How hard to convert 2WD to 4WD?

[SoCalDMAX]

I've got a 2WD 2500HD and it tows like a dream. But when I get to the sand dunes, the 11-12,000 lbs of trailer really drag it down. Got plenty of power, plenty of tire (305s) but too much air pressure (60psi) and only 2wd. Probably 40% of the time I get stuck in a soft spot.

If I air down to 20 or 25 psi, it helps a great deal (a lot more than I imagined) but then it takes 20 min or so to pump them back up for the return trip. I think the ultimate solution to stop getting embarrassed while being pulled out by Ford owners with digital cameras (why do they all own cameras and think they need a pic of this? Just because I blew by them on the fwy?) is to convert it over to 4WD.

So here are my questions:

1. Does anyone feel that 4WD would help all that much, especially with that much trailer behind me?

2. Is it a lot of work to install all of the parts? Would it be worth it?

3. Anybody got a ballpark estimate how much the necessary parts might cost at a wrecking yard?

Thanks in advance, Steve

[mackey_62]

:eek:
You know what? I started answering the questions by number and erased it all....
Just buy a new 4x4.

Wish I had some of your spare time :D

[Idle_Chatter]

I'm afraid that Mackey is right, SoCal. With the cost of the parts being so much more that the whole truck (can you say "chop shop?") it would be a lot easier and cheaper to trade-in for a 4x4 or work out a used-used swap or trade on the Internet. :(

[2K2AD]

Wow. I couldn'd imagine what that would cost. Then again, I wouldn't want to trade that virgin motor in on something else yet, either.

Kevin

[TooMuchMuscle]

2wd to 4wd conversions usually cost 4k-10k... The big difference in cost comes from availability in front axles and custom springs... Your best bet would be to locate an early 70's Ford Dana 60 front end and then contact Off Road Unlimited in Burbank, CA... I dont work for them and dont have a great relationship with the fellows there, but they do great work if you have the money... You should be able to pick up a conversion shackle kit from them for 1k or less... Then all you need is custom springs and shocks... Best of luck...

[Idle_Chatter]

I don't think an axle and some shackles is going to do it on a DMax, TooMuch. What about transfer case, brackets, knuckles, shafts, front diff, wiring harness, controls, hubs, spindles, (just to name a few off the top of my head). It would be a monumental task in a modern IFS truck, even if you got a whole rear-ended truck to work with for parts. I don't think he's talking about slapping a 70 Ford Dana up under the front of his DMax. ;)

[SoCalDMAX]

Thanks for the replies guys!

That's kinda what I suspected... way too much trouble and money, especially for the few times I'll use it.

I'm kinda undecided. A friend of mine told me he'd "help" (advise) me build my dream 40ft 5er toybox. But lately he's been mentioning that my 2WD truck is going to be even more limited with that much more trailer behind it. He's been suggesting buying a used Kenworth or Peterbuilt with a 450hp Cummins or similar and simply building a 50ft trailer based on that. Then I'm not limited to 15 or 16,000lb, the rig could tow up to 80,000lb. He kinda hinted that one can engage both axles and get power to 8 wheels, but as narrow as semi truck tires are, I'm not sure that would be any advantage in the sand.

He's selling clean used trucks with about 200,000mi on them for under $10,000. So I might use my Dmax with this setup for this season and next and then reconsider my options then.

Regards, Steve

[2K2AD]

Then I'm not limited to 15 or 16,000lb, the rig could tow up to 80,000lb. He kinda hinted that one can engage both axles and get power to 8 wheels, but as narrow as semi truck tires are, I'm not sure that would be any advantage in the sand. Think of what kind of pics those ford guys would have then...

[SoCalDMAX]

LOL!! I didn't even think of that! I was envisioning a $300 towing bill from the guy with the bulldozer that pulls out the Mohos...

Regards, Steve

[ 11-26-2003, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: SoCalDMAX ]

[McRat]

Getting stuck at Glamis is a favorite pasttime for SoCal truck owners. 4x4's get stuck just as often as 2wd's.

It's more technique than technology. Some things to consider:

You already mentioned tire pressure. BINGO that's a biggy. 20PSI is great. Bring a $25 air cylinder with you to re-inflate the tires. Don't forget the trailer tires.

If you don't already have posi, get it.

Pick the spot you are going park at carefully and on foot. Slightly downhill is perfect. You should have a straight exit path for at least 10 feet.

When parking, do not stop until you get to your site. When you are approaching your site, coast to a stop instead of using your brakes to void sinking.

If you are REALLY worried, bring 2 pieces of plywood to put under the trailer tires.

And the most important thing of all, know your limits. Soft sand will stick an unladen 4x4 truck. Your trailer ain't going to improve matters.

I used a 2wd E350 without posi to go to Glamis towing a 7,000lb toybox. I haven't been stuck with it. But I learned the hard way in my old GMC. Getting stuck is not as much fun as it looks.

[McRat]

I know everyone has a 100 stories like, but I always like this one:

In our camp area near the Store at Glamis, a Bluebird Motorhome got stuck hard. You know, the ones that look like Grayhound buses? So they try to dig it out for a few hours. Nada. A big ass Ford 4x4 with 12" lift and HUGE tires powered with a big-block tries to pull him out. He sinks it down to the axles. Now there are two stuck vehicles. This guy comes up in a V6 Jeep with smoothies on all 4. Big wide soft sand-specific tires. He pulls the Ford out. Cheers and laughter!

THEN HE PULLS THE BLUEBIRD OUT!!!! HOLY SMOKES!!! Complete silence for 10 seconds except the sound of jaws dropping to the floor. Then everyone broke out in cheers. It was amazing.

[JoeyD]

I bet you could do you convert for under 2,000 if you source the parts yourself. The front suspension is the same I think, torsion bars and all. There is a plate on the inside of the knuckle where the axle would go.
Get all the parts from a wrecked truck and install them, they should bolt to the frame in the correct spots. The trans would need to have the tail shaft changed and the t-case installed.
List of parts
1- front diff
2- half shafts
3- t-case
4- driveshafts
5- tail housing
6- cable acuator for the front diff
7- t-case shifter and linkage
8- free time

Would it be worth doing, probably not as the resale will suffer. If your keeping it till it dies then do it.

[Kent Tuttle]

Steve, I hear what you are saying about having to air down and then air back up when leaving. Although since doing this I have not gotten stuck. I too have ask myself about going with a 4wd truck but 2 weeks ago I saw one up to the axles with a trailer in tow at wash 25. Figured it is just cheaper for now to keep dealing the air in the tires. Also, McRat has some great points on not getting stuck a Glamis.

[sdaver]

http://www.offroadjeepparts.com/purchase/product.asp?uid=73648965&item=440

best deflator by far other than laughing and pointing :D dave

[SoCalDMAX]

Thanks for the replies!

I have a scuba tank with a regulator that holds a lot of air, so airing back up isn't all that bad. So airing down the front tires and the trailer tires would help a lot?

Honestly, most of my problems have been due to laziness. I try to make it in or out at night without airing down. With 55-60psi in all of the tires and not seeing the soft spots, it's no wonder I've gotten stuck a few times!

I camped with a guy this T Day at Gordons Well who has a stock Suzuki Samurai. He has slightly wider tires aired down to 11psi and he goes everywhere in the dunes! He cruises around just like a sand rail! We were traveling with an older 3/4 ton Chevy that was getting stuck every 200 ft or so on an established trail. The little Samurai would jerk him right back out and we'd continue. Once, the Chevy driver was out looking at the tires and left it in Park. The Samurai driver didn't know, and gave it a good jerk and moved it 2 feet or so, even in Park! A crowd was watching and started cheering when they saw how effective the little Sammy was!

Regards, Steve