boost controllers

[arrowheadracing]

Just wondered how many people using the manual (non vacuum ) setups and the experience they have with them. I currently have an electronic setup, but have a bad vacuum diaphram. Was looking at going to a manual setup to eliminate the headaches. Seems like the manual one would be more reliable in the long run.

Thanks
Todd

[GMC Hauler]

There is lots of heated controversy over this one:

I like the mechanical system, because it is more reliable. You set it and forget it. I have heard of no breakdowns with this system.

The electronic system has the capability of adjusting for altitude changes, I think. It also can control boost more precisely. The mechanical system is spring loaded and doesn't relieve exactly at one value i.e. it starts to partially open at some value and is fully open ant a higher value. The vacuum system can overcome this.

The vacuum system is prone to failure, though. Many have had good service from it, but something will eventually will fail, and can sometimes be difficult to troubleshoot.

The vacuum pump can fail
The wastegate control solenoid can fail, especially intermittently.
The wiring to the solenoid can fail, especialy intermittently.
The vacuum lines can leak
The PCM could fail (unlikely)
The boost pressure sensor (the sensor that reads intake manifold pressure) can fail, not uncommon.

Boost pressure is higher peak and overall with the mechanical system. Kennedy makes a device to plug into your boost pressure sensor that allows you to adjust boost pressure just as easily as the mechanical system. The thing I dont like about this is if you use a laptop OBD II interface to read or record data from your PCM, it will read boost pressure incorrectly. That may not be important to you, though.

Boost pressure on the factory system is all over. You will see lower exhaust gas temperatures and less black smoke from a mechanical system (at least on a stock PCM)

When both systems operate properly, they work fine. It is mostly personal preference which way you choose. I choose the mechanical system, because I have determined that reliability is paramount to me.

If you run a mechanical system, you can remove the vacuum pump (asuming you have do not have the EGR system), which reduces the amount of power needed. I'm sure it's not much, but every bit counts.

The PCM will need to see the wastegate control solenoid plugged in (the PCM loks at current through the solenoid). If it is not, the PCM can set a code. There are work arounds around this.

The mechanical system is cheaper than the common wear related items for the vacuum system. (the vacuum pump is about $120 last time I checked)

Heath Diesel (http://www.heathdiesel.com/) and Kennedy Diesel (http://www.kennedydiesel.com/) each sell one, and I have heard of a few mwmbers making their own mechanical systems.

[Jim P]

I have a mechanical wastegate controler that I made myself. All it consists of is a rod welded to a bolt head. this bolt goes throught wastegate shaft lever and it has a groove machined in the bolt for a snap ring to keep it from coming out. The rod goes through a bracket mounted to the turbo and a spring is then slipped over the rod and a washer and nut is threaded onto the rod. The nut is then adjusted to get the required boost.

Right now, my wastegate opens at exactly 17 psi everytime. I can adjust it to anything I want. I have had it set to 25 psi before but the truck don't have much more power so I didn't see the need to keep it this high.

If you have a bad vaccuum canister, you could probably salvage the bracket for the rod to go through and also the rod. All you need to do it thread the rod or cut it off and weld a threaded bolt to it for your adjustment. Then all you need is a spring.

[arrowheadracing]

Jim,
Very interested in asking you some questions on your truck. I also have a 95 2500 and you have most of the parts I do plus some, I d like to ask you some questions about them. Could you email me at service@customizedcreations. If you have any pictures that would be great too.

Thanks
Todd

[rjschoolcraft]

Originally posted by GMC Hauler:
Boost pressure is higher peak and overall with the mechanical system. That statement isn't quite true.

For the rest, you've done a good job of stating the pro's and con's of both...with only a little detectable bias toward the mechanical controller. Me?... I like the electronic.

[GMC Hauler]

Thanks Ron.

I am biased towards the mechanical because I believe if you look at all the pro's and con's, the mechanical system outweighs the electrical. Again, this is a personal preference, I do try my best to offer any and all info.

I have experienced a higher boost crusing with the mechanical system than with the stock system. I guess you could use Kennedy's boost fooler, but wouldn't boost still fluctuate alot, just at a higher pressure? I have never used his fooler, maybe someone else could shed some light on this?

My stock system would see 0-4# crusing on the highway.

The mechanical system would see a more steady of 3 to 4# crusing, but never dropped to 0. Overall, EGT was slightly lower with the mechanical system. With the head cracking problems, I figure that keeping it a bit cooler may help to extend engine longevity.

Arrowheadracing,

Maybe a phone call to Bill Heath and John Kennedy is in order. Bill prefers the mechanical system and John prefers the electronic. They're arguments for and against each might help you close the deal.

[ 03-14-2005, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: GMC Hauler ]

[rjschoolcraft]

The lower egt's are the result of higher boost pressure, not the fact that you used the mechanical controller.

I'll freely admit that the electronic system has its glitches, but when tuned properly, it can do some things the mechanical cannot. That's why I like it.

You are right about cracked head concerns. Running higher boost with resultant lower egt is the right way to go.

[dmitch]

I am curious about a boost controller without a chip. I ahve a 95 1500 with banks stinger kit, guages, JK Fan Clutch and Fan soon to install cooling upgrade. Will I benefit from a boost controller without a chip?

Thanks, Dan

[arrowheadracing]

I have the electronic fooler right now. I just have a bad diaphram can and it would cost more to fix that , then it would to make a mechanical setup. Thats the main reason I ask.
My electronic one seemed to be inconistent , atleast in my view. Not sure if the mechnical one would be the same or not. Dont get me wrong I liked the electronic one and wouldnt be asking this question if I didnt have to replace the diaphram.

Thanks

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
I had the JK elctronic control and then switched to the turbomaster mechanical.
I have No complaints about either one. The main difference that I saw was the electronic one was not as steady as the mechanical. This could be due to many different things I suppose. The mechanical seems more predictable. I run/ran about 12-13 PSI max with both. at road speed(70mph) the electric was at about 5psi the mechanical is about 4psi. One thing I did notice is that the truck does not down shift on certain hills with the cruise on anymore, with the electric it did.
My reason for the switch was also for reliabilty and power gains(as said above, everylittle bit helps). In other words NO VAC system. I removed it completely. No codes either with Heath computer. :D
Hope this helps....
L8r
Conley Janssen
USMC87-93

[MJEasly]

Is there a difference in drivability between the two systems (i.e., power delivery)?

[Cowracer]

Originally posted by dmitch:
I am curious about a boost controller without a chip. I ahve a 95 1500 with banks stinger kit, guages, JK Fan Clutch and Fan soon to install cooling upgrade. Will I benefit from a boost controller without a chip?

Thanks, Dan Dan,

You can use a mechanical boost controller with a stock chip, but with the stock chip if you exceed the boost limit (~7lbs) the computer thows out a big WHOA FELLA and pulls fuel and sets a code. Benifets with stock chip are steadier boost at all levels and elimination of problematic vacuum system.

IIRC Kennedys boost fooler make the computer think in only has 7 lbs when it really has 10 or whatever. Benifits with stock chip is more actual boost than stock.

I personally have a Turbo-Master, and had zero problems with it for over 1-1/2 years.

Tim

[dmitch]

Thanks Tim, I guess I'll spring for the chip also. Appreciate the advice.

Dan

[Barry Nave]

GMC Hauler,and others.
Can not get my Elect.boost to work,this boost psi sensor,if this unit fails can it be the reason why I'm not getting the boost to work. As of now the vac. is bypassed. I can over boost if I wot. My boost gauge only goes to 15psi and can pag it. This boost sensor, once I did a wot 0-60 mph the ses light came on,code 78. even though boost is by-passed and waste gate silly is pluged in tells me something about the elect. on the ecm is working. I also have JK fooler. I remove it and that was not the problem.
I thought the ECM does not read over boost? other then high boost cause high temps.
Would not mine trying to get to the bottom of this elect. boost and if I don't then it goes and the mech. boost control goes in.
Conseder the cost of mataing the elect,for myself. 1 vac pump,new line set,2 solenoid and the #2 solenoid,this time did not fix my boost as in the pass with the code 78. Getting tired of trying to keep the elec. boost going when I cant get it figured out :rolleyes:
Is there a test for the boost sensor?

[ 04-27-2005, 01:50 AM: Message edited by: Bnave95 ]

[Barry Nave]

dmitch,Dan
I also installed the Bank Stinger kit on my 95 back in 98. Came with gauges,Ext.,intake mods,K&N and there Chip. You don't have a Banks chip?

[Kennedy]

Barry,

With my chip you typically do not need a boost controller, as it will call for the boost itself.

[GMC Hauler]

Bnave,
I am not sure about checking the boost sensor. I know with my laptop reader, I can watch the output of the sensor. I think you could use an ohm meter and a small pressure source to test the sensor. I've also heard of giving them a shot in the internals with WD40.

Where you are at, i'd probably run to the mechanical system. You will have so fewer headaches with it.

[Barry Nave]

I remember testing your chip John. It was better then the Banks. Boost was good also and did not need the indash boost control. The shift was the same as it is using Trans. Interceptor.
If it were not for already having the boost control,(the one I made) and interceptor I would of keep your chip. I bought your boost control to compair to the home made one.
Any way I see where Ronniejoe has both boost and chip. Your boost control works well with the Banks chip as does mine. Banks Max was 10psi and wanted more with my water. BTW that(water) also does,has been working very well. Been a long time sence we talked about water,Bill has a good set up. Why did't I think of going to the market :rolleyes: It's covered :D
Any way,again.Any chance a chip could loose the boost?

[Barry Nave]

Changed out chip,back to the stock one. Elect. boost still not working. Mech. boost is getting close as I'm about to put a closer on this also.
I belive it was Shuck that also had this issue and wrote about it though have not heard from him if his was ever sloved.

[DA BIG ONE]

I am using the heath setup, I can crank it to where the spring is fully compressed and get 20 lbs before, and 17 lbs after intercooler.

I run hi pop injectors w/heath's latest program.

However, my under the bumper and between the frame rails IC may not be up to the task at these boost pressures, so, mounting before and after IC a dual temp gauage to see if I need high pressure water injection too, something tells me "yes" I will need it.

I mostly operate in the sub tropics, and desert SW so keeping my cool is a must......

I now stay 14 lbs an below until such time as I know just what this IC is really doing at higher pressure.

[rjschoolcraft]

Which intercooler are you using?

My Kennedy intercooler worked fine at 19 psi. Kennedy ran his truck with one at over 25 psi...kept IAT in check just fine.

[Turbine Doc]

Once you go with a reflash/chip if you get the right one; neither a mechanical TM nor a electronic fooler is required, the factory program is what was clipping boost, reflashed PCMs will allow boost to come to full potential.

I run a Heath reflash, JK IC and have my vac direct plumbed to the WG real or imagined I think the boost comes up faster that way, the main advantage of a mechanical boost control is it's an inexpensive replacement for the vac system when/if it goes bad.

I carry a JK fooler with me but it did get a dirty wiper on the pot and it left me without boost, I had a TM with me and used it to get me home. I cycled the pot end to end which knocked off the corrosion internally off of the pot's wiper. It functions again but I'm currently not using it.

Prior to running the reflash I ran a F PCM in place of my stock S PCM, I had IC before my reflash as no vendor at that time had a reflash offering that gave much improvement over stock F program. At that time only offering was a Z Industries marketed by BD among others. I had to run JK fooler then to get high boost without code.

Note of caution with a fooler, when I did get my reflash I removed the fooler & started setting codes; problem was, I had a bad boost sensor that was indicating high electronically 35psi and with fooler on that problem was not apparent until the code forced me to see what PCM was seeing. The WG then controlled by the TM could not pull back from overboost by controlling th WG so PCM defueled until seeing "safe" boost at boost sensor.

Prior to reflashing with current offerings, a fooler such as JK offers is required to get higher boost without setting a code, Mechanical set up set too far without fooling will most probably set a code.

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by ronniejoe:
Which intercooler are you using?

My Kennedy intercooler worked fine at 19 psi. Kennedy ran his truck with one at over 25 psi...kept IAT in check just fine. B&D IC

[rjschoolcraft]

Sorry, I didn't decipher that from your signature.

TBO,

When did you start running straight off the vacuum pump?

[Turbine Doc]

RJ December 04 for straight to Vac, TM & reflash before that ran for 6 mos that way, April 04 is when I went final version of reflash ran both with TM and JK boost control together & separate did not seem to make any difference.

Jan 04 I started playing with Heath reflash took several tries to get it where I wanted it. During that trial period reflash PCM back at Heath, running stock F PCM is when JK boost control failed on me, I had the TM with me and ran that to get me home.