View Full Version : Head Gasket or Cracked Head or ??
My truck started losing coolant and the light started coming on. Then it started running rough. Took it in and they replaced all the injectors at 60K mi. No charge to me.
Now it is still losing coolant to the point where each 2k miles I have to add.
I am guessing that I have a head gasket or head crack/warp problem. Need to take it back in I guess.
If it is one of these do you guys know if this is covered under warranty? She has just over 71K on her now.
__________________
2001 2500HD Crew SB
Edge Juice
Banks 4" Stainless Exhaust
K&N Air Filter in stock airbox
Inspector
08-02-2005, 01:40
The warrenty started with the first purchase date. If it falls within the 5 year 100 thousand mile engine warrenty you will be ok. There will be a 100 dollar deductible.
Denny
Thanks for the info. I am taking the truck in today. Will update.
Heartbeat Hauler
08-02-2005, 20:23
I believe there is another issue that may lead to coolant loss...injector cup seating. I think that's what it is reffered to. I have gotten the low coolant light twice in the last year or so and I don't have to add very much. It seems to me that a head gasket would be way more lost than what I am experiencing. I'm a little scared to take my truck in though because I have the Banks OTTO Mind plugged in and it operates my guages. It would be a hassle to remove, but I guess that's better than paying for repairs. Wonder if I should just take a chance they won't notice?
JP
I would take it out as there is little chance they wont notice. I take out my Edge before going to the dealer.
I just had my injectors replaced so I was thinking that it must be the head. I guess it could be the injectors though. I just want it fixed.
Mark Heiken
08-03-2005, 14:09
Check the water pump for seepage. Mine lost a little coolant for the first 20k miles. I finally noticed the pump seeping. Hasn't lost a drop since.
if you've recently had the injectors replaced before you noticed the coolant loss, theres a good chance the injector sleeves were disturbed and are now leaking. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. there is a bulletin on this. it's PI01249. heres part of what it has to say...
It is possible for coolant to leak past the injector sleeve into the cylinder. This can occur if there is a poor sealing surface between the cylinder head and the injector sleeve. Debris from the assembly process or pitting at the cylinder head can cause this problem. During injector replacement, the sleeve could become dislodged or removed with the injector . If the injector sleeve is not installed properly, leakage could result after injector replacement. Loctite
Actually the coolant loss was occuring before and after the injector replacement. In fact, a few thousand miles before the injectors totally went, I paid a few hundred bucks for some hose replacements because when I first reported the coolant loss, they 'found' a 'small leak'in a hose that happened to be the most labor intesive one to replace. Never solved the coolant loss so I question if there was ever a leak in the first place.
Anyway- the truck is at the dealer and I am lucky enough (not) to be driving a big ol Lincoln Town Car that was the only thing the local rent-a-car place had. I also learned that GM does not pay for rentals on the 100K drive train waranty claims. Nice
Update - The dealer kept the truck for two days and said they cannot determine where the leak is. They confirmed that the system presurizes when it should not. They said that they did a CO test and found no indication of exhause gases in the coolant. They said that they needed to leave it under pressure over the weekend. I will check in with them today but it is getting old paying 60 bucks a day for a rental while they try to figure out what is going on with my truck.
"George is getting angry"
OK - talked with the service foreman and the most knowledgable GM tech at the dealer and he claims that the Coolant loss could not be going into the crankcase because the oil level is not going up or showing more than full on the dipstick. Does this make any sense? I would think they could chemically test the oil like we did in the Army on the HMMWVs.
He also says that only trucks with aftermarket software run over 210 degrees. I am running stock software - I pulled my chip a while ago to rule it out as a source of problem.
I am no mechanic so I need some help here. I told them they could drive the truck for 60 miles or so to see if there is any coolant level drop.
Meanwhile I am not able to use my truck and am stuck driving a Lincoln Town Car of all things.
yes the oil can be tested for coolant. It would show up as high sodium levels. Also how do they claim a coolant system overpressurise w/o the introduction of combustion gases :rolleyes: ??? any hard starts or is it still running rough or smoking??
i had a cooling loss too. the dealer found a spot on the head gasket. the dealer replace the head gasket and plane down the heads while they had them off. it took them a month to this. the dealer let me used one of there rental cars at no cost, i had to put fuel in it, while the dealer had my truck. it cost me $100 and 12000 miles warrently on the engine.
It does not hard start or run rough. I don't know get the idea that the dealer is all that competent. The service rep I am dealing with is very accomodating but I am not sure about the competencey of the techs (of course I have no clue when it comes to this stuff so I am in the dark and not one to judge).
He now says that if I overfilled the coolant - it could siphon the whole coolant resevoir dry but I don't see how that could happen and don't think I overfilled it when I added the Dexcool anyway.
Just so I understand how my coolant loss (apparant coolant consumption as well as coolant burping out the overflow tube) relates to the possible problems..... So the overpressure is caused by a possible leak of exhaust into the coolant through the head if it is cracked or the head gasket if it is failing? AND - If it is overpressuring then that could cause the coolant to be burping out the overflow? AND it may be consuming coolant through leakage into the head? Do I have this all correct?
I am getting frustrated. Should I be calling GM or Chevy's district people? Is there contact info for these corporate people available on this site?
dmaxalliTech
08-08-2005, 16:07
Sounds like classic signs of head gasket failure to me. Especially the pressureizing of the coolant tank. It has been my findings that leaking cup seals do NOT pressurize the system, but allow slow dissapearing of coolant. Some of the 01's I have tore down had rusty head bolts even they were leaking so long. The gasket can be 'read' and generally its possible to see where the leak likely was.
I've heard sometime back that the torque on the heads from the factory was bumped on the 02ish MY to combat maybe a problem that was known early on.
Thanks Eric. The trouble with my situation is that the dealer is resisting my suggestions to check the head gasket for some unknown reason.
What test or inspection might I suggest they perform that will confirm or rule out the head gasket or cracked head. They told me that they did a "block test" and it showed no problems. They kept the system over the weekend completely presurized and it showed no leaks or loss of fluid. They said that the coolant would have increased the level in the engine oil but it did not show.
How close is your next nearest dealer??? Basicly, if it's pressurizing the system, the head needs to come off for inspection. It's true this is no joy to do and they may just be trying to get around doing it. I know a lot of dealers who were turning down diesel work are now getting cracked down on and maybe this is their way around it...CND....(could not duplicate). diesels are odd creatures in the way that they may not leak compression unless at a certain temp, under a specific load, and at a specfic operating speed. All these factors make for different cylinder pressures that may or may not leak at times. The pressure put on your cooling system w/ a pressure tester is not even remotely close to the same as those made during combustion.
[ 09-16-2005, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: madmatt ]
Matt, everything you say makes perfect sense. Based on everything I have read here and elsewhere, this sounds like a head or head gasket problem. I thought that GM reimburses the dealer so I am confused as to why they would be resistant. I may have to take it to another dealer, there are a bunch that are close by, this particular dealer happens to be next to where I work so I have always taken it there.
I'll give these guys another day and push them to take the head off and inspect. If they refuse I will have to call GM and/or take her to another dealer service center.
Another thing, prior to the injector problem, I did take the truck to this dealer for this same coolant loss problem and they "found" a leak in one of the hoses. Even if I accpet that there could have been a leak (although I now have my doubts) This cost me about 3 bills to get it fixed - shouldn't this have been covered by the 100k powertrain waranty?
no, hoses aren't covered.
dmaxalliTech
08-09-2005, 13:32
Here is a few shots from one I have in the shop right now.
This pic shows the block near where the head gasket was actually failed. Notice the surface of the block has some rust on it and the piston is slightly washed. You can see the head bolt hole with the threads in it has some rust as well. The hole to the left lower of the bolt hose was actually where the leak was.
http://www.gmdieseltech.com/images1/leaking_headgasket_block.gif
Here is the surface of the head, the large hole in the center of the "triangle" is the head bolt hole, the hole to the lower right is nearest the leak point.
http://www.gmdieseltech.com/images1/leaking_headgasket_head.gif
Here is the actual leak point on the head gasket, notice the black portion of the gasket is missing between the cylinder, coolant hole and head bolt hole.
http://www.gmdieseltech.com/images1/leaking_headgasket_gasket.gif
Just a close up shot of the area around the leak, head bolt hole is visable here as well.
http://www.gmdieseltech.com/images1/leaking_headgasket_bolthole.gif
[ 08-09-2005, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: dmaxalliTech ]
Thanks guys. Talked to the tech today and they are doing more "tests". I keep on pushing them to pull the heads and take a look but they want some other indicators I guess.
Ok- dealer confirmed a leak at the number 8 cyl. They are sending the head out for inspection and will get back to me tomorrow as to how long the repair will take. Since it has taken a week to get this far, I am not too hopeful in getting my truck back anytime soon. I think I have a valid complaint to the dealer or to GM that they should have diagnosed this long ago and they should pay for some or all of my rental. Will update later. Out.
Jim Brzozowski
08-12-2005, 10:57
Yeah, they should have figured it out a lot sooner.
Everyone says Eric is the best on the Dmax there is. Experience is everything, your dealer will have a more valuable tech after this experience. Tell them to take the car rental out of the training budget they should have spent on their tech sooner.
hd90rider
08-12-2005, 16:37
I had this same prob on my truck 2 1/2 yrs ago. My dealer talked to Gm & they told him to pull the left head & have it "hot tested" I think was the term. He did & a hair line crack was found. Now how did they know it would be the bad one... very interesting........they covered everything including a loaner. good luck
Is the left head the same as the "number 8 cyl" that was where my leak was? Just curious.
I will have a talk with the service manager and on up the chain to the GM Regional management if needed. We'll sort the rental costs out.
DmaxMaverick
08-13-2005, 20:02
The #8 cylinder is on the left, or driver's side, rearmost. It's opposite of other GM engines. If you look at the engine, you'll notice the right side front cylinder leads the left. On other GM V-8's, the lead cylinder is on the left.
That confirms its Japanese heritage ;) Things are reversed/opposite.
[ 08-16-2005, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: oyazi ]
Update - after 21 days in the shop they finally got the truck diagnosed and repaired the leaking head gasket. Instead of giving the truck back to me, they wanted to test drive it so one of the service techs drove it home. The next day, 22 day in the shop, they tell me that the coolant system is still pressurizing. They surmise that the heads are damaged/cracked. They say that they have to get GMs permission to replace the heads. I expect they'll have the truck another week or so.
My rental bill to date exceeds $1300. I am told that they will not reimburse it. I will be having a conversation with the service manager and possibly the dealership president. After that I guess I'll complain to GM.
trbankii
08-29-2005, 05:02
I would definitely continue to pursue the reimbursement. The first thing I'd be doing is sending an itemized list to both the dealer and GM that listed the whole timeline including dates and expenses.
You first took it in on such and such date, told them that you considered it to be a head gasket problem, they dismissed it as a hose problem, it cost this much, still didn't fix the problem, you had it back in on this date, took them this long, rental fees, etc.
At the bottom total up days from first discussion with them and total up all the money spent. That should get their attention. I'm not saying you'll get all of it back, but once they see the big number they may be more willing to at least give you some amount of it.
If you know any legal types, see if you could pay them for an hour to type up your information and send it to the dealer and GM on their letterhead. That usually gets the ball rolling pretty quickly... smile.gif
Update- Service manager got GM to pay for the rental from this point forward. Heads are on order and are due in tomorrow so I am thinking this will take another week in the shop. Will update on the truck and any luck I have with reimbursement for the rental to date.
01 dmax same prob in the shop now for 3 weeks #8 cylinder. Itold them head gasket 3 times itsbenn in the shop. Finally they had it for 3 weeks. Any sggestions on what they are doing.. i mean i was told they were just replacing the head gaskeet should they of done anything else. This is a problem. The dmax ight have a flaw here.
There is definately a flaw here. The problem seems not to be with the head gasket but with the heads. The tech working on my truck told me that GM admitted to him that they have been replacing A TON of heads. There is some sort of defect in their construction - perforated is what he called it.
The dealers are forced to go through protocol which means they have to replace the head gasket and see if that solves the problem (which is rarely does). Then they replace the heads. If that does not work - new engine or buy-back your truck.
Mine is still in the shop.
Heads have "porosity" was what he called it.
see "Topic: 01 dmax head gasket blown " After all the work they did on my truck they still never replaced the injecters.
More Power
09-02-2005, 08:15
LTChip - Get your dealer mechanic to specify a GM document outlining the head problem. We'll do a big story if it's true. I think he's blowing smoke.
Jim
I think it was verbal but if I can find out a doc I will post the reference here.
He said it in context of the protocol because they force the dealers to do all the work of replacing the head gasket (which apparantly does not work since it is a head flaw problem) regardless of the condition of the gasket before they will let them replace the heads. The dealers apparantly will only get paid a fixed amount for this problem from GM so this mechanic was frustrated with that conflict between protocol and compensation.
I am hoping that they have worked with the head maker to get this solved because I dont want to receive flawed new ones.
Got the truck back so far so good but how long till the head gasket went again lt chip. Im only on the first phase i quess. the dealership is pretty big here in pa and they told me this is only the 2nd head gasket on a duramax they have seen. When it blows again i wondr if there's anything i can do to speed up this process. This sounds like a terrile path to ride down
It isn't fun having your truck in the shop for a month and counting. $1300+ rental bill sucks too.
GM put me in a 2wd crew cab 1500 so at least I can haul my trash to the dump and the rental situation has stopped bleeding me dry.
Went to visit my truck on Friday and it is ugly. Lots of parts in lots of bins. Two new heads sitting on the ground. Looks like it'll be another week at this rate.
My dealer is a pretty big dealer too and they claim that this is the first one they have had with head problems but at the same time the mechanic said that GM admitted to him that there are lots of heads being replaced.
Update - dealer called and said everything was done. Went to pick up the truck, got in, turned the key, SES light!
Left the truck there. Today the called me again and said it is ready. SES turned out to be a bad #8 Glow Plug.
Hope it is done. I miss my truck.
Aleast its back i had mine for a few weeks took a couple 300 mile trips so far so good. Where see how long it last for. Towed only a few times 8500 lbs ran great. Keep me updated
I went to check on my truck once after about three weeks of head work and found it in the back lot with the parts in the the back of the truck under a tarp.Will never go back there again and as I posted in another thread I had my fingers crossed that no codes would come on when I took it to the dealer I unloaded it on. I would of had a moral delima selling it to a private party but had no trouble selling it to another dealer. Its been a few months now and has not sold yet. I loved that truck until the problems started to come up.caveat emptor!
FrankA - which dealer did the service on your truck in SoCal? (I will add them to my "do not use" list).
Alan
Well, after the glow plug was replaced and I picked her up on Sat - I ran the truck pretty hard and long this week putting about 500 miles on it. Seems to be running better than ever. Got good milage, with the Juice on 3/5 it got 18.5mpg. I am happy to have the truck back. Now on to fight GM for the reimbursement on the first 21 days of rental.
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