Turbo-Master Boost

[StephenA]

After contacting ATS about their exhaust system (pre-installed on my truck when I bought it), they told me it involved a waste gate actuator bracket, down pipe, exhaust pipes, muffler but used the stock crossover. The turbo is a GM1 with a vacuum line at the top, between the two fans. I don't know how, but ATS says their bracket increases performance. Anyone familiar with this upgrade? Will I get better performance with a Turbo-Master? I haven't installed a boost gauge yet, but plan to soon... Truck runs well; I just like upgrading it. What turbos are available for this engine?

[Jeffrey12]

I put a turboMaster on my 93 last year and I am glad that I did. It will make a world of difference but before I did I made sure that I had my guages installed. Boost & Pyro, that need to be on before any other mods. Most folks will probably echo that thought.

[StephenA]

Makes sense. What brand gauges do you recommend & where to get?

[Kollin Syverson]

I put in the Isspro gauges from Diesel Injection Services. Extremely nice gauges and very prompt delivery.

[patrick m.]

You can do a few things to boost the performance of your turbo, but, it wont be long and you will get to the max your turbo can do.

save yourself the time and get a different turbo. there are upgrades available as a "direct" replacement, but i have found that there are many that will fit with a small amount of work, and do a very nice job :D

check "auto meter" website, they have many good looking guages and are available from "Jegs" and "Summit" and many other places. Also check the advertisers on TDP, many will have a kit with everything you need.

[StephenA]

Thanks guys! Ok, here's the $64,000 question...
What is the absolute :D best turbo for the 6.5? :confused:

[patrick m.]

you will probably get several different answers for that question.
an intercooler is a must for any turbo that will deliver boost of 10psi and up.
JK and Peninsular sell a non-wastegated turbo upgrade that i believe is capable of over 20 psi on a 6.5l
A few guys are using the MHI TE06H wastegated turbo with very good results.
I have a Garrett TO4B and can tell you it produces more power than my stock GM4, even though it produces less boost at a given throttle possition. The GM4 would not produce more than 13psi, even with the wastegate held shut. The TO4B will produce 16psi (so far :D ), if you really push it.
for the money, ease of installation, and resulting power, the best bet may be JK or Peninsular.
JK is the source for the intercooler.

[StephenA]

Thanks Patrick, - Whose intercooler are you using?

[patrick m.]

I got mine from Kennedy. I also have a guage to monitor intake air temp and the intercooler does o good job of keeping charge air temp in check, and really helps with power at full boost :D

[Kollin Syverson]

[The GM4 would not produce more than 13psi, even with the wastegate held shut.]

Is there something wrong with my GM-4? When I first put on my Turbo-Master, I set it according to instructions. When I first tried it out, I pegged my boost gauge at 15 psi. Even after adjusting it down, I have to be very careful, as on a hard pull or heavy acceleration, I can peg my boost gauge and keep it there.

[whatnot]

Originally posted by Kollin Syverson:
[The GM4 would not produce more than 13psi, even with the wastegate held shut.]

Is there something wrong with my GM-4? When I first put on my Turbo-Master, I set it according to instructions. When I first tried it out, I pegged my boost gauge at 15 psi. Even after adjusting it down, I have to be very careful, as on a hard pull or heavy acceleration, I can peg my boost gauge and keep it there. My boost gauge also only goes to 15 and my turbo will easily peg the gauge if I make if.
I found that wiring the wastegate shut doesen't work. The back pressure is enough to make it push open enough to loose some boost. If you want to test what the turbo can do, you can just swap the two lines at the wastegate solenoid. (94 and up)
I did it by mistake and it would peg the gauge with 1/8 throttle.

[patrick m.]

Maybe there was something wrong with my GM4,
either way, the turbine housing on the GM4 is still too small, which leads to it becomeing very restrictive if you are trying to make power.

i could easily get 13psi with very little throttle pressure from the GM4. I quickly discovered that 10psi made as much power as 13psi.
What does this mean? Answer: Even if the GM4 could produce 30psi of boost, that does not mean you will get better performance. Keep in mind what ever goes in to the engine, has to come out.

A turbo that will develope power will take some effort to "spool" it up. Which for me works out very well. Even when im pulling a load, i dont need 10psi of boost at 1200rpm, im not trying to smoke the tires with a trailer on my bumper. I need real power in the rpm range that i use, 1800-to the shift point
:D :D :D

[ 10-05-2003, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Patrick m. ]

[BuffaloGuy]

Interesting post guys. Hey PatrickM what type of gauge do you use for the intake air temp? Did you have the gauge installed before the IC was installed? If so what difference did you notice?

On another note, I've got a turbo master on my '93 and I can honestly say it was the best $60 upgrade I did. Bang for the buck it was the best. I installed the gauge before the turbo master so I could compare and the readings and seat of the pants difference are very noticable.

[cruzer]

StephenA, I agree w/Buffalo guy. Turbo master is great. I have a GM1 turbo also, I'm getting 13-14psi under load. I don't think you want that kind of boost w/o an intercooler.

Patrick M, At 1 point I had it set around 11-12 psi and I would see some fluctuation (loss)in speed when pulling a hill w/my load. I bumped up boost to 13-14 and could see and feel improved power. I have never tried any more boost that.

Stephen A, the "vacum line" you see between the "fans" should be metal braided and is actually
a oil line to lube turbo. Your turbo has a mechanical wastgate and thats' what the turbo-master was originally made for. You do need gauges b4 you do turbo master or do both at the same time. Gauges are required to dial the
T-M in. It will flatten the hills somewhat.

[GMCfourX4]

Kollin;
One thing you might want to check is with the spring pressure backed off on the Turbo-Master, you should be able to move the wastegate lever by hand, with no binding. I just installed mine over the weekend, and found that I had to make a very slight "tweak" to the wastegate lever to get the rod to slide smoothly. I used a screwdriver to VERY slightly bend the wastegate lever in order to get it to slide smoothly. Before I did this, it wasn't quite lined up right, and it was binding, and not allowing the wastegate to open much/at all.

-Chris

[GARY PAGE]

Mine surges to 16 and then goes down to around 14 on a heavy pull at 2400 RPM. I don't have a IC, recall the IC doesn't make power, it just sustains it when inlet temps get to high. I think as long as you are not on the hard pull a long time and settle down to 9 PSI or so you are OK. I pull a 8500 LB 5th wheel with another 750 pounds of cargo and passangers into the smokies without any trouble. Planning your trip helps as well!

[StephenA]

cruzer- yep, that's oil all right - I found out the vacuum actuation wasn't added till later... Gotta love this 92, it just gets simpler & simpler. I don't think it even has a vacuum pump. Bill Heath has a 3 place pillar gauge holder for my 92- first I've found for that year. He also says the GM1 turbo on this truck will deliver 14psi. Gonna do the guages & the Turbo-Master.

[BuffaloGuy]

An interesting note. Before I installed my 3.5" exhaust my turbo master was set to deliver 14lbs. under load at 2500rpm at full throttle.

Then I installed the 3.5" exhaust and it would peg the gauge. So I turned it down a couple of turns. Still pegged it. Turned it down a couple of more turns and it still peggs it but not as easily. One heck of a difference with the big exhaust. I am impressed.

I still need to get it turned down though. It semms that if I am pulling hard at 14 psi for a sustain period the motor will get hot pretty fast (coolant not EGT). Just my gut feeling is that 12 psi is about the right balance of boost vs. backpressure (and heat build-up). Interesting, since this is what most of the old hands have been saying all along. I'd say they are right!

[StephenA]

Do all you folks with Turbo-Masters also have intercoolers? What is the differnce between the T-M & John Kennedy's boost controller? Recommendations?

[ 10-08-2003, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: StephenA ]

[patrick m.]

Kennedy's boost controller is an electronic device used to increase boost levels on electronically injected 6.5s
which means 94-up.
94 and up use vac to control the wastegate, when the computer wants to reduce boost pressure, it relieves the vac to the wastegate actuator by way of the solenoid, vac is released, and the wastegate opens.
the "turbo master" will work on either engine, however, the 94 and up will most likely see a code set for wastegate solenoid failure.
eventhough i no longer have a wastegate, i still use Kennedy's "boost controler" to help "hide" the extra boost from the computer.

[GARY PAGE]

My question is why doesn't the Kendey chip take the boost signal as it is without setting a code, the Bill Heath does. If kennedy doesn't thats that's not right, it bet it does.

[Bobbie Martin]

My question is why doesn't the Kendey chip take the boost signal as it is without setting a code, the Bill Heath does. If kennedy doesn't thats that's not right, it bet it does.
The chips can be programmed to set a code or not for various components. My guess - and that is all this is- Heath has the wastegate code turned off in his chips because he sells the Turbo Master. Kennedy sells a computer controlled wastegate so he has the code left on. Its just a matter of tailoring the chips to their other products.

[StephenA]

PatrickM- thanks for the explanation on the T-M & Boost controller. I get it now. That's why I couldn't find vacuum on my turbo. I don't even think my 92 has a pump. One less thing to replace.