Question on rear locking diff?

[Chris611]

I have found a Eaton posi carrier for a GM 10.5" full floating differential. The ad says it came out of a 2003 Chevy 3500. Will this fit in my '97 K2500? I believe that I have the 14 bolt rear end and a full floater (it has the hubs sticking out of the rear wheels). How hard is the install? I would like to get some sort of locking diff before this winter. Currently I have a "one wheel wonder" and it makes it hard to get around in 2wd.

Thanks
Chris

[TAG]

Very easy to bolt in - setting up properly another matter. Variations in housing & carrier dimensions require pinion depth & backlash adjustments. Not a quick or simple procedure.

[cruzer]

The easiest thing to do is buy a detroit locker.
There about $330-350 and you do not have to worry about setting up the gears. Remove spiders and replace w/the locker.

[JoeyD]

The 03 is the 11.5 in and yours is the 10.5 in. Wrong one. I second a locker and would go with the detroit. Very easy to install and will always work.

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by Chris611:
I have found a Eaton posi carrier for a GM 10.5" full floating differential. The ad says it came out of a 2003 Chevy 3500. Will this fit in my '97 K2500? I believe that I have the 14 bolt rear end and a full floater (it has the hubs sticking out of the rear wheels). How hard is the install? I would like to get some sort of locking diff before this winter. Currently I have a "one wheel wonder" and it makes it hard to get around in 2wd.

Thanks
Chris Chris,

If the unit is from a 2003 GM pickup then I doubt it will work. The new style trucks have either a 14 bolt SF (9.5") ring gear (light duty 2500's) if the truck is an HD then it uses the new 11.5" 14 bolt.

If the unit is from a van they I have know idea.

Carey

[ 11-24-2004, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: CareyWeber ]

[Chris611]

Thanks for the info. Cruzer mentioned a detroit locker that would drop in without haveing to reshim the carrier. Which model is this and how does it work?

Thanks
Chris

[DmaxMaverick]

The 03 is the 11.5 in and yours is the 10.5 in. Wrong one. I second a locker and would go with the detroit. Very easy to install and will always work.
If the unit is from a 2003 GM pickup then I doubt it will work. The new style trucks have either a 14 bolt SF (9.5") ring gear (light duty 2500's) or the new 11.5" 14 bolt. HUH???

Any new(er) (1999+ Sierra/Silverado) 2500/2500HD/3500 (and I think the 1500HD) with the 6.0L gasser engine will have a 14 bolt full floater rear end, the same one used in previous years in the 2500HD/3500 C/K. I don't know if they are identical and a direct replacement, but the spec's are the same.

The lighter 9.5" semi-floater r/e was used in the 2500LD and some 6.5L 1500 C/K's.

The rear end carrier you found should work fine, but a set-up would be required. Many shops will do it for less than $100 if you bring it in assembled.

The Detroit locker is a good solution, if you don't mind its characteristics. Eaton also has a drop-in E-Locker which will install similar to a Detroit. The advantage with the E-Locker is it's electrically controlled by a switch. No hammering on corners, unless you want it that way.

Detroits are fine for off roaders, but NOT a solution for a daily driver/grocery getter. They are unpredictible and will get you into serious trouble on icy roads. Some people swear by them, and they do work as advertised, but they aren't very civil.

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by DmaxMaverick:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> The 03 is the 11.5 in and yours is the 10.5 in. Wrong one. I second a locker and would go with the detroit. Very easy to install and will always work.
If the unit is from a 2003 GM pickup then I doubt it will work. The new style trucks have either a 14 bolt SF (9.5") ring gear (light duty 2500's) or the new 11.5" 14 bolt. HUH???

Any new(er) (1999+ Sierra/Silverado) 2500/2500HD/3500 (and I think the 1500HD) with the 6.0L gasser engine will have a 14 bolt full floater rear end, the same one used in previous years in the 2500HD/3500 C/K. I don't know if they are identical and a direct replacement, but the spec's are the same.

The lighter 9.5" semi-floater r/e was used in the 2500LD and some 6.5L 1500 C/K's.

The rear end carrier you found should work fine, but a set-up would be required. Many shops will do it for less than $100 if you bring it in assembled.

The Detroit locker is a good solution, if you don't mind its characteristics. Eaton also has a drop-in E-Locker which will install similar to a Detroit. The advantage with the E-Locker is it's electrically controlled by a switch. No hammering on corners, unless you want it that way.

Detroits are fine for off roaders, but NOT a solution for a daily driver/grocery getter. They are unpredictible and will get you into serious trouble on icy roads. Some people swear by them, and they do work as advertised, but they aren't very civil. </font>[/QUOTE]DmaxMaverick,

I know the +99 2500 new body style but not HD used the 9.5" 14 bolt, and I know the 1500HD 1/2 crew cab's used the 9.5". All the HD's used the 11.5".

Carey

[DmaxMaverick]

All the HD's used the 11.5 Not so. The ONLY application of the 11.5"er is ONLY if the vehicle is equipped with either the Allison or ZF 6 speed, which at present time, only includes the 8.1L gasser, or Duramax. The 6.0L is equipped with either the 5 speed manual, or 4L80E auto. There is only one powertrain (with the exception of tranny choice-4L80E or 5 speed manual), which includes the 10.5" full floater rear end, single or dual rear wheels, 2500, 2500HD, or 3500, for the 6.0L. The 1500HD is a 2500 crew cab that has a different badge, and was rated at 8600 GVW. GM got called on that, and that is the reason it is no longer available as it was. The 2500 Crew Cab replaced it. There is no 2500LD, now or then. The C/K 2500 replaced what was previously badged as a "heavy half". There is the 2500 (8600 GVW), and the 2500HD (9200 GVW) now. The "old" 2500 was rated at 7200 GVW, and the 2500HD was rated at 8600 GVW. If a 7200 GVW 2500 is still available, GM is not advertising it, and no one is buying them, that I've heard.

My wife's uncle bought a new 2003 1500HD. It came with the only powertrain that was available for it. 6.0L, 4L80E, 10.5" full floater. The rear end is exactly the same as my '95 2500HD, 10.5" full floater with Eaton Gov-Loc, but with disc brakes. Come to think of it, the disc brakes may be an option for those with earlier trucks wanting to make a switch. HMMM

[More Power]

I agree with DmaxMaverick on the axle useage. The 10-1/2" 14-bolt rear is what's available behind the 6.0L in a 2001+ 2500HD (good to know the 1500HD's get it also).

I would imagine the brake flanges on the axle tubes are different between the disc and drum setups. A complete rear axle from a new truck would make the swap easy to get discs, but based on experience, I'd expect to pay $1200-1500 for a complete 2001+ 10-1/2" axle assy.

MP

[Keith Richards]

I've never seen a 1500 hd with a 14 bolt 10.5 inch axle.From what I've seen they are a 14 bolt 9.5 semi-floating axle.The original axle in question was off a 2003 3500,which only came with the newer American Axle Mfg. 14 bolt 11.5 ring gear,regardless of engine size,all the 3500 get this axle,unless 3500 HD,which is a Dana 80.confusing huh? Yes the 2500 HD's get the different axles depending on engine size,but the locker youre looking at will not fit your truck.

[JohnC]

10.5 inch locking carriers are fairly common on e-bay, if this one doesn't fit the bill. Changing the carrier is within the capabilities of the average shade tree mechanic. Since you're reusing the ring and pinion, and not touching the pinion, setup is limited to setting the backlash. The 10.5 does this without the use of shims, so it's cake. There is an article in the reprints from 2002 that covers it. The only change I'd suggest is to go for the same backlash as before the swap, which you can measure prior to dissassembly, rather than setting it to spec. That way the gears mesh the same way as before. Also, note: ring gear bolts are left hand thread!

[cruzer]

Chris, The locker I mention is a Detroit Locker and swaps in w/the removal of the spiders, if you have a 10.5" 14bolt ff. It is a positive locking differential. Engaged all the time and it breaks loose 1 tire when going around a turn. It does change the driving characteristics, if you are aware that it's there you'll be fine. As for banging and clunking that comes w/the eaton gov-loc when over 25mph. A properly set up detroit is realitively quiet. Nascar runs them at 200mph.

As for the E-loc, they just flat out suck. A friend has 1 in a dana 44. It takes about a 1/2 of revolution of the tire to engage fully and when changing direction it will unlock then reloc each time. Go w/an ARB instead, it locks intantly.
These types lockers will not allow 1 tire to break loose going around turns. They are like a spool when engaged.

[Diesel Dan]

Originally posted by cruzer:
As for banging and clunking that comes w/the eaton gov-loc when over 25mph. A properly set up detroit is realitively quiet.
That is where I disagree. Having owned several trucks with detroits and several with the gov-loc, had subs, crewcabs and blazers with detroits and subs, crews and blazers with factory G80. For a road truck/cruiser I'd recommend the factory unit, if properly set up and non-synthetic fluid. The detroits were most noticeable on the shorter wheelbase trucks. It was even noticeable, due to the amount of backlash in the unit, in the crewcab.

I did have to drain the synthetic out of my '00 to get ride of the clutch chatter in corners. My brother in-law was a heavy mech at a GM dealer until recently and he had several trucks with the G80 that he installed regular fluid to get ride of clutch chatter. He tried running the clutch packs tight to loose without much luck.

I'll have to poke around some used car lots and see if a 6.0L 3500DRW came with a 10.5" :confused: .

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by DmaxMaverick:
[QUOTE] If a 7200 GVW 2500 is still available, GM is not advertising it, and no one is buying them, that I've heard.
DmaxMaverick,

While out today I saw a 2003 or 2004 Chevy 2500 it had the 9.5" SF 14 bolt rear end.

I poked my head under it and it has rear disk brakes too.

The current plain 2500's (not the Siverado HD) are rated at 8600lbs they aren't 7200lbs like the old 88- 98's were.

Carey

[cruzer]

Diesel Dan I agree w/you. For a cruzer/highway machine a Gov-loc is excellent. It's considered a highwAy locker. The locking device in a govloc disengages at speeds over 25mph. At start up the unit is open until 1 tire spins then the unit starts locking. Once locked it will start disengaging somewhere over 25mph. That's why they work so well in this application. At speeds over 25mph they are trying to engage but can't, if there is 1 tire slipping. This is when it is trying to implode and make alot of noise. A detriot is locked all the time and then releases around corners and such.

You need to be aware of the differences in the driving characteristics between both lockers and open rearends.

[G. Gearloose]

I don't think the so-called gov-lock g80 is all that great. It needs 100 rpm difference before it engages, by then the driveline has so much momentum it rips the ustuck tire beyond traction and sinks it too.

The more your 'stuck', its apparent its a street and gravel differential; like cruzer saz..

[Turbine Doc]

Matter of need for the style locker IMO, Detroit, Lock RITE, Power TRAX et als of that style easy to install give positve lock when needed offroad, no wait for engage, not as road friendly or quiet as G-80, anbody borrowing your truck will swear you have something going on in your diff if locker equipped.

4 Wheelin couple of years back had a great article on different style lockers and ramifications of each style I'll try to dig it up and post info from it.

Manuvering in parking lots is a new skill to be learned with a locker, I had a Lock Rite for years, was great once I learned how to drive it, fixin to install a Power Trax (GMCTD one of our projects when I come over next week)supposed to be smoother than the Lock Rite will let you know how that project turns out.

I once got a free diff oil change from dealer who swore I such problems in my locker equipped needed opeing rite away, did not get my approval 1st, also failed to read sticker on rear window saying Lock-Rite equipped thanks GM.

[cruzer]

The Lock-rite style lockers are noisy and will feed back thru the driveline. I've used them for years in my mod'd FJ40. I would never put 1 in a truck that is intended for towing or blacktop.
Lockrite style lockers are cheap and work great until larger tires installed. 36"plus

I installed a Detroit a number of years ago in the FJ40 after several lockrights failed. The Detroit is by far more superior. IMO best & strongest locker made. It operates better and is quieter. Really it's non-existent in comparison to lockrites styles. They cost more for a reason.

The gov-loc works well for a tow vehicle cause at highway sppeds it acts like an open diff which will give a little better mpg. As for offroad use they suck.

[Turbine Doc]

No Lock rite for the newer GMs according to mfr, found broke tooth on the one in my 90 gasser ran it for 7 years, took some getting used to. Was going to sell the 90 at one point knew I could not sell it with locker installed so converted back to open carrier, nobody would believe it was supposed to do that/sound like that.

tried to get replacement side gear to sell with the gasser no longer available, as concession sold me a power trax at cost for the Diesel, been sitting on the shelf for 3 years, decided to install it with my new PML diff cover install. According to mfr trax is improved version over lock-rite. Couldn't pass on the deal, or I would have probaly gone with Ox Locker will post how it works, easy enough to remove.

[JeepSJ]

Originally posted by cruzer:
The easiest thing to do is buy a detroit locker.
There about $330-350 and you do not have to worry about setting up the gears. Remove spiders and replace w/the locker. You still have to set up the R&P with a Detroit, same a with any other carrier. Spiders are irrelavant.

[cruzer]

The no slip locker and lock-rite are both made by powertrax. The no slip locker eliminated the ratching effect and was designed more for street use. Blacktop friendly. It is my understanding the lockrite is slightly stronger. Powertrax replaced a couple of my lockrites for about $100 or $150 less than retail. My 1st one was the best, it lasted over 10yrs. It was their 1st design, all the others were a different design w/windows for the springs and easier to install. The newer one lasted only a couple of years. I think it didn't like the larger tires.

JeepSJ, The detroit locker for a FF14bolt goes in the existing carrier similar to a lockrite. Remove spiders and install. That's why it so cheap. No gear setup.

[Turbine Doc]

More street friendly with no slip is good news, wife hated the gasser with the lock rite, according to Power Trax folks the gasser with a 5 speed and lock rite required more finesse applying power, it did; I got to point you almost didn't know it was there. Another story however for guest drivers.

Gasser is 2wd as long as I had weight in the bed and front end wasn't in a hole it never left me stranded, still needed mud tire to be effective on MS/AL red gumbo mud unimproved road, AT M+S tires could not hack it 2x2 locked

Auto trans is supposed to tame either lock rite or no slip according to PT. PT says with 4x4 no need to lock front & rear unless rock crawling or mud bogging, occasional off road 4x4 for extra grab in moderate mud or unimproved road, single locker should be plenty.

Found the article from Aug 01 4 wheeler mag will post under separate post in general members info as not 6.5 only info applies to any Vee-hickle