Idler and Pittman Arm - OUT.

[Alli-max]

What the h&ll causes THIS?!?! Sucks. How much sould I expect to pay, or is this something I can easily do myself. I hit all the zerks on oil changes, not too much of course. I DO NOT do any BAHA drivin offroad either. Mo money, mo money, MO MONEY!! :mad: :mad:

[SoMnDMAX]

The idler arm is relatively easy to change. There's just three or four bolts holding it to the frame, and the tapered stud holding it to the center link.

The pitman arm is another story. It's easy if you've got a pitman arm puller, but without one, you won't be able to remove the arm from the tapered splined shaft on the steering box. Pitman arm pullers are about $60.

Cost? I would almost be willing to bet the aftermarket may not have parts yet. GM may be the only source. If you have a NAPA nearby, check into their "Fleet Tough" line. The Fleet Tough parts are first rate.

First it's fuel mileage, now it's front end parts..... That 3 ton bumper is getting you again!!! tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif ;)

[ 07-25-2002: Message edited by: SoMnDMAX ]</p>

[CSDMAX]

Alli-max,

Even though you weren't in the BAJA 500, if you quit driving it like you borrowed it wouldn't be so much Mo money..Mo money!! :D Just kidding. Seriously though, I hope you can get it fixed without it costing an arm or leg. Keep us posted.

Rgds,

[SoCalDMAX]

Hmmmm...

I wonder how long the bearings last on a drawbridge? ;)

Kragen and Pep Boys will lend you tools like pullers, etc. Don't know who carries the Fleet Tough line, I'm gonna check into that.

I gotta admit, some of the steering parts on these trucks don't look very beefy, especially the tie rod ends. I may replace those, then get a lifetime alignment.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Regards, Steve

[SoMnDMAX]

Fleet Tough parts are made by Dana, and sold thru NAPA stores. They offer a limited lifetime warranty, which they will stand behind.

Just to get some indication of cost, I looked up parts for a 2000 2500 HD 4x4, old body style. The pitman arm is $47.49, the bearing assy for the idler arm is $59.99, and the idler arm itself is $73.49. Keep in mind, this is only an assumption that the part costs would be similar between the two trucks.

In addition, it doesn't look like a fun job to replace them. The steering box will most likely need to be removed to replace the pitman arm. Everything is quite tight in there...

[ 07-25-2002: Message edited by: SoMnDMAX ]</p>

[Alli-max]

Steering Box DOES have to be removed.

And, already called NAPA, and no parts listed. Along with 3 other auto stores.

Anybody have a part number lookup on the web? I am thinking the P.Arm is 12479051, and the I Arm is 12471383. The local Discount Tire wanted $271 total for all parts, and I told him I would bring MY parts, he said okay. Labor will be just under $150. Parts at all the websites are ~$130 total.

And SoCal... the only 'Parts Pulling' I will be doing is on that bucket of rusty bolts you are drivin' ;)

The guy at the shop said our arms look VERY close, if not the same, to the HALF TON 2WD trucks!! :mad: :mad:

Ordering this afternoon from http://www.sdpc2000.com/

[Diesel Dog]

A buddy of mine just had to have his 2001 idler arm replaced. He went in for state inspection and they failed him. In fact they said he's taking his life in his hands driving it much more. He drives strictly highway miles with his d-max, and he babies the thing. $300 and change later it's fixed. The guy at the inspection station told him that he has seen this a lot in GM's since they went with less grease fittings. I'd be supper ****ed if I had a 2 1/2 year old truck used as a highway commuter with 50K come up with such a problem, I know he is..
Anyone else experience this problem?

[77TransAm]

Alli-max, I found the same part numbers:

12471383 - arm kit, idler 1999-2004 CK1(43),2,3 (Dealer - $92.70, Trade - $121.97, List $162.63)
12479051 - arm kit, pittman 2001-2004 CK2,3 (Dealer - $63.31, Trade - $83.30, List $111.07)

We did have one truck that we really beat on hard, and I ended up replacing it all at once - pittman arm, idler arm center link, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. IIRC, I was able to get the pittman arm off with the steering box still in the truck (just removed the mounting bolts so I could maneuver it for more room). That job is enough of a pain that it might be worth the $150 just to have it done, though.

[Kennedy]

GM had the front end NAILED when they put that huge double bushing/bearing idler arm on my '96! That truck has 140+ on it, and I greased every other oil change at most.

The idler arm seems to be shot at 50k on my 2002, and likely the pitman arm too. I'm sure 4x4 launches contributed somewhat, but it's not like I do it on a daily basis.


If anybody has a connection with Moog, I'd be interested to know if they have any "Problem Solver" beefed up parts for this application...

[BassinRVer]

FabTech was going to make idler arms and I think pitman arm for our trucks.

[roger350]

I just checked on the Federal-Mogul site, and searched for steering parts for the HD's. I turned up some MOOG part numbers as follows: Pittman Arm = K6654, Idler Arm (Enhanced Design) = K6535, Inner Tie Rod = ES3488, Outer Tie Rod (Enhanced Design) = ES3493T.

I tried listing the 2500HD with both the 6.0 and the Duramax, the part numbers all showed the same. I am somewhat skeptical about these listings because they are the same as listed for the 1500's too? But it may be worth checking out. I know I'm in for it next time I try to get an alignment. Hope someone has something better than the GM parts by then.

https://mfr.ccitriad.com/mfrcat/extsrv?command=vehicleExt&extusr=FMOGuest&extsupplier=FederalMogulFull

[madmax7]

I had my pitman and idler arm go out at 37K miles. I was able to get Chevy to pay for it, but they had to put on the orginal crappy part.

I was told the moog part is beefier, but since this was getting paid by someone else, I stuck with the OEM.

I also notice that over time the wheels tend to lean in on top (I apologize for layman's terms). Is there something perhaps cheezy about the alignment too?

I am not rough on this truck and have mostly highway miles. Oddly enough, I have had to replace both wheel bearings too.

Any thoughts on this? Thanks for the help!

[JustWondering]

Hello everyone,
What are the symptoms when the idler & pittman arm start to go out? Is this something that is found out when specifically inspecting for the steering gear or is this something that you feel as you drive?

[Kennedy]

Basically, just a loose front end.

I ordered the Moog idler, and plan to install soon.

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by roger350:
I just checked on the Federal-Mogul site, and searched for steering parts for the HD's. I turned up some MOOG part numbers as follows: Pittman Arm = K6654, Idler Arm (Enhanced Design) = K6535, Inner Tie Rod = ES3488, Outer Tie Rod (Enhanced Design) = ES3493T.

I tried listing the 2500HD with both the 6.0 and the Duramax, the part numbers all showed the same. I am somewhat skeptical about these listings because they are the same as listed for the 1500's too? But it may be worth checking out. I know I'm in for it next time I try to get an alignment. Hope someone has something better than the GM parts by then.

https://mfr.ccitriad.com/mfrcat/extsrv?command=vehicleExt&extusr=FMOGuest&extsupplier=FederalMogulFull The K6535 that I received today is actually the Pitman arm in a box labeled idler arm. Looks like the book calls the K6535 a pitman arm, and the computer says it's the idler.

Computer listing is thought to be wrong...

[roger350]

Sorry if I lead you to buy the wrong part. I only had the computer listings available. Let us know if these are in fact the correct parts for our trucks, and if either or both look any beefier than the OEM parts. Thanks. And sorry again for the mix up.

[Kennedy]

Looking at what I have, looks like the moving part of an idler arm. Ball joint on 1 end, and tapered seat on other. Sounds like the frame mounted jointis not included.


Basically, it appears (my parts guys came up with the wrong number theory) that the number is right, but there's more to the idler arm than what is included in the kit from Moog...

I'll know more when I get it up in the air and pull down the splash shield.

[Professor]

John,

I looked it up in a online catalog the other day when you posted the part number and thought you had a pitman arm instead of a idler arm.

I came up with the smae numbers as Roger350.

Idler arm was showing to ba an improved design w/o frame bracket.

Does your new part have splines on the pitman shaft end?

Also I did notice that the outer tie rod shows "enhanced design". It would be interesting to see what has been enhanced.

oriellyauto.com has a decent on-line catalog

[George Gozelski]

I have an 02 Dmax with only 23,000 "non pounding" miles on it and had my pitman replaced too! While there, had my brakes all done as well as they were shot. I called GM and bitched, they actually paid for the brake job and the pitman arm was covered under warranty.

Prior to that it was a bad injector cup seal then it was some module on the tranny!

If this thing keeps "nickel and diming" me, I'm going to switch back to Dodge before the warranty runs out

[Kennedy]

Looks like I have the non stationary part of the idler arm.

Not used to seeing 2pc idlers. Looks just like the pitman only no spines, as it has tapered seat.

[ryeguy]

70k miles...brakes are still 75%+ good, stock steering seems good too, but sounds like I can expect to replace them soon.

JK, have you still got headlight harnesses for '02's? Do they work on Cdn trucks with daylight running lamps?

--Rob

[Mark Heiken]

Madmax7. I had mine aligned at about 40k. The alignment consisted of cranking up the torsion bars to bring the front back up to spec height and setting the tow in. When that was done all was well.

[Lone Eagle]

I am really surprised at all the talk about worn pitman arms. I was a front end tech for over five years. The pitman arm is absolutely the strongest part in the steering linkage system. Have the tech show you what is worn before you fork out your hard earned green. I have a 4X4 and unless there is some kind of of offset puller I haven't seen, you can't get the pitman off without at least removing the box bolts to tilt it. Later! Frank

[Cliffee]

I just recently visited a dealer for the "steering clunk" issue. I spoke to a front end tech who's been doing this for 14 years! He is considered to be the best in the AZ valley. He straight out told me to expect to have the Pitman replaced every 35-40k mi's. He also said GM has under engineered the front ends and he is very sad to see such poor quality. Adding larger tires also stresses front end components as well according to him.
Can you imagine how I feel after plunking down 45k for this?
It seems like every time I turn around the GM's poor quality keeps hitting me in the face. It's always something.

[ 02-12-2004, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Cliffee ]

[chrisinkanata]

Ryeguy...

The JK headlight harness works perfectly in the Canadian trucks. Only issue I have is getting bulbs to last more than 6 mos or so.

Chris

[c5dura]

I have had a loose front end since having my steering box replaced at 13k (got 23k on it now.) The symptoms are lots of play in the steering wheel, and really bad vibrations on rough roads going downhill making left turns, especially if hitting the brakes at the same time. That will get the whole truck shaking some kind of bad, even after I let off the brake again.

Finally took it to the dealer and they told me the pittman arm was shot, so they are replacing it under warranty.

Question; when they replace the pittman arm, will they also replace that bearing in the gearbox that I hear causes the same symptoms that I describe above?

My understanding is that the OEM replacement gear boxes are inferior to what comes from the factory and need the bearing kit installed to take out the slop.

I just don't want to have a situation where something else is going to come back to haunt me after the warranty period is over with regards to the front end.

Also, I wonder if the fact that I raised the front end could have a negative effect on the life of the font end components.

[Cliffee]

The gear box replacement was the cause of serious play in my truck. What finally fixed it was my dealer taking a Gearbox from a Brand New truck on his lot and using it in mine. I would bet you're play is the Gearbox. Mine was really bad.

[c5dura]

Cliffee, I think you're right on the money. Got the truck back Friday and the new pitman arm didn't make much of a difference at all (if any).

I printed out a couple of pages from here and gave it to the service manager this morning. I pretty much told them they need to install that bearing kit or pull a gear box out of a new truck on the lot.

I gave them a day to think things over and told them I expect a decision by tomorrow. From the look on his face, I don't think he liked the 2nd option at all.

At least they don't seem to have caught on to the fact that I'm running those 4hill leveling cams, so I hope they won't come back and use that as an excuse.

[Inspector]

Just got back from the annual RV show here is Salt Lake City. I ran across a vendor there was who had a display of SuperSteer products such as sway bars and stabilizers. He also had bellcranks for the P30,P32,G30HD and G3500HD chassis. He told me that the OEM bellcranks from the factory would somtimes be great for thousands of miles and others won't make it out of town. Just depends on if they were made on Friday or not. Anyhow checkout these bellcranks as they have sealed timkin bearings top and bottom. Should outlast the truck. They will be available later this spring for our trucks he told me.
The Web site is supersteersuperstop.com
Denny

[Lone Eagle]

Don't have bellcranks on my truck. Later! Frank :D

[Inspector]

Yes you do. Its a nomenclature thing. Its the gizmo that is bolted thru the frame the idler arm is secured to.
Denny

[morg1]

Just wanted to let you all know that you are all imagining this whole problem. I was just told this morning, by local dealer service manager, that there are no tie rod, or steering rattle problems. Seems he has C.R.S disease also, cause he doesn't recall looking at my tie rod end before the warranty was up. Where do I go from here? Has GM actually recognized the problem? I have read all the posts that i can and am still confused.