she went away--

SOMEONE redface.gif opened the diesel petcock valve by the thermostat & when I cranked her up diesel squirted all over the radiator (I hadn't yet snaked the hose back down in between the water pump)

On my first test drive she really seemed weird I guess replacing the batteries & everything the computers had to rethink the situation.

( The batteries got donated to the 6.2 when I couldn't jump her off any more after sitting more than a day)

So I take her on another test drive and she runs great! I didnt touch the pump timing just put everything back togehter the same way!

New timing chain & gears
New balancer
New waterpump
Two New Batteries

But everytime I turn her off I get some fuel leakin from the back of the motor showin up running down the starter side & down dripping off the bell housing :confused:

Oh & the hurricane? Well we're out of the cone & in about twelve more hours it's supposed to hit about 200 miles south of here!

Now I'm prayin for ya'll down that way-

Any guesses on the fuel leak?

[GMCfourX4]

Bill;
My guess on the fuel leak is the connections on the fuel filter. It sits right in the V under the intake manifold, and will leak down the back of the motor. You should be able to see in there with a good light... I'm about to do the same job you just did, but add in an oil leak that I thought was the pan gasket and ended up being the rear main!

-Chris

[DA BIG ONE]

Wilma is now knocking at my side door its feeder bands are whipping up right now, expect it to get worse until about mid-day. The latest forecast puts the eye just south of me.

When I start to see 100+ mph gusts I'll pull my uplink off the bird and ride it out, can only hope for the best at this point.

Good luck to those of you in South Florida.

[Low_Bridge]

I'm in a corner of the Anclote River here North of Tarpon Springs. Last night out of paranoia I dropped my shutters. So we cannot enjoy the windy murky day! The wind is blowin down river so it's pretty melo right now.

[Low_Bridge]

Originally posted by GMCfourX4:
Bill;
My guess on the fuel leak is the connections on the fuel filter. It sits right in the V under the intake manifold, and will leak down the back of the motor. You should be able to see in there with a good light... I'm about to do the same job you just did, but add in an oil leak that I thought was the pan gasket and ended up being the rear main!

-Chris That was my guess but I thought there might be some "Anomalie" caused by my petcock being opened at initial start up. Heck I've had her over a year now so it's time for a new filter anyway. So I guess I'll lurk around that area.

I didn't have any dripping there before the water leak-


Thanks for the reply.

PS the only tool I didn't have was one of those little TorX with the tits in them for the timing mark where it was bolted on the timing cover. But I was still able to acces the 15MM bolt behind it with an open end. Used air tools whereever I could. You wouldn't know it by how long it's been down but really sped up dissassembly and re-assembly! Of course all final tourqing by hand :D

[ 10-24-2005, 04:49 AM: Message edited by: Bill D'Addio ]

[Low_Bridge]

:confused:
The fuel leak went away by itself?
:D

[Low_Bridge]

and then it came back-

So after research here I decided it was the fuel filter housing-

But I finally got my self heaved over the truck to check it & yep all three lines dry but at the bottom all wet it seemed as it was coming from the electrical fitting

So I called "Pinnsilar" and hope to have a new housing in a few days!

[Low_Bridge]

The tranny dipstick was replaced and though little grunting & tweaking of the tube was involved. I got it in so If you are daring enough to bend a little hear & there as you drop her down you wont need to pull the transmission. I did remove one of the lifting ring bolts as it was real close to the path. The old one dropped down through the bottom because the mouting bracket was broken off. The new one I dropped in from the top. About $26.XX form GM. & of course I covered holes to keep any mung from droppping in the tranny.

The dip stick now slides in & out nice & easy.

NEXT Thanks Peninsular Engines!!!

They sent me a new filter & housing for bout $37..+ Delivered!!! Pretty easy R&R BUT I thought I had misdiagnosed becuse until I cranked the black ring down with a pipe wrench she kept leaking. But I had read that It took alot of tightening on other posts!

Input / Questions ?

I primed the fuel filter by taking the bleeder top of the and pouring diesel in through the filter.

I thought that I should of been able to turn the key on & pump it through to purge the air out of the filter ? What did I do wrong? Or?

2ND Once I got the fuel to stop leaking we loaded the Truck up with laptops, kids & a vision of a 3 day vaction in Orlando!! She ran flawless!! :D


But on the way home at about 25 MPH & negotiating an on ramp to get on the intestate I put the pedal to the boards she started to get up and go & then acted like she was starving for fuel. So I backed of & went back to driving her like a little ole lady :confused: She cranks idles & runs flawless otherwise. :cool:

[Philsky]

Hey Bill,

Thank you, after all of your posts and reposts and peoples responses, you have given me the road map of what to do and how ot do it.

I started collecting parts and I will do the mass overhaul all at one time. new HO water pump fan and clutch, new FSD, radiator rebuild, but I was curious about the chain versus gear drive issue?

As for your fuel leak, that happened to me way south in Mexico, I stopped to buy a soda and saw fuel pouring out of my Suburban. I found a diesel mechanic who fixed it monday morning because church kept him from fixing it. I paid him forty buck and I was on my way back to good old Los Angeles.

Phil

[Low_Bridge]

If she was a keeper I think I would have put the gear drive in. My research around this board revealed a few members noting improved throttle response with a gear.

I would have don cooling mods but she sits on 185 all day long and I did have the radiator gone over while she was out.

So more money left to detail her our for resale

and ad the 285's

[Low_Bridge]

The last 2 times I changed the oil I was always under the gun & yes that front drive shaft, side mounted filter lead to the Valdez spill in my garage.

Not in a hurry I learned

1. To point the handel of my filter wrench upwards, more like between the block & the frame to get it on the filter.

2. Cut a 2 liter plastc soda container down the middle execpt for the pour end position it under the filter at an angle and loosen the filter until it could start to drain into the bottle directed into a oil catch. (Tip I learned from here.)

3. Then pulling the soda bottle out I could control the oil spill with what was remaining in the belly of the soda bottle.

4. Then I unscrewd the filter off the rest of the way trying to keep it level as not cause a major spill.

Thanks guys.

New Findings :

1. Tailpipe almost broken off behind Muffler :(

2. The air pump thing under the AC compressor is makin a racket & I noticed she's real out of line in the belt path - will investigate after cool down. Must of got something wrong when I put it in back on after the chain R&R.

Question:

1. What the heck is that catalytic converter thingy doing infront of the muffler?

2. Any suggustions for mods in this area while I'm in there or a good supplier to bolt in a pipe with out a cat?

3. Should I just run it down to "Goobers" & have him repair it?

I thought diesel exhaust systems did'nt rust? :confused:

[ 11-29-2005, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: Bill D'Addio ]