18' Flatbed???

[CareyWeber]

I have a chance to by a almost new 18' flatbed trailer and I to know if its a fair price.

He wants $1,850.00 for it.

Specs:
18' x 84" (no dovetail)
2 6K lbs axles 8 lug
hydraulic brakes(are these as good or better than Electric brakes)
5 load-range E tires and wheels
Wood deck
No rub rail
No ramps (I need ramps so I

[Tough Guy]

What brand is the trailer, and what year?

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by Tough Guy:
What brand is the trailer, and what year? Tough Guy,

Its a very good quality home built by a High Scool AG class 2 years ago for the schools princple.

All lights are sealed and grommet mounted.

Carey

[DonG]

When you say hydraulic brakes, are they drum or disk??? If they are disk; they are a lot better than the magnet brakes that most trailer come with. If they are hydraulic drums; then I believe they are very much like the magnet drums.

One note: The Prodigy brake controller will not work properly with hydraulic brakes. It requires electric brakes to work properly.

Don

[CareyWeber]

Which is better Hydraulic or Electric brakes?

[DonG]

Hydraulic Disk brakes are the best. That is what cars and trucks have gone to in recent years for the best stopping power. Old style brakes are drum brakes. Electric brakes use magnets to activate drum style brakes. That is 60 year old technology.

Most trailer brakes that use hydraulic disk brakes still use the same style of controller in the tow vehicle to activate the trailer brakes. However; although the Prodigy will activate the hydraulic disk brakes, most of the features of the Prodigy will NOT work on the hydraulic brakes.

Don

[fogg65td]

I thought the best brakes would be dics brakes, and as far as i know they are only aviable in hydrolic form, which would be a hydrolic piston on the trailer cupler or a controller form the truck. The latter is the best in my current opinion but feel free to prove me wrong.

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by fogg65td:
I thought the best brakes would be dics brakes, and as far as i know they are only aviable in hydrolic form, which would be a hydrolic piston on the trailer cupler or a controller form the truck. The latter is the best in my current opinion but feel free to prove me wrong. This Trailer has hydraulics made into the coupler.

He also said that it would automatically switch off when backing up.

I don't know yet if they are disk or drum brakes.

[DonG]

With the hydraulic piston in the coupler, the trailer brakes do not "brake" until the piston feels the tow truck slow down and push into the piston. This type of brakes are mostly used on light weight trailers. I am not familiar with the type of brake pads used. There is no controller in the tow vehicle.

Don

[CareyWeber]

The brakes a drums.

Only 1 axle has brakes.

I got him talked down to $1600.00 does that sound good.

I know the hydraulic brakes are for 6K lb axles. I have seen quite a few hydraulic brake setups on big boat trailers ie triple and quad axle trailers for big boats, so I know they are made for handling weight.

Carey

[Colorado Kid]

What it has is Surge brakes . . . they're very common on boat trailers where they are preffered because electric brakes don't like to be submerged.

Automatically defeating the surge brakes in reverse is a good trick . . . most of them will lock solid if you try to back uphill.

Surge brakes are usually not as smooth as electrics, and they ultimately can't stop quite as fast because there's no way the trailer can pull back on the tow vehicle, but the performance is close. Also break-away function is harder accomplish with surge brakes.

I'm not in favor of brakes on one axle only, regardless of type. Every axle should have brakes.

The biggest advantage of surge brakes (besides the previously stated advantage for baot trailers)is that any vehicle with the proper sized ball is equiped to operate the trailer brakes. . . no controller required.

[Turbine Doc]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I sort of remember reading somewhere that hydraulic brakes could not work with ABS systems true or false?

[Colorado Kid]

Brakes which tapped into the Master Cylinder hydraulicly to operate a brake controller are not compatible with ABS. I haven't seen one of those old hydraulically actuated electric trailer brake controllers for years, but they were the best of the best when they were new. Trailer braking was absolutely proportional to tow vehicle braking.

Surge brakes are compatible with abs equiped tow vehicles.

Electrically actuated hydraulic brakes, where there is an electrically operated master cylinder on the trailer, are also compatable with ABS, but may not be completely compatible with some electric trailer brake controllers (e.g. Tenkosha Prodigy).

Are you :confused: yet?

[Sneaks]

Originally posted by tbogemirep:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I sort of remember reading somewhere that hydraulic brakes could not work with ABS systems true or false? With surge brakes, ABS makes no difference. The trailer hydraulic brake system is completely isolated from the truck hydraulics. The earlier poster is correct, backing is near impossible with surge systems unless either the system has a backing "bypass" device or ya make one. A cheap method is to jam a piece of wood between the moving head and the trailer itself before attempting to back up. Either way, forgetting to remove or disable the backup device means no brakes so use one with discretion.

[MartyB]

Another problem with surge brakes, is if the TV is lighter or close to the same WT as the TV, then they do not break as well either. Having "been there, did that" with surge brakes, will not get another one.
I also agree with the "You should have brakes on ALL the axles", your defeating the purpose of brakes if only on an axle, and some states only having brakes on one axle is not legal.

Marty

[Wendell Sorrell]

I helped a buddy with installing an automatic override switch on a Ranger Trail boat trailer. The trailer had a solenoid that bypassed the hydraulics when in reverse. You need to tie into the back-up lights to "override" anytime you're in reverse. I was doing a professional tie in when I discovered GM had already provided a connection for this (at least on the Blazer)and it was concealed up under the bumper, well DUH!

[Viking]

The hydraulic/disc brake setup is now available for our size of trailers at a reasonable price. It is a closed circuit hydraulic system on the trailer, consisting of a pump,reservoir and lines to the discs.The pump spools up and supplies pressure to the brakes when it receives the electric signal from the brake controller. I am considering upgrading my 5th wheel to this system.

[Kennedy]

Hydraulic brakes are good,BUT the surge type of coupler sucks IMHO.

The backing up thing applies, the weight thing applies, as does the slippery surface thing.

I believe that they do not meet Fed guidelines, especially for commercial purposes, but rentals get away with it.

IIRC, the law reads that the brakes must be capable of safely controlling the movement of the vehicle, and to stop and to HOLD it. I also believe there MAY be a stipulation that the driver be capable of applying the brakes manually...

Whatever the case may be, the laws are seldom recognized or enforced in many states.

Are these trailer axles, or old FF truck axles?

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by kennedy:
Are these trailer axles, or old FF truck axles? John,

These were new trailer axles when it was made 2 years ago.

I though the big advantage would be to use the same spare as my truck, and be able to use worn truck tire sets as replacement trailer tires.

One other thing is 16" load range E truck tires last better than most 15" tires.

Carey

[Kennedy]

Doesn't sound too bad aside from the brakes. Hard to judge the construction though.

I'd suggest looking into the afformentioned electro-hydraulic controllers though, and weld on a solid coupler (forged if you plan for 12k GVW) for 2-5/16" ball.

Leads me to another question, what size ball?

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by kennedy:
Leads me to another question, what size ball? Its setup for a 2" ball.

[ropinfool]

I could be wrong but I don't think there are any 2" balls out there rated for more than 6k. So in fact you would only be buying a trailer rated at 6k. I think I would pass. When I was selling trailers, I sold one I wish I would have kept for myself, 18', 10k gvw, electric brakes both axles, dovetail, elect. winch, 16" tires. rub rail, wood deck. This was a trade in, sat on my lot for a few months (of course I used it alot personally) and finally sold it for $2500, which was at a profit! So keep your eyes open and you'll never know what will turn up. Good luck. John

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by ropinfool:
I could be wrong but I don't think there are any 2" balls out there rated for more than 6k. So in fact you would only be buying a trailer rated at 6k. I think I would pass. When I was selling trailers, I sold one I wish I would have kept for myself, 18', 10k gvw, electric brakes both axles, dovetail, elect. winch, 16" tires. rub rail, wood deck. This was a trade in, sat on my lot for a few months (of course I used it alot personally) and finally sold it for $2500, which was at a profit! So keep your eyes open and you'll never know what will turn up. Good luck. John John,

JC Whitney has for as long as I can remember listed a 2" ball with a 1 and 3/8" shank rated at 10K lbs, but that is the only one I have ever seen.

I wish I had time to watch for one, but Uncle Sam gave me 45 days notice of my move. I lost the engine in my Diesel Scout 2 weeks before I found out about the move, so I need a trailer ASAP.

Carey

[Burner]

Convert-A-Ball .... I have the SS shank and ball system as well as the hitch. 1&5/8, 2" and 2&5/8 are rated for 10k as well as the hitch. I have pulled just over 20k off my 2&5/8 ball so weight is not an issue. However, if you have a wreck and "any" under rated part fails, insurance will not cover it if they catch it. Also, the lawyers will have a field day with it. The only "liable" entity will be you. It will be called "ignorance" but they will call you stupid and prove fault on you. That means, "you pay" for all damages, not the insurance company.

Burner------> :D

[CareyWeber]

Here is what I finally ended up getting it was $300 less than the used on I was looking at. It has 2 3500lb axles rather than 6k lbs axles, but it will work to haul my scout.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2579428801&category=41496&rd=1

I also ordered a PRODIGY brake controller online for $88.

Carey