Traction / Winter Tires for 3500

[Diesel Dad]

I'm looking to add some traction to my 3500 4X4 with the approach of the Alberta winter. I currently have Michelin XPS Ribs.

Winters here tend to be cold, somewhat dry in recent years and with periodic snow and ice.

I have a few questions:
1). Can I keep XPS Ribs on the front and put traction tires on the back only (two tire dealers say yes and one says no) ?

2). I would like tires that can be used in snow or mud. Pickings are slim in LT215 85R16 10 Ply. Some of the choices are:
Bridgestone Blizzak W965 - seem like winter only
Cooper Discoverer Winter M&S
Nokian Haakepalita LT
Toyo Open Country A/T

3). Can I consider 8 Ply ? Looks like the weight rating (2365/tire) is enough for my actual loaded weight, esp. in the back. That opens up:
Uniroyal Laredo HD/T Nailguard - look very nice
BF Goodrich Commercial Traction TA

Thoughts ?

Thanks, Todd

[NutNbutGMC]

^...Tires and traction??? Hmmmmm !!! Try a few sand bags over the rear axle. I throw in 640 lbs. Does me fine.

[Stage 1]

Diesel Dad,

I am planning to put Michelin XPS Traction on the rear wheels of new 3500 soon are I receive it. Have you considered them? Existing Michelin XPS ribs will be used on the front wheels. They both are the same diameter and have E load rating.

[mackin]

DD

Running the rib up front as said above is a OK !!!!!! If an 8ply fits load range spec you need why not......
I'll be switching from my ribs too stock rims????I need 6 traction 4x4..... How are them Michelin ribs holding up??? I really like mine best tire I've owned.......

MAC

[ 10-09-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[TLA]

I run Michelin M&S on all corners. Load range E. Wear well, no tread seps.

[letsgo]

#1 I wouldnt mix tires , Keep all the tires with the same tread pattern so that traction is a constant at all 4 wheels(found that out the hard way).

#2 dont use blizzak, the compound is so soft the tires become squirmy, road handelling over 50 mph is bad. soft tread will tear off(been there done that).
Haakapelita 4 winter tires were excellent especially deap snow and ice.

#3 loading is your call.

with my previous truck I never had the need for extra weight in the back I set the air pressure so that the front and rear tires had an 8.5" footprint making rain and snow traction good and no slide outs.

good luck

[ 10-10-2002: Message edited by: letsgo ]</p>

[mackin]

letsgo

Are them tires thatgood?????
=&gt;http://www.nokiantyres.com/ Those up in the North Country swear by them.....My father, a northern VT guy, just bought a set for his Subaru..Says everyone runs them .....I never seen them down here....

MAC

[Diesel Dad]

Here are a few responses:
1). The XPS Ribs are great summer tires. They are smooth on the highway, seem to wear well and are excellent in the rain. Not good off the pavement though.

2). I did have Blizzak W965s on my 2500HD last year. They are fine on wet or dry pavement. Quiet. Good traction on snow and ice (although we had very little snow last winter). Can't comment on wear.

3). Now I'm really confused about ribs on the front and traction on the back. Michelin suggests it on their web site. Ford sells factory F450 and F550 with rib on the front and traction on the rear. What's the downside ? Loss of control ?

4). Michelin XPS Traction are said to be good in mud and snow but bad on ice due to hard compound. Anyone with XPS Tractions that could comment ?

Cheers, Todd

[Kennedy]

Blizzaks rule! I've also found no negative effects when towing. Not sure if you can get away with 238/85's though.

NO Michelin rubber will do well in winter. Great tires, long wearing, but no bite. I have 265 LTX MS on my Dmax now in hopes that they do well on the dyno rollers, but will hand them off to my '96 for winter and put the Blizzaks on. When a snow storm hits, I go DRIVING! :D

[letsgo]

mackin
In Finland for 6 months of the year the roads are covered with either ice or snow and these tires were designed for that type of driving.
They are also hard to find in the Toronto area(I guess demand is greater than import).
Like I said the traction is exellent in 2" to 6" deap snow, tires will track in a straight line.

[ALLIMAX]

Michelin XPS rib and Xps traction tires use a anti-chipping rubber compound in the tread. This makes them great for people who travel on gravel roads alot. IT does tend to make them slick however on the ice and snow since this type of rubber does not have the compounding to keep the rubber soft when the temps get cold. If you do have this tire I would recommend getting them siped for better winter traction. I have been running Bf Goodrich commercial traction TA during the winter months. It has proven to be the best winter tire I have ever used. I have one pickup that I leave them on year round and they are giving good tread life.I love Blizzaks on my cars for the winter.

[chevmeister]

I just ordered Cooper Discoverer s/t's Along with some Ultra's (sorry mac had to copy, alcoas sleeping). The tire has awesome tread and the guy who owns the tire shop after bout 20 mins of searching pulled these out. He has been running them for 2 years.
http://www.coopertires.com/tire_cooper/images/tires/large/discovererST.jpg
They make them to fit the 215/85-16 and they are LR E 10 ply.

[ 10-11-2002: Message edited by: chevmeister ]</p>

[Steve Joneli]

Todd, I just put a set of TOYO "Open Countrys" on my truck. They are real smooth and quiet on the freeway. Havent tried them in snow yet.

[Diesel Dad]

I have come across a couple of other possible tires:
1). Cooper Discoverer A/T
2). Bridgestone M773 SWP II

Both are A/T tires with some siping. The dealers have said they perform well on snow and ice.

Consumer Reports tested the Cooper and said that it was good on snow but that dry braking was poor.

Anyone have either on of these ? Any opinions ?

Thanks, Todd

[NickLeinonen]

letsgo:

the place where i get nokian tires is steelcase wheel and tire. they are in markham just north of the hwy 404/steeles exit [on steelcase rd]. duff tire in newmarket on leslie st just north of mulock on the east side also sells them, but i like dealing with steelcase more [closer, good service..]


the nokian winter lt's look like a great tire [i have the 10lt's under my pops silverado] but i saw those bfg commecrial traction t/a's last week under a dodge. those look like a really good agressive tire too..

[chevmeister]

Diesel dad
Dunno bout the A/t butthe s/t are quiet, really agressive and stop well on dry pavement. Havent had snow yet, but mud is no prob.

[letsgo]

NickLeinonen
Much appreciated.

[BobNelson]

I seems that each of us has a preference for a particular brand. Don?t want to go there.

I live in the dry side of Oregon. Warm summers, frozen winters. Lots of ice and dry snow, but I travel to the wet side often. I needed some versatility.

One consideration is siping. I had my original set siped from day one. Will get about 35k out of them. Siping is ok, if you don't spend a lot of your time on gravel.

Overall, I was very please the having them siped. Ran a lot cooler in the summer. Great traction in the winter ice. Super traction on the wet pavement.

The manager of the local tire dealer has his tires siped each new set.

Saw a tire a few weeks ago that was siped, stock. The owner has about 25k on the now and looks like they are wearing real well. He drives the same conditions that I do.

Just food for the conversation.

[mackey_62]

Anyone, have any expeience with Dunlop Radial Rover R/T?
Pretty decent looking tread, kind of resemble some good old-fashioned snows.
Notice they're not carried by all tire dealers online, but tirerack does, $90 whsl 235/85 E.
$83 whsl 215/85 think they're D in 215 though.

[Diesel Dad]

Talked to a number of tire company people yesterday. Here is what I found out:

1). Nokian - only tire available in LT215 85R16 is LT which is a soft snow tire.

2). Bridgestone - W965 ditto, soft snow tire, cannot be run in warm weather (i.e., to tow my trailer to sunbelt in January). Recommended M773 as a commercial tire with good traction. Said that emergency vehicles in Toronto are common users of M773 with good traction and durability.

3). BF Goodrich - Costco said that they can get Commercial T/A Traction in 10 ply for $139 CDN. I said name that tune. Should arrive Friday.

I am skeptical through since Michelin Canada said that the tire does not come in 10 ply. Decided to go with 6 tires. Commercial T/A Traction looks like a good compromise. More aggressive design. RMA snowflake designation. Hopefully not too soft.

With any luck this saga will be over on Saturday. Thanks to all for the help !

[IndigoDually]

Mt Goodyear AT/S from the factory work very well in the snow but they suck in the mud. I found this out the hard way last weekend, I had to get rescued by a John Deere ( at least it wasn't a Ford). I don't think 10k of trailer behind the truck helped either.

John

[Diverguy]

Diesel Dad;
In your first post you did not mention that you were dragging the trailer down to the sunbelt. I've used Nokians for the past three winters. Great tires. How have the winters in Edmonchuk been recently? I lived there between '84 to '91 and I seem to remember some pretty chilly winters (1 week in Jan or Feb below -30 C)? Unless you take you XPS's with you and change them once out of the snow when you head south you're not going to find a good winter tire that isn't soft.
Letsgo;
Kal Tire is the major retailer of Nokians and they are pretty common in B.C.

[Diesel Dad]

Diverguy: I've lived in Edmonton since 2000. Winters have been mild and very dry. Too bad -- really ruins the skiing. We still get the odd snow storm and some freezing rain but the roads have been bare and dry for much of the last two winters. That's why I'm hesitating on soft snow tires.

Cheers.

[Diesel Dad]

Well, it was too good to be true. Went to Costco to pick up my BFG Commercial T/A Traction and guess what -- they were Commercial T/A All Season. Argh !!!

So back to the drawing board. Costco has Michelin LTX M/S (M&S designation but no severe snow rating) in my size -- any comments on how they work on snow or ice ?

They can also get Bridgestone M773 SWP II and a few models of Bridgestone 6xx tires that I did not recognize.

On we go ...

[MartyB]

I have Cooper AT's on my truck, use all year, no problems in snow, even pulling a Travel trailer. I'm going to get about 60K+ miles out of them.
The Cooper M+S, is well like by a few friends of mine that have them. I'll be getting a set of these when my CTD's wear out for winter use.
I also have a set of Bridgstone winter duellers (same rubber compound a s a blizzack, but more aggresive tread) on a GM Safari van, and they are doing well.
I also have a set of Michelin XDE M+S (lug traction) on the rear, rib style on the front, of a Navistar with 225-70-19.5's. I have to admit no use in snow, hopefully never, as I usually park this puppy when it snows, especially since it has a detroit locker in the rear, but mud traction is great!
Siping seems to be the trick for snow, especially if it is compacted, but lugs are needed when it's slushy or loose and deep.

[ 10-31-2002: Message edited by: MartyB ]</p>

[Diesel Dad]

Ordered a set of Cooper Discoverer A/T yesterday. Hope to get installed on Thursday. Hopefully these skins will actually show up. The Consumer Reports test said that the Discoverer A/T did better in snow and ice than the LTX M/S -- hope it's correct.

Stay tuned. We have freezing rain in the forecast this morning, so my XPS Ribs are staying parked for now. Just put Nokian NRW "All Weather" tires on my Camry, so they'll get a good test today.

[Diesel Dad]

Thankfully the Cooper Discoverer A/T did materialize. They seem to have the right type of tread pattern with lots of siping and blocks. The dealer said they sell a lot of them to the oil patch.

We have fresh snow again this morning, so I'll post again when I see whether they really work.

Thanks for all the comments.

[ksss]

I have had good luck with Kelly MSR's in 235-85-16 in mud and snow. The tread is open and is between a allseason type and a mud tire. The traction is great. The rear locker probably helps. The only problem is the pickup is always strapped to a 31' tandem gooseneck trailer loaded plenty heavy. The tires wear fast (I think) I have 25K on the tires and there half gone. There doesn't seem to be good compromise between traction (year round) and wear especially when towing. I keep telling myself that its better to replace the tires more often then end up stuck or facing the wrong way on the highway, but it sure hurts buying 6 tires every 18 months.

[Diesel Dad]

I've driven the Cooper Discoverer A/T for a week now in a variety of ugly conditions (snow, ice, freezing rain, slush) and am very satisfied with the traction. They also seem quiet on the highway. As for durability, only time will tell.

I had about 600 lbs. in the box (6 XPS Ribs and a Reese Hitch).

I really wish that GM had used LT235/85R16 like the rest of the world. We'd have at least twice as many tires to choose from.

I feel sorry for owner of the new D*d*e trucks. They use 17, 18 and 20 inch rims with some very funny tire sizes. I'm sure it will be a real PITA no matter how "cool" it looks.

[ 11-15-2002: Message edited by: Diesel Dad ]</p>

[bryantch]

Personally i have tried cooper discoveries (got stuck to much), off brands (when i was poor), BFG AT's for the last several years and this last truck i bought Wrangler MTR's. The bfgs are great tires, last a long time, get around well in the mud and snow and are generally quiet.

However, after buying a set of wrangler mtr's, i wont be buying anymore bfg's for a while. these tires are noisy but i cant hear them over the exhaust anyhow. they get me into places in 2 wheel drive that my ford with bfg's needs 4 wheel. although i had to remove them due to warranty issues on the ally (265's being blamed for the probs by the dealer), now that the snow is about to fly again here in northern mich, they are going on the ford and a new set will go on the '03 when it arrives in mid december.

if you need to get around anywhere and are more concerned with tire life (seems equal to bfg) than tire noise...get the wrangler mtr's.

my 2 cents...

[chevmeister]

Had our first snow on thurs and glad to report the Cooper S/T are great in snow.
8"+ and I towed arougn a 7500# trailer with no problems in snow that reached 1' in some places. The only time I had any problems was trying to back up a hill. Drove up it forward just fine.

[BROKERS]

We run GoodYear G-124 on all six positions for winter. We keep enough 19.5"rims around for straight change overs.For 16" applications ,Nokia are excellent,also if you can find Gislaved tires,they are even better.Hakkapiilitta LT :eek: is the top of the scandinavian winter tires.Rarely see them though.

[ 12-08-2002: Message edited by: BROKERS ]</p>

[thechevyhdman]

I have to second Bryantch on his opinion on the Goodyear MTR. Its an insane tire I was plowing last storm with a tiny bit of sand in back with 2WD. Our roll off trucks are subject to mud,snow, slop all year long. We run Goodyear G133 all around. If your a good boy to them you can get a tad over 28K on them but thats pushing it. With both previously mentioned tires MTR and G133 dont expect to get record mileage out of them, their not a mileage tire, their a traction tire. Id rather get 15K out of a tire and never get stuck, then 30K out of another tire and wait for an hr each time for someone to pull me out. I know alot of people seem be biased against Goodyear, but their isnt a tire that can carry weight quite like em. Ive had 6 tons on back(no lie) with G133 and 5 tons with Coopers on back, The difference was night and day. Esp later on down the road the Coopers began to lose strength in the metal cord and I swear didnt spin properly down the road. Its your decision but I know Ill never change tires or brands. Bill

[Diesel Dad]

According to the Goodyear web site, the Wrangler MT/R does not come in LT215/85R16. What size did you use ? Was it on a 3500 ?

The Goodyear web site also says that the G133 is discontinued.

Not easy finding tires for these 3500s.