Lemon Law or not?

[tim975]

Hello everyone, my name is Tim and I don't really speak too much here on The Diesel Page, more of a "sit back and watch" kind of member. I love the wealth of information you all have to say, and it's been a great help, I've learned a lot from you. Right now I'm in serious need your help, all of you. I'm still the owner of an early 2001 2500HD, Dmax/Allison regular cab, all stock. I bought it brand new May 2002 with 25 miles. I'm currently at 23,402. Throughout these miles I've had problems with steering rattle (been in the stealership several times complaining about that, been repacked per bulletin), now the rattle is just as bad as before. Oil consumption (burned 8 quarts of oil in 4700 miles, I check the dipstick 2-3 times a week, and no it's not leaking anywhere)I do my own oil changes, using Mobil 1 Delvac 1300, every 5000 miles. Center console locking up, can't get it open. The biggest and most noticeable problem, Transmission surging and slipping (I'm blaming the torque converter, similar to what dcpdave was talking about updated valve springs in the TC, but it does this all the time I'm driving), and I've had it in several times for that, all they do is reprogram the shift busyness, hasn't helped it. Engine Idler pulley rattling (been replaced 3 times), especially when the compressor kicked on. Now, the sad part is, I've started the Lemon Law process, because of the problems I'm having with my truck. I just drive back and forth to work 60 miles round trip everyday, I don't really haul anything with it, I plow snow (only one season), and have hauled a car trailer twice. I still really haven't seen the full potential of this truck. I love this truck, and don't want to do this. I took it hard when I traded my '97 GMC in for this truck, that was my baby, now I'm regretting trading it in, never had a problem in the 114,000 miles I put on it. Everytime I anticipate 2-3 hours of sitting in the waiting room, and 20 minutes later the service writer tells me the truck is ready, that tells me they don't want to do anything with it. I've had the truck to 3 dealerships, 9 times in all, and still nothing has been taken care of. The last service manager put his arm around me and told me to enjoy the truck and drive it. I told him to F*** off and give me my keys, and that I will never send any business his way. This whole ordeal has me so friggin P.O'ed, I almost want to get rid of the truck, but yet I like the looks of this truck the best, it has all the things I want in a truck, and it was very hard to find a truck like this with the options that are in it. What I need from all of you is, your opinions on this subject, whether good or bad. If you were in this situation, would you go thru the Lemon Law, or stick it out and wait for GM to try to fix it? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Tim Hager
Chesterton, IN

[dmaxalliTech]

Tim, how far south of Michigan/Indiana border are you?

[Buckman]

It's a shame that the dealers haven't been successful in addressing the problems you've encountered with your truck. You mentioned that the dealer has repeatedly re-programmed the transmission to take care of the shift business, but didn't say whether or not they also updated the calibration for the PCM (Powertrain Control Module). There is a significant interaction between the TCM and PCM and neglecting to update both could cause you to not get the full benefit of the transmission calibration updates. By the way, the dealer can only update the TCM and/or PCM once with the most recent calibrations. Once they're loaded in the respective module, they cannot be updated again unless there is a newer calibration available. The vehicle must be driven to adapt the shifts after being recalibrated.
I would suggest that you look in your owners manual and contact someone at GM to try to elevate the issue of your vehicle problems. As has been mentioned many times before on this forum, be cordial and calmly state your case along with any and all information you might have such as repair orders, etc.
If you could post the last eight digits of your VIN, I might be able to talk to my dealer friend and find out what has really be done (He's really good on the D/A. Best of luck and let us know how it goes. ;)

[pontiac_m18]

TIM 975, I have the # of the people to contact at the plant to work with you if you choose the "LEMON LAW" choice. They will also talk to you if you want options of what to do??!! Contact me at = howard_m18@yahoo.com :D :D :D

[GMCTRUCK]

I would ask what the history of the truck was before you bought it new with 25 miles on it. Seems strange that an "early 2001" truck was still on the lot in May of 2002 when 2003s were being ordered.

[ 04-16-2003: Message edited by: GMCTRUCK ]</p>

[dave p]

its really to bad gm canot make the 2001 as good as the 97. thats why we will not buy another gm truck. i had a 98 2500 with 454 and wish i had kept it. i now have a 2001 gas and have had lots of trouble. have been shafted by the big 3 for the last time and will buy *** nex time. dave p :cool:

[tim975]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies so far. dmaxalliTech, I'm right on the southern tip of Lake Michigan, right down I-94, about 2 hours from Grand Rapids. Buckman, I can't honestly say whether or not they also did the PCM. I have contacted GM's customer service, did some ranting and raving about my problems; all they did was give me 5 yr/60k mile warranty on the transmission only. What good is that when the rest of the drivetrain is taking a beating from the surging/slipping/"neutral drop"? That won't fix anything. The TC acts like it drains out when I'm sitting at a dead stop, when I step on the gas pedal, the engine winds up to about 1000-1500 RPM, and then it slams into gear. You asked about the VIN number, 1GCHK241X1305893, I also got the serial number off the trans, 6310108188. I hope this helps. pontiac_m18, I have already started the Lemon Law process, but I'm sure I can still back out of it. GMCTRUCK, it does sound kinda strange why a 2001 would still be on the lot it 2002. Me and an old friend had seen this same truck a year earlier at the same dealership (at least I thought it was the same), and to see it there a year later, and wonder why no one ever bought it, especially when they're in such high demand. Do you think they would honestly tell me why no one bought it, or why it sat there for so long? I honestly don't know if they would. I mean, I crawled under the truck after I took it for a test drive, and noticed the driveshaft was full of surface rust from sitting so long. Dave p, I can't tell you how much I regret getting rid of my 97, it was like going to my best friend's funeral. If I had the opportunity, I'd buy it back in a heartbeat. Ironically, a guy where I work at bought the truck, so I still see it once in a blue moon. Still looks as good as the day I said goodbye to it. As far as the '01, I got a hell of a deal on the truck when I bought it, sticker price was $36,522, I paid $30,254. They went so low just to get rid of it. That was another reason why I bought it. One other thing, for those of you who own 2003's, say if this Lemon Law goes thru, is it worth getting a 2003? Do you have the same problems as the '01-02's have? Should I buy another GM truck? I've been a loyal GM owner, even my mom's side of the family works for GM in Saginaw, MI. I don't think they can do anything for me neither. When I started this Lemon Law process, GM offered me $2300 to "shut me up", I told them to forget it, that I was gonna go thru the whole ordeal. Now I'm looking at possibly a court date, when I don't know. I guess I just have to "hurry up and wait".

[tim975]

Buckman, sorry about the VIN number, forgot the "E".

1GCHK241X1E305893

[dmaxalliTech]

TIM, if your still interesteed in getting your truck fixed right once and for all and not 100% convinced on getting rid of it, let me know, We can arrange to have it serviced at my dealer, your tranny is junk and you need a new one, Youre gettin one. If I cant fix your truck, you can go buyback, but I would appreciate your business. How many miles on your truck?

[Buckman]

Tim,

Does your transmission seem to have the neutral at stop problem when first started and still not up to full operating temperature and does the problem seem to go away as the transmission warms up? If so, there is a possibility that there is a problem with a clutch piston seal.

It appears that your truck supposedly had both the TCM and PCM reprogrammed in October. Did the surging problem get resolved? Under what circumstances do you have the surging problem? Is it present with or without the cruise control on or during towing?

Keep us posted on how this situation goes. BOL :confused:

[tim975]

Hello everyone. DmaxalliTech, I'd be interested in getting it fixed. I wish I never had to go thru this B.S. in the first place. But I'll have to talk to my lawyer first to make sure if a new trans doesn't work out, that I can still go thru the Lemon Law. You can reach me thru email at timh975@attbi.com. Buckman, as of right now, There's 23,219 miles on the odo, and 882.4 on the hourmeter. The trans does the slipping/surging/neutral drop at all operating temps. The only time it never did it was when I pulled the car trailers the two times I did, but I ran in Tow/haul mode then. It got really annoying while plowing snow this season. The neutral drop feeling happens once in a great while, but the slipping/surging happens pretty frequently. One other thing that I forgot to mention, with my truck, if the wheels are pointed straight, and if you turn the steering wheel and feel for play, it feels tight, but if the wheels are cranked fully in either direction, there's about 3 inches of travel in the steering wheel before it'll turn the wheels. The dealership said this was normal, I think he's full if it. Especially since it never happened on my 97, I'm sure it's all the same steering setup, just beefed up in the 3/4 tons. What do you think? Does anyone know if GM has a cure for the steering rattle yet?

[Redhawk]

I don't know if this helps or hinders, but I had the Neutral Drop early on with my 01. After I saw the many posts on this forum, I went in for the TCM and PCM reflash. That fixed the problem. No other problem with the truck, and like your '97 I wouldn't trade it for anything now. Good luck no matter which way you go on this.

I went through a buyback in 2000 with another brand, and even though I got my money back eventually, except for wear and tear ,I'd rather not go through that horrible experience again. In my situation they also paid me for my attorny fees and a couple of motel and car rental expenses, plus for all the accessories I had put on the truck. If you go through the buyback, make them pay.

[buckw]

Tim...I feel your pain.

I to have filed the Lemon Law. I mad it all the way through arbitration and kicked GM _ss on paper work and documentation. When everythinig was said in done GM claimed foul by saying they had a conflict of interset with the abirtrator.
This is a bunch of Crap.

THe bbb and the Big three are all in it together.

What do I do...I guess go through the Damn thing agin only GM will have the script this time!

02' Duramax Quad Cab 4x4 Started problems at 3K, now have 36.5k

Appericiate any help

BuckW

[tim975]

Hello buckw, glad you understand what's going on here. I've made it to the BBB stage, they took it for a drive last week, now the lawyer's saying we have to wait and see what happens next, they may try one last repair attempt :mad: :mad: ; I thought WTF? They couldn't fix it after 9 times in the shop, what makes them think one more time's gonna do it? It's their stupidity that makes me want to buy something else (I'll get hung for saying it on this site!) :eek: I really hope I don't have to go to that extreme. It wouldn't surprise me that they are in it together neither. I mean, isn't the BBB supposed to be on our side? :confused:

[JimWilson]

You sound very unhappy, and I don't blame you. If it were me, and I had taken it as far as you have, then I'd go all the way. Show a little indecision now and you're toast.

And I wouldn't be buying GM again either. To me, I just don't understand classifying something as such a POS that you want you're money back, and then spending that same money with the people who screwed you in the first place.

[dmaxalliTech]

Oh my goodness, your not gonna buy a F&&& are ya?? :eek: :eek: :eek:

I am thinking I would be extremely PI$$ED too. Here is my thought though. It seems as if the dealer is incompatant to repair these trucks.? IIRC, you are entitled to a buyback if truck has been in to dealer for more then 30 days total for same concern. I think it would be less drastic to find another dealer for your service work then to change brands all togather, remember, your problems are at the dealer level. GM has built thousands of the D/A rigs and extreme complaints like this are rare. We (me dealer) frequently get vehicles from GM that were buy backs to correct the problems that the vehicle was bought back for. Its amazing how simple most of the repairs end up being. We figure inexpierence or inabilities to be the main source of not fixin it right the first time. I wish we were closer togather and we met up before this problem rose to this level. I would have personally made sure your truck ownership was pleasent. This extends to all DP members, If your rig aint right and your fed up with your dealer, bring it to Michigan!! I hope you get some resolve in the end to your satisfaction tongue.gif

[GMCTRUCK]

You may want to buy something else just to spite GM but trust me the grass is not greener on the other side. For the complete nightmare on the Fords just go to thedieselstop.com or flatratetech.com which is where the Ford technicians tell their pull your hair out stories about the new 6.0. Dodge is even worse. They may look nice when they're new and the Cummins is a good engine but the truck is a p.o.s. and I know this from experience. For the best idea of which is typically best built go to a body shop and ask them. They see these things inside and out. From paint and build quality to frame strength and how they hold up. Any unbiased, experience body man will tell you anything Chrysler is garbage and that the Japanese put our vehicles to shame in general.

[pontiac_m18]

HI TIM AGAIN!! I got the # & name of the person to contact in the plant! Will call on Tuesday & have them call you! Howard ;) ;) ;)

[tim975]

GMCTRUCK, I was kinda thinking about a F**d redface.gif . My buddy at work has been pushing me to test drive one. But I wouldn't even think about a D***e, it's out of the question. I was ripping a guy out at work yesterday because he traded his Tahoe in and bought a new D***e quad cab. :rolleyes: He thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, all I could do was LMFAO! :D DmaxalliTech, I will call my lawyer first thing Monday morning, and see what my options are, if you and I can work something out with this trans. I'm off Mondays and Tuesdays anyway. You can send me an email at timh975@attbi.com. I'd like to ask you a few questions. Harold, thanks again for your help, hopefully I'll be around Tuesday for that call.

[FirstDiesel]

It's funny reading the posts over at the Ford list. In between eating their own young about the problems they are having with unrepairable oil leaks and tranny issues they take time out to make statements about the DMAX that aren't true. Like the old aluminum head failure lie.

[ 04-19-2003: Message edited by: FirstDiesel ]</p>

[pontiac_m18]

HI TIM! DID you get a phone call today? I called her & gave her your info. She was going to call you? Howard :D :D :D

[FisHn2DMax]

Tim,
I know you've been through a lot with GM but
Trust me, switching to a Fo$d or D***e isn't the answer! A few months back I had a Fo$d F-350 CC "Super Duty" and it was anything but Super Duty! It only had 13000 miles on it before I decided enough was enough and got rid of it! It lived more in the Dealers shop than it did in my Garage! It had two transmission failures, ABS brake module failure, a failed front rotor (cracked), front break pads crumbled causing almost total break failure going down a steep mountain canyon, MAP sensor failure, 2nd New front pads and front rotors turned for the second time due to pulling hard to the right then the left during braking, At idle it never had much power steering, Power Window buttons would stick in the on position. Numerous rattles, Front End Alignment problems, Leaf springs replaced for sag in Left front. Front leaf spring Noise/popping (never solved), Rear Diff leak at L.R. wheel seal.
The heaviest load this truck ever pulled was 12,000 and then only a few times. The truck was totally pampered! I would have hated to see what would have happened if I really worked the truck? So far ( knock on wood) My 03 DuraMax/Ali 2500 HD has been great ( 4500 miles)!!!!

I realize that in any Truck make you can get a Lemon. After owning both, the driveability ( Braking, Comfort, Handling, Steering) of the GM HD is the main reason I prefer the GM HD trucks to any other make!

Best wishes to finding an equitable resolution. Keep the pressure on GM!

Good Luck and keep us informed...

:D

[tim975]

Harold, I received her call yesterday morning, real nice lady. She told me about the buyback, geez I wish I had known about that earlier! She said there wasn't much she could do because I was so far into the lemon law. But that's the kind of stuff they don't want you to know about I guess. She gave me her number and if I had any other problems to call her. If the lemon law doesn't go thru, I will definitely call her back. Fishn2dmax, I thought I had it bad! I'll tell you all right now, you've talked me out of buying a F**d (Thank you!!!) :D :D :D I wouldn't even think about a D***e :rolleyes: . That's a shame considering it's an American made product, I mean in my opinion Chrysler needed a 7 year/70k mile warranty just to get people to buy their stuff! Besides, I can't stand that new front end (what were they thinking?) The reason I was thinking F**d was because it had more of what I wanted in a truck (solid front axle, higher ground clearance, you can fit bigger tires on stock height, and it sits higher overall, I love sitting high, seeing over everyone). I have my own little snow plowing business, and I was hoping to upgrade to a V-plow for next year. Have you ever seen the front squat on a GM truck compared to a F**d? A lot less squat on the F**d. I know the Chevy/GMC could handle it, but I'd have to crank the T-bars a couple times, then ya gotta worry about alignment problems and so on. I will buy GM again, not sure about a brand new one, or used though. I prefer new, we'll see how things go. Talked to my lawyer yesterday, they filed a lawsuit against GM last week, but they haven't heard anything back from GM yet. I will keep you all posted on what's happening.

[Husker Fan]

Get an

[tim975]

Hello Husker Fan! I totally agree with you and Buckw. Why did the BBB have to take my truck for a test drive? Does GM think I'm the scam artist or something? GM will probably try to charge me for the 10 miles that the BBB put on my truck, at $0.36 per mile that I've put on my truck as it is :rolleyes: . It shouldn't be called the Better Business Bureau, it should be called the Big Business Bureau, because it only seems to benefit the corporate level.