Alignment ???

[heartbeatcanada]

Is toe in how plumb(vertical) the tire sits, or is that camber, caster. Can't remember, always get the 2 mixed up. Why i ask is i had the truck in for warrranty 5000kms ago, and this week the steering seemed to be wonky. I just looked at my tires and the inside tread is pretty much bald on the inside tread. These tires were put on 6 months ago and were wearing fine.

When they had the truck they said in there report"relay rod excessive play 1/8,replace relay rod and check align. adjust toe". My guess is the specs they took for the toe were from a 2500 not an hd, or didn't align at all. Both front tires are pooched now. I had my wife drive at me(hopeing she wouldn't run me over) and the tops of the tires are leaning towards the center of the truck(looks like a ford when backing up, except a little worse).

Just wanted to get my facts straight as the truck is going back tomorrow, and want to know what i'm talking about, so they don't try to scam me. I can't wait for this fight, as i don't think it is gonna be an easy feat to get the tires replaced at there expense :eek: thanks for any info to add to my arsenale. ;)

[hoot]

Picture three lines intersecting the center of a disk, one vertical, one horizontal (left/right) and one facing for/aft.

Tilt the disk about the vertical axis would be toe.

Tilt around the for/aft axis = camber
Camber is what you see changing drastically when you watch a Ford truck with Twin Traction Beam independant suspension going down the road.

Tilt around horizontal axis (right/left) is caster.

Caster is where the top ball joint on an IFS GM is in relation to the bottom joint when looking at the side of the vehicle. Typically the upper joint is set back a little. This causes the front wheels to want to stay centered, like a caster on a cart. Lean a cart over and the cast wants to flop in one direstion.

Hope I didn't confuse you.

[ 07-20-2003, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: hoot ]

[heartbeatcanada]

So what your telling me is i have a negative camber, correct. Now when they changed the relay rod, would they be required to do a complete alignment? I am assuming yes. Gonna go have a look under there now and see if i can find anything. ;)

[heartbeatcanada]

Sorry but i don't know alot about this alignment stuff. I just jacked the front end up, and this is what i see. I can grab the tire(hands at 9 and 3 oclock)and i can move it about 1 inch each way, both tires will do this. I set the 1 side tire straight and go to the other side and it has a toe out of about 2-3 inches. Put that tire straight and the other side has the toe out the same 2-3 inches. Is this normal????

Also when i move the tire i can see the relay rod moving quite freely where it connects to the idler arm, and steering arm(i assume thats what it is). Also the jamb nut on one of the tie rod ends isn't even tight, its about 6 treads away from being tight. One more question, if i look at both tie rods the pass. side has only about an inch of tread showing, the driv. side has about 2 1/2 inches of thread showing with the loose jamb nut, should they not have closely the same amount of threads left, within reason??? Sorry for not knowing too much of this stuff, if it were made of wood then it would be a different story. :D

[HowieE]

You can not check a front end while the truck is jacked up. Lifting the truck changes the geometry to a point that negates anaccurate checking.
As for toe in it is hard to check without an alinement table. However you could tell if thing are at least going in the right direction by stopping the truck on level ground and placing 2 straight items, light 8 ft. florscant light bulbs, horizontally along the tires so they extend forward. Now measure the distance between the lamps close to the truck and at the forward end of the lamps. The forward measurement should be less if the truck has any toe in. This method will require a few friends to man the lamps but you will at least know if you are in the ball park. Sounds odd that one would have to resort to this but I have seen alinement shop personnel who did know there was a differance between + and - when alineing a car.

[Diesel Dragon]

Heartbeat,

Your tires should not have 2 to 3 inches of toe out. Usually toe is set on the negative side (toe in) and even that is only 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch. If you have 2-3 inches you have problems. Also the tie rod adjuster should be tight. If one clamp is loose then the other half of the clamp is probably a little loose too. You have to loosen both to turn the adjuster. Or yours could be so loose that the tie rod end is just pulling out of the threads. NOT GOOD.
You could easily pull the end out all together and loose steering. Be carefull driving to the garage. Obviously the mechanic didnt tighten the adjuster when he set the toe and its worked itself loose. I would take pictures of it before you bring it in and they try to give you a BS story that it's your fault.

About your questions on camber and toe

Camber is looking at the tires from the front of the truck. Leaning in = Negative camber, Leaning out = Postive camber.
Caster is looking at the tire from the side of the truck. Make a imaganery line through the ball joints and leaning back is postive caster, leaning forward is negative caster.
Toe is looking down at the tire from above the hood. Both tires pointed towards each other is toe in, and the tires pointed out away from each other is toe out. It's also important that the tires are evenly turned in or out from an imagenry center line. Which I would imagine your truck is not doing. Set your steering wheel straight and get out and look at which tire is looking bad. Probably the one with the loose adjuster.

Camber and toe are your big tire wearing problems. They actually change as the suspension goes up and down so the factory specs are a happy meduim.

Caster is usually built into the truck or car and theres not much you can adjust. But some you can.

Well good luck at the garage and tell them what you saw so they dont try to give you another story after its fixed. And have them buy you 2 new tires too.

It's there fault not yours.


Bye for now Diesel Dragon :cool: