235's on a 3500 ? [Archive] - TheDieselPage.com Forums

bbattrell

08-06-2002, 19:59

Has anyone put 1" spacers on their 3500. I just received a couple from Performance wheel http://www.performancewheel.com/adapters.html
They bolt on with the inside wheel, and then have a seperate stud for the outside wheel. The thing is I will have to cut 1/2" of thread off the existing studs so the outside wheel dosn't hit them. I am a little nervous about this because I have a slidein camper that weighs 4500 LBS . Does anyone have any experience whith this.

Maverick

08-06-2002, 20:36

I wouldn't do it. It would probably be OK but I still wouldn't do it. Get those spacers that Mac had. He didn't have to cut his studs.

bbattrell

08-06-2002, 21:42

The more I think about it to be on the safe side I should get some 19.5.
With 215 E I am only good for 2450 per wheel. With 235 E its good for 2780, but with the 19.5" 70 225 F it is 3415.
I drive on some pretty rough roads at times there is only one of the dual wheels taking the weight. I don't understand wy Alcoa can't make a 19.5" wheel that will fit our 8 lug axcel. 900 bucks for adapter's seems like alot to pay.
Bill

Maverick

08-06-2002, 22:31

If you go here> http://www.ricksontruck.com/home.html <, Rickson makes a 19.5 that will bolt on your truck with the stock lugs. The down side is they are around $500 a piece. The Alcoa's are $250. Mdrag and I have researched this to its full potential and found our set up to be the best in my opinion. The Alcoa wheel is rated at 6600lbs per wheel. I don't know what Rickson is (Mdrag). If you ever have a problem with a wheel (Alcoa) you can go anywhere in the US and get a replacement. With the Rickson you are stuck with him because he is the only one you can get them from. Besides, we(Mdrag) think the big A@@ 10 lug bolt pattern looks way better the puny 8 bolt....on a 19.5.

mdrag

08-06-2002, 22:34

bbattrell,

Another option for the 19.5" conversion is using Rickson wheels with the correct 8 lug bolt pattern (no adapters required):

www.ricksontruck.com/wheels-GM-DRW.html

It will still work close to the same $$ since the Rickson 19.5" x 6.75" steel is $247 and polished aluminum is $500 :eek: (vs $220 machine finish/$235 inside polish/$250 outside polish for the 19.5" x 7.5" Alcoas).

During one of many phone calls, I spoke with a woman at Alcoa in Cleveland OH - probably the most knowledgeable person I spoke with about Alcoa wheels. Alcoa will be coming out with 19.5" 8 lug aluminum wheels for our trucks, and they will be sold exclusively through Rickson...but no ETA yet, and if the Hotshot multiple delays are any indication, I would not hold my breath.... I don't know if prices have been set, but I'd bet it will not be much different than the current Rickson prices...

IMHO, the larger 285mm/10 lug bolt pattern looks better than the 8 lug pattern on these wheels :D

mdrag

08-06-2002, 22:39

I was typing a reply and did not see Maverick's post...

The 19.5" x 6.75" Rickson alum or steel wheels are rated 3500 lbs each vs 6600 lbs for the 19.5" x 7.5" Alcoa.

mdrag

Maverick

08-06-2002, 22:47

Hah Hah Mdrag.....beat you to it. That too wierd isn't it. We both talked about the same thing.

mdrag

08-06-2002, 22:59

Maverick,

Yea, wierd...

I looked up the Alcoa 19.5" x 6.75" specs - 5515 lb rating for a direct comparison with the same size as the Rickson mentioned above (3500 lbs). I really wanted the 6.75" width, but found they are/are not/really are available from Alcoa in that size. The problem is that I could not find a distributor with the 19.5" x 6.75" Alcoa in stock - and Alcoa needs an order for 200 to make more....

mdrag

NickLeinonen

08-07-2002, 06:32

just a note... app forged wheels makes a direct bolt in 19.5" wheel for gm 8x6.5" pattern... search on google for the app forged wheels to find the site.. gotta fly. late for work...

mdrag

08-07-2002, 08:17

I believe the APP wheels are priced in the same range as the Rickson's, and APP does not offer a steel wheel...The OEM setup will not accept 2 aluminum wheels per dual since the hub lip is not wide enough...

www.appwheels.com

mdrag

01_Duramax_Dually

08-07-2002, 10:08

Hey you BIG WHEEL guys... :D

I have been looking into this like you guys. I guess I am having a hard time with the math. I guess the first question would be why you need a wheel that can support 5,000+ pounds??? and 6 of them no less...

What are we carrying here????

I looked at the conversion that Mav and Mdrag did. Very very nice. But the price was a deterrent. All said and done it would be a $4K plus conversion including shipping.

HOLY SCHNIKES...Funny how we spend our hard earned cash........I want a $2500 air to water intercooler for the race car...people say "That's NUTS...But then people say $4K for wheels is OK....go figure...

:D You guys are Kings....

So Alcoa may make a 19.5 wheel for our 8 lug set up??..That would be great. 3300lb a wheel is MORE than any of us consumers would ever need.

Now just how long it will take for them to make them....Sadly...No one knows

mdrag

08-07-2002, 10:42

01_Duramax_Drooley,

I understand and agree with your thoughts...After seeing the 19.5" conversion - I knew that I would not have been happy with the Hotshots (or other currently available wheel choices) if they ever come out, and in the end satisfaction is what matters the most to me. I'm :D :D :D

Another rationalization:

One other thing to consider is that these tires should easily obtain 100K or more miles - so 2 to 3 times the tire life - and you actually could end up ahead if you put on enough miles. Someone like Broker could actually save money over the long term doing this...

I do plan to keep the truck for the long haul. Since the wheels are not truck specific, they could be used on another truck (with the correct adapters) if my taste in vehicles or plans happen to change :eek:

01_Duramax_Dually

08-07-2002, 11:26

MDRAG

So very true. I like the thoughts of the 19.5'ers with the 8 lug pattern. I am not a HUGE adapter fan personally.
I definetly like the idea of better tires which is why I changed to 16inchers on my car trailer. The better load range is better for safety :D

Now if Alcoa will come out with some wheels in the $350 area it would be a palatable upgrade...

I can get the tires for cheap....the wheels are the big bankola

Neverthless you guys are the true upgrade kings...However I have to make a choice and the Air to water intercooler is a must if I want to try and get to the 7's.... :eek: :D

IndigoDually

08-07-2002, 14:07

The tire life vs cost is a good arguement. I just think that you can hit a piece of steel in the road with a $100 tire and be mad or hit it with a $200+ tire and be P@@SED. I can but 235's for under $100 and they last pretty well, I also probably won't keep the truck long enough to reap the benefits of the 19.5's. With my luck adapters won't be available for whatever I buy next (just the way it goes). I also dread hitting a curb in the snow with one of those obscenely priced aluminium wheels.

John

Cowboy_120

08-07-2002, 16:55

I just put Michelin LTX A/T 235/85/16 on my 3500 with no spacers and loaded up my 40' horse trailer with approximately 4500lbs of wieght directly into the bed of the truck and the wheels are not rubbing at all. With horses loaded and all tack, the trailer weights in at approx. 17,000lbs with a weight transfer of about 35% into the bed of the truck. If you can get away without spacers, then why not. An if you can't, why not get 1/2 inch spacers so you can use the regular lug nuts?

mackin

08-07-2002, 17:22

bbattrell,

It's some timers creeping up on me....... :eek:
Kev,Indingo,and I went back and forth on the spacer thing for awhile.....Kev was the only one who did it with 1 3/4 "spacers....Yes he had to cut his studs something I was not interested in doing because I felt it would impair the possibility of running my steel rims in the winter,with the factory lugnuts......So when the 1" spacers came up I should have told you so, Duh on my part......The 2" spacers are the only ones that you will not have to modify the stock studs.. I put them on with 235/85 16 and thought the gap was a bit much ..... Take a look at the PICS in my SIG.....So I run spacer less with the 235/85... I have a good commercial Michelin which are side steel belted so I'm not concerened....You should be able to run 235/75 with out a problem......The 85's are tight see PICS......The 2" spacers in my opinion would be good if you were to run a real wide tire but with my 85's they did come clear out to the dually fender.....I still have them, was offered 50 bucks by some one on the TDR and elected to keep as paper weights.......I LONG for a LONGER stud in order to run a STUD less spacer......With centering lugnuts required on the Ultra Wheels hub centering is not needed any more.....I believe the 2" spacers would be better saved to do what they were designed for, TRACK CORRECTION, on a 4x4 .... Move the rear out to match the front on a single rear axle......Not sure if I'm gonna keep them or panhandle as someday I may want to use as mentioned.....
As far as the 19.5 ya they are pretty but carry a heavy price tag....I'll wait for Christmas,for mine....... tongue.gif Plus I really like the ULTRA WHEELS I chose..Anouther MOTHER'S polish this past SAT,and man they shine .....Saves money for performance devices.....Plus MDRAG never drives his it's for show and tell....... tongue.gif Know MAV he's a driver .......He'll spin them Alcoas more then backing in and out of the garage to snap some more PICS....... ;)

MAC tongue.gif

[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]

bbattrell

08-07-2002, 17:45

OK you all gave me alot of option's. I was thinking about the APP wheels, but they want 490 a wheel at America's tire store. If I can find somone willing to deal on them I think I might go that road. If not I am going to put 235 Michellin's on, and try it without spacers. I don't have much time to do somthing I have 65,000 miles on my Wrangler's, and the front just started showing steel cord's last week.

IndigoDually

08-08-2002, 06:16

If 235/75's will fit then 235/85's will fit. The 235 is the width of the cross section(in millimeters). The 75 is the height of the sidewall(determined as a percentage of the width.

A 235/75 should be 235 mm. treadwidth with a sidewall height of 176.25 mm. While the 235/85 should be 199.75 mm high.

Correct me if I am wrong but that's how I was told to read tire sizes. These are a little easier to figure an actual size than the old G-60's or N-50's. Does tis ring a bell to any of you older rodders out there?

John

bbattrell

08-08-2002, 06:42

John
You maybe right. The problem is I don't see Michellin listing a 235/75/E rated tire at least not the EPS, or LTX. It say's 215/85/E 8.8" on a 6" rim a 235/85/E is 9.6" on 6.5" rim.

Cowboy_120

08-08-2002, 08:46

so then just get the 285/85's. They fill out the wheel well real nice, and I certainly can recomend the Michelin LTX A/T. I previously had the Michelin XPS Traction which were good, but I like the tread pattern of the LTX much better and the road noise seems to have decreased some.

IndigoDually

08-08-2002, 11:23

Cowboy, Is that the size that You are running? If so then how are they working? If You can measure them and give me a height and width of them along with how much space that there is between the duals. Ant rubbing?

John

Cowboy_120

08-08-2002, 16:46

indigo, yes that is the size I am running. great tires, and I got them for 195$ CAN each, installed and balanced. A little high in price but I think you get what you pay for. I will have to get back to you on the measurements because a friend of mine has borrowed it to take some horses to Kentucky, and will be back on sunday. I will let you know then, but if I can remmeber correctly, there is about 3/4 of an inch space between them when the truck is unloaded. I will also try to post some pics on sunday. check back around 3 or 4pm eastern time

Redhawk

08-08-2002, 16:48

Cowboy--Is 285/85 a typo? Did you mean to say 235/85? When my tires need replacing I was thinking about taking your advice and putting on 235/85's If they will fit without rubbing or need spacers. My tow is about 10,000 lbs.

[ 08-08-2002: Message edited by: Redhawk ]

Cowboy_120

08-08-2002, 20:15

ya sorry, typo. i meant 235/85/16. I will be towing between 15000-17000lbs, depending on the size of the hay burners that week! overall trailer length is 40 feet, and with the axel placement where it is, it puts about 30-35% of the weight directly into the truck. They are a great looking tire, and if they wear like my other Michelins (XPS Traction) where they lasted 80,000 kms and still had a lot of tread on them I will be very happy. The only reason I went larger was becuase of the new trailer and since winter was comig, I wasnt going to get another 6 months out of my old ones.

01_Duramax_Dually

08-09-2002, 08:10

Cowboy_120,
Thats good news. I am about ready to buy some hides for the truck. Since I have towed so much my tires are just not holding up well. I have over 30K on the Goodyears but they are starting to get thin in the back. Although probably could hang in there for 7K more, Hate to be in desert and have one go with a trailer attached.

It appears the 235/85/16 will work without problems and Michelin seems to be the tire of choice. Is the LTX an "All Terrain" rated tire. I am not puttin chains on my truck so I need to know...Thanks all. I would really like to make the switch to 19.5's but man...

Carry On... :D

Cowboy_120

08-10-2002, 20:11

With the LTX you have 3 options. you can get the LTX A/T which is all terrain, and when I post pics tommorrow, you will see that the tread is still pretty aggressive, but it rides really nice. There is also the LTX M/S (Mud and snow, even though it doesnt look any beteer than the others) which has a slightly less aggressive tread and is better for long distance hauling on highways only. And there is also the LTX A/S (All season) but I figure if you are going that route, you may as well get the A/T.
Take a look at www.michelin.ca and put in what type of tire you want. Again, I will post picks tomorrow afternoon. Hope this helps.

bbattrell

08-11-2002, 16:15

I had some Michellin XPS Traction 235/85/E tires installed today at Costco. Apparently the Michellin LTX A/T is a slightly thinner tire. I have 1/4" between them at the ground with 80 psi. With the camper they rub. I am now thinking I will probably get some Ultra wheels. I figure if I go all aluminum wheel's, and use the 1" spacer's I should have to cut less then a 1/4" of threads off. Like Mac said the only way the spacers will work is on a stud centered wheel, because there is only room for 1 steel, and 1 aluminum wheel on our hub cetered axel's. I wish there was a easy way of doing this.I guess there is if you just stay with the 215's, but they were under rated for my camper. When I looked between the duals they were badly disfigured, and bubbled maybe tire related, but probably weight related.Anyways here's som pictures. http://www.picturetrail.com/billb/1000238

[ 08-11-2002: Message edited by: bbattrell ]

mackin

08-11-2002, 16:44

bbattrell ,

The are some real nice tires, although I new they would be tight......Worth the investment I'm sure......Puts the stockers to shame....How ever says they'll fit with no rubbing should take a second look at theirs......Mine are exactly as yours are,to the tee,when it comes to the fit......

My buddy is in New Hampshire at Lake Winnipesaukee....
He mentioned he had a set on the way for someone else.....There is two styles......Like mine, and oblong holes he got .... I didn't care for them, but he likes them .......When he gets back I'll snap a PIC so you can see, and get a price for ya same either way......If you want.......
=>http://www.ultrawheel.com/ They don't show the oblong style although.....
Here is another link you will want to hang on to=>http://www.jaeeagle.com/index.html For nuts and Stainless caps......Good company ...... I ordered some stuff and they were afraid I wasn't sure that they wouldn't work in conjunction with each other and they called me until they got a hold of me to make sure I wanted it,which I did,and new they wouldn't work together ......That is CUSTOMER service .....They just wouldn't ship, just for the sale.....AAA

MAC smile.gif

[ 08-11-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]

bbattrell

08-11-2002, 17:45

Mackin
I like the style you got. My only concern is they are pressure cast, rather then forged. Do you know the weight rating is on them? They don't say on their web site. I don't care for the hotshot. The oblong pattern dosn't look right on a small wheel. I like them on the 22, and 24's though. Maybe I would like the 16" hotshot if it had more and smaller holes, rather then 5 big holes.
Thanks
Bill

Cowboy_120

08-11-2002, 18:00

okay, here are some pics of the Michelin LTX A/T 235/85/16.

http://www.picturetrail.com/cowboy_120/1065540

There is just a little over 1/4 inch space between them when the truck is unloaded, and unfortunately I dont have th trailer or the horses to load it with to take picks, but it leaves about 1/8 of an inch of space. The tires are exactly 31" from front to back.

bbattrell

08-11-2002, 18:15

I think if someone would come out with a rim with another 1/2" of offset they would sell quite a few to people wanting 235's. I realize this wouldn't work on the inside wheel, because of the new larger disc brake.

mackin

08-11-2002, 18:38

bbattrell ,

No, I don't know the rating off hand but I can and will find out ... I never bothered to ask Joe (my buddy) but he'll now.....This is my first experience with buying after market rims for a dually I felt any predecessors (3) were not worthy.....His experience as I am witness to is he has a set on his 93 dually and has over a whopping 300,000+ whopping overloaded hauling and towing curb bouncing scraping allowing everyone he knows drive this truck and they have stood the test..... He has the same set new for his 02 dually.....Mind you he is in the Trucking business.....This is why I never asked and trusted him......But I will find out just so when I'm asked I'll be able to give a correct answer.....I can understand you wanting to know......Most Alum OEM are pressure casted wheels......

Perhaps if you wanted to run Aluminum in the inside you may not have to cut your stock studs......Is the added price worthy? Believe me if I new it would work I would order a set a fronts to put back there .......

MAC

[ 08-11-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]

bbattrell

08-11-2002, 18:48

Mac
I am looking forward to some info. I won't be using the camper untill I get some wheel's.
Hey one more question how much thicker are the Ultra's then the steel wheel's?
Thanks
Bill

GreyPower3500

08-12-2002, 13:36

Cowboy & billb:

Thanks much for taking the time to post pics of the 235/85-16's for us. I needed to see just how close the duals were running before deciding.

I'm in an awful hurry to lose these idiotic puny Wrangler SR pizza-cutters. Nothing but trouble with all the sidewall seams bulging and vibration that I can't seem to cure...

If I were REALLY putting on a lot of miles I wouldn't hesistate to make the ricksontruck-dot-com conversion up to steel 8-bolt 19.5" rims and never have to think about it again. Might call them to see if they've got a better offset on a steel wheel that'll allow the 235's, though...

Until I looked at the pics, I was hoping 235/85-16E's on the stock rims were the answer. In typical fashion, GM tried to save a $100 bucks per truck and stick us with a useless rim/tire combination. Come to think of it, they pulled the same crap with the towing mirrows. Just paid out $600 CDN to CIPA mirrors for these great Lucerix clones. Yeah, thanks a bunch, there, GM...

Sign me: "still looking..."

Regards.

mackin

08-13-2002, 13:09

bbattrell,

Shoot me an Email.........

OK,
Rims are 16"x6" polished one side......
Thickness is nearly 3/4 of an inch.......This was taken from the other style rim, the 02 Dually may be slightly thinner.......
Weight off rim is 25#'s
Rim Bore (hub)is 5 1/8 "Load capacity is 2900/3000
Front and rear are NOT interchangeable.......This sucks......
Offsets are different, has nothing to do with stock steel rims.....I have no spare..... If I don't carry a set of lugnuts with me, so I can put a steel rim from out back to the front, I'm stranded...Glad I found this out............You can always limp with one rear......You or others will be OK if you retain your spare with the correct size tire, and a set of stock lugnuts.......Price E-MAIL me .........If still interested......It's never easy........

MAC