General towing information?

[Rockin]

Does anyone know a good general towing information source? I'm looking for something that gets into details like using and setting up brake controllers, trailer driving courtesy, etc. On another thread I saw mention of hitting the emergency button on the controller if the trailer starts to oscelate; this made me think there are a bunch of things I am not familiar with and would like to be before I am on the road with 10K behind me.

I am currently shopping for a gooseneck living quarters horse trailer that will be used for a fair amount of long distance travel and want to be safe and happy on the road.

[HowieE]

There is a site that is not interactive but has a lot of information on it
www.geocites.com/blueskywhiteclouds/ (http://www.geocites.com/blueskywhiteclouds/)
This site is more like a book online.

Keep one thing in mind there are several other RV type forums online but often blatent missinformation is disiminated,like you should not travel with your propane turned on. This makes it hard to keep the ice cream hard.
I am not saying those of us that post here are "know it alls" but you can rest assured that we all suffer from "terminal tinkeritus" and most likely have done it enough times to have finaly gotten it right.

As a general rule follow the curtisies offered by company truckers as opposed to those of New York taxi drivers

[sonofagun]

Rockin,

If you haven't read Trailer Life magazine you should do so. They have a good on line site too http://www.trailerlife.com/

They publish a book called 10 minute tech which is full of neat ideas on trailering.

You'll also find links on their site that will take you to other interesting information.

Good luck,
Bob

[a5150nut]

Rockin,

Take a stroll to RV.net and look in "Forums". And Yes, take everything with a grain of salt....

[Trip]

Son of a Gun, thanks for the link.

[rjschoolcraft]

Trailer Life publishes an RV Handbook that has lots of good information. Like HowieE said, though, pay no attention to the "don't travel with your propane tanks turned on" advice. RV refrigerators don't cool down very quickly and don't hold their cold long when shut down. I have travelled thousands of miles with my refrigerator happily running on propane the whole time. ;) Trailer towing is a lot about common sense and not overstepping your experiences too quickly.

[DonG]

Hello HowieE & ronniejoe,

You obviously have had many many miles towing and are doing very well, so I have no reason to suggest a change in your technique.

But I do have a question:
When you pull into a fueling station with those gasoline and diesel vapors around, and your refrigerator happily burning its propane;
do you notify the other people in the service station so they can make their own decision on whether to stay near you, or to leave?

Don

[rjschoolcraft]

Don G:

Have you ever fueled next to a semi-truck with a refer trailer? Just wondering, because most of those burn propane to keep the contents of the trailer cold.

With a 32' trailer, the sources of ignition are so far from the fuel vapors when fueling that there is no way they will ignite anything.

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

DonG: Good point, with one caveat: When was the last time you heard of a camper blowing up a gas station? Please - no emotional responses, let's stick with facts. smile.gif I'm not saying it hasn't happened. This may in fact be a problem that I've just never heard of.

It seems like, even though the point is excellent, if it simply never happens, maybe it's not worth worrying about.

Blessings!

Brian Johnson, #5044

[DBlake]

If I might chime in here. Gasoline vapors are only explosive from about 5% to 15% concentration. You would have to be pretty near the pour point before that would happen. Now if there were a spill that is a different story. Diesel is very hard to ignite unless it is spilled, even then it does not have the explosive ignition like Gasoline does. This is one of the reasons I like Diesels. Having said that, one of the reasons to turn off the propane is in the event of an accident. A pressurized propane system would provide a great deal of continous fuel for a fire. I am willing to risk it as after 10 years and about 100k miles of RVing I have yet to have an accident. But I limit other risks when towing the 5th wheel. I stop when the weather gets too bad, allow lots of room in front of me, and never press the speed limit. But, having the propane system on does present a serious hazard in an accident situation. Just my $.02.

[a5150nut]

Iv'e got a 95 Automate 5er and it has a 3 way fridge. Runs on 12v when connected to the tow vehicle. Don't need no stinky propane!!

[Colorado Kid]

Originally posted by a5150nut:
Iv'e got a 95 Automate 5er and it has a 3 way fridge. Runs on 12v when connected to the tow vehicle. Don't need no stinky propane!! That's a pretty good solution, but most 5th wheels only have 2 way fridges (LP and 120V), and if you forget to switch it over it'll knock the stuffing out of the tow rigs batteries in no time . . .I had a slide in with a 3-way and it KO'd the trucks batteries a couple times before I got "Switch the fridge to gas or land line" tattooed on the inside of my eyelids. :rolleyes:

[DonG]

I am glad I got lots of people talking about the question. That goes a long way toward getting everyone to understand the risks, and the lack of risks.

I know diesel is far less flamable than gasoline, but I also know that lots of diesel pumps are right next to gasoline pumps. (I agree that truckers are by themselves).

I have seen many people overflow their cars with gasoline and the vapors are suddenly everywhere.

I may be a little paranoid, but after 30 years of working in a refinery, I have seen a few disasters with fuel vapors.
I think discussing the potential is far better than:
[pay no attention to the "don't travel with your propane tanks turned on" advice.]

Don

[dickheller]

A little fact re. Propaine is heavier than air so the fumes will go down to the ground. That is one reason they have opening in the compartment where you store the propaine bottles. If I remember correctly for every gallon of propaine you will have 270 gallons of vapor that can cause a big bang. Just a little info re propaine. :eek:

[rjschoolcraft]

Every day is full of risks that most of us don't even know are there. If I sat around worrying about every minute risk that I knew existed, I would never do anything and would be full of ulcers. The fact is, most of those warnings are the result of the hyper litigious society that we live in. I would ask you, have you ever left your vehicle run while fueling? Hmmmm.

If you want to turn your propane off while travelling, go ahead. Your ice cream will likely melt and your milk will spoil. For me, I like to get a cold pop out now and then at a fuel stop.

I consider the fact that the concentration of any fuel vapors (as mentioned by someone else earlier) is too small to actually cause a problem. Statistically, there's about as much chance of that happening as there is for the theory of organic evolution to be true. I think I'm safe.

As for having a wreck while travelling with the propane on... What if the valve was knocked off of that turned off cylinder of propane?

[CareyWeber]

All,

I have a three way fridge (LP/110V/12V) in my Lance camper.

When I try to run the fridge on 12V it just kills my camper battery (Yes I checked and it is being charged by my truck).

My dealer said most truck alternators can't keep up with the fridge running on 12V.

Since that issue I have run mine on propane while driving, but if I could get it to work on 12V I would.

I'm thinking that I might try a larger gauge wire to the camper for charging the battery. Do you think this will help?

[Rockin]

Originally posted by ronniejoe:
Every day is full of risks that most of us don't even know are there. If I sat around worrying about every minute risk that I knew existed, I would never do anything and would be full of ulcers. The fact is, most of those warnings are the result of the hyper litigious society that we live in. I would ask you, have you ever left your vehicle run while fueling? Hmmmm.
Back to the origional question, yes, every day is full of risks. There are certain things you can do to either prevent the bigger risks or know what to do when they do happen. What I am looking for is guidelines to avoid common risks.

Yes, I have left vehicles on while fueling. In the Army, we would leave our tanks running while pumping in 300 gal of JP8 with the hose running inches above the 1800 degree exhaust output.

After you fuel your vehicle, you create plenty of sparks that could ignite vapors. Think of all the relays for head lights, starters, selenoids etc.

[rjschoolcraft]

Rockin,

In my original post (the one that got all the controversy started), I pointed you toward the Trailer Life RV Handbook. It is a worthwhile read for the kind of information that you seek.

[MikeC]

OK all, let's see if I can shed some light ;)

1. Vapors from propane, diesel and gasoline are all heavier than air and will hug the ground. In a calm air situation they will run, like water does, to a low point and lay there to dissipate slowly. The height of most pilot lights on RV's puts the pilot out of reach of the vapors unless your fill neck is above the pilot. What this means to me is, we should worry about the customer who throws their lit gigarette down to step on it just as they exit their car, more than our pilot lights.

2. The valves on propane tanks are designed to "shut off" if flow is too high. What this means is that if a line ruptures, or is torn loose in an auto accident, the tank should shut off unless there is a failure internally in the valve.

All that said, when towing we should be more concerned with turns, stopping distance, road speed, etc.

Soap box is going away now :D

Mike

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

It's quite impressive that, by & large, this topic has stayed with facts, & away from emotion. If you've read my posts over time, you know I suffer from occasional bursts of (to be polite) non-fact input. Thanks to all. I was on a biodiesel forum for awhile, & it was 2% biodiesel, 98% flaming each other. What a waste of time that was! I finally had to leave that forum.

Blessings& Merry Christmas!

Brian Johnson, #5044

[Chad S]

Just a comment about fueling next to a semi truck with the refer running. Most truck refrigeration units out there are diesel or diesel/electric not propane.
FWIW,
Chad

[House Builder]

Sorry to get into this conversation so late, but I haven't been to the formum for about three weeks.
I have towed a 26 foot travel trailer about 75,000 miles in the last 17 years. I have always towed with the refrigerator on (propane). If you look at the constrtuction of the flame unit area, at least on mine, there is quite a bit of shielding with the flames somewhat protected.
Also the air intake is about 3 1/2 feet above the ground.
What about the pilot light in the water heator? That is a lot more open to external fumes. What about the pilot light in the stove and oven? They would also be ingnition sources. At least on older rigs that don't have electric ignition.
At least this discussion has suddenly made me very much more aware of the dangers of explosion from external vapors at fueling locations and elsewhere with all of the pilot lights and flame sources of my rig.
I have been required to have my propane tanks off AND the lines disconnected with the valves capped when I boarded ferries in Canada.