View Full Version : Suncoast vs ATS
1071 miles to Suncoast $4800 and they swap trannys?
1178 miles to ATS $3850 for level 3 installed in my tranny
Which is better? What makes Suncoast almost $1000 better than ATS. I know the ATS transmission will take a beating, 12.6 - 1/4 mile, 4wd launches with locked front & rear diff @ 540+ RWHP (clint). Plus it will take the abuses of sled pulling (clint & blackjet). ATS had a few bugs that have been taken care of. I've talked to Clint in length on the phone and in person at Muncie about the Allison, dragracing, pulling, chassis mods, Duramax mods, Elocker, ect. I'm leaning toward the ATS trans but I don't want to rule out the Sucoast offering if it's really worth the extra grand.
big dipper
07-04-2003, 11:47
MT,
I have been kicking the same thing around. Sounds like Suncoast has a very nice product, but in your case, I think ATS would be better suited. If you have talked with Clint, you know the advantages of his kit. I think it is more suited in the style of driving that you do.
George
Michael, You use your truck for everyday use. I would suggest the SunCoast transmission. I have nothing against ATS but I think that SunCoast is a better way to go. Every trans is different, just like the builder. Why don't you poke around the TDR and TDStop and find the folks that have SunCoast in their trucks. You should find quite a few SunCoast parts (torque converters) and rebuilds. Do your best to find "any" bad parts,
big dipper
07-05-2003, 09:07
I am sure the way that you posted your response, they were meant towards my response so I will respond. :D
Michael, You use your truck for everyday use Yes, he does, but he also tows pretty heavy and he uses his truck for pulling. Clint has his module set up to shift quicker in a race mode which MT will benefit from while pulling. Clint also has a tow program in his module to allow firmer shifts to keep from loosing boost while towing. Did I forget to mention that when you are not over 8lbs. of boost, the tranny has totally stock charecteristics.
[quote] Do your best to find "any" bad parts,
Why not throw TransGo into the PIC ??
I do work for Sonnax Corp out of Bellows Falls Vermont ...... Big Transmission parts supplier,including High Performance applications ....It would appear the have a Allison Replacement Parts Catalog available may just have to give them a sales call ...... ;)
Mac :D :D :D
Big Dipper (George), My response was not in regards to your post. Michael asked a very specific question on two transmission upgrades. There was no mention of B&D or any other tranny in his quarry.
I guess you have narrowed in down between the 2 as you left out BD? I gave him my assessment of the "two" he asked about. Yes, I did harp on the Sun Coast because I believe it to be the better of the two.
KingD had placed a post about the B&D and did not get a good response. I thought it best to have competition in the Allison upgrade since Sun Coast seemed to be dominating the board. You cannot be No.1 without good competition. Sun Coast is on top and will get a premium price for being at the forefront.
--- Just wait a little while. We will soon be hearing about "upgrades" that are slipping torque converters, breaking ears, making heat and software that is breaking hardware. When it's all said and done my money will be on the Sun Coast.
Oh, BTW....... If I had spent more than 1,000 bucks on a trans and it still shifted like a stock at any setting, I would not be happy. And yes, I have an EDGE box. Arron also charges a premium for his boxes because they are the best, No.1. You can get a TST set-up with gauges, pyrometer and an "in-cab" controller for 100 bucks more than the Juice..........So why do people get the Juice and then buy a 200 to 400 dollar gauge package, spending 100 to 300 bucks more for the JUICE set-up? Edge has better R&D in their box. Sun Coast did the same with their transmission fix. :cool: There again, I was responding to MT's post... not yours. :rolleyes:
Burner-----> :D
Whew______ Is it hot in here or what !!!!!
Mac http://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb/hihi.gif http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif http://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb/hihi.gif
R&D is a long word people,if you all could see how much scrap metal i generate from Allisons,We have a long row to hoe! ;)
big dipper
07-05-2003, 20:25
Ok Burner, you did it again. Your whole response was targeted at everything I said and at the end you say, uh...it was to MT. So what part was to me?
Here's the deal, Suncoast is the best. Sdaver talks about it, he is the only one that has one, and he shares a lot of info., thanks Dave, so I will get that kit to. :rolleyes:
I guess the comment about the ears breaking off is refering to the BD tranny again. And the software that will be breaking hardware would clearly be about King D. If that is the case, you will be right once again, or maybe, just maybe, BD will decide to offer a converter and they will have covered all the bases as well. Since we all read the stuff that KD runs on his truck, I am sure it will be a good test for the product. Although KD is not the only one that has one. Do a little research besides just reading here.....
I talked to Joe before they even had any boxes on their truck. I told him what I had, and in a round about way, he said it was......well let's just say, he didn't care for it. I on the other hand am perfectly satisfied for the time being, I needed it, it was the only one available, SO I BOUGHT IT. Will I buy level 2, not to sure. Point here is, as good as the Suncoast kit may be for some, it might not be for others. Here's another one for you....the first time I talked to Joe, he told me he had a 235hp box coming from Bully Dog......when you ask what they are running now, he will tell you a reflash and a juice stacked. Give him a call and ask why they don't use the big VA, I am curious myself as I just thought of this while I was typing.
You talked for ahwile about the Juice and Aaron so here goes. I bought the Juice when it first came out, it was stronger than the VA, so I HAD TO HAVE IT. I didn't buy it because someone here said it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Oh, and by the way, I probably would have considered the TST had it been available. Seems they put out more power than the juice and they even come with GAUGES. :D
Call Aaron and he will tell you, the ATS shifts great for racing........
Look here, this is the reason I hardly post on here, someones panties always end up in a bunch.......just like being in high school, and not agreeing with the IN-CROWD.
Burner, if you want to talk more about this, e-mail me. I am not going to keep going back and forth on this board like this.
ice watter please it is toooooooooo HOT in here.no slips or broken tabbs yet,but i guess we will see what happpens.and yes if and when i slip my tranny i will let you know.this is off topic but i wont be posting on the suncoast tranny was asked not to,not by BD either.the sun tranny does work well and if anything goes wrong with mine sun will be my next choice. :cool:
Ive got the suncoast 2200 miles or so absolutely no regrets.......In regards to revisions on boxes its one thing to change your truck back to stock and send it in for an update........but when you trucks undriveable and its your daily form of transportation its alittle different.........Im not gonna knock the bd or the ats.....Never ridden in one.........however my suncoast has performed as advertised without a glitch since it was installed.........hey its a free country thank god...........make your own best choice and live with results........ :D dave
big dipper
07-06-2003, 08:33
Dave,
See I read your post and see a little "tang" in it so maybe it is just me....you know, free country and all.
I am glad you are happy with your choice. If I could have been the first and got a deal, I would have done so. (not implying you did) Suncoast sounds very promising and I am still considering it, but I am not as quick to drop 5k as some others. Problem here is I already have the stage 1 from ATS. Also, if it is your daily form of transportation, maybe you shouldn't take that kind of chance.....
Don't get these posts confused, I wasn't defending ANY company or knocking ANY either. My complaint here was his response. It seems I was not the only one that thought he was calling me out. So maybe a few of us got the wrong impression, and if so, who cares.
I guess this will turn into another media affair, and I will be Rodney King. OH WELL, BRING IT ON! ;)
I would say its my prefered daily form of transportation.......got 3 powerstrokes and several gassers....talk to joe tell him what you have..... work out a deal......or live with what you got.....several months ago If I lived closer to ats I would have been in the same boat with you.........I just could not stand the limp.... :D dave........tang? good with vodka
big dipper
07-06-2003, 10:14
Dave,
Got ya! ;)
Like I said, glad you are happy. Hope everything continues to go good, that way the rest of us know what to do.....
George
for what it's worth Banks Sidewinder and the Cummins Diesel Dragster both have ATS transmissions.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/attachment.php?s=6d1f76f1ac92**30729d0212ae70279e&postid=696552
The one thing that I will offer is that I am NOT an advocate of adding mods to a transmission that has altready been used/abused. It is far better to have a REAL expert overhaul it thoroughly to be certain all is well...
if the abused clutch packs are replaced what is there to worry about?
Originally posted by Micheal Tomac:
if the abused clutch packs are replaced what is there to worry about? IF they are ALL inspected/replaced all should be well, but remember, take NOTHING for granted, and if an issue should ever arise, who was the last one in there???
Lone Eagle
08-03-2003, 17:23
Where is ATS located? Later! Lone Eagle
I will be having the new Trans-Go installed in my new 03 in the next several weeks. I will report back after the install is complete.
WhiteDuramax
08-03-2003, 21:14
smoky, where can we find/get more info on the transgo kit, I havent heard much about it lately??thanks
Besides "I like Brand X, it works for me" does ANYbody have more SPECIFIC info about their trans compared to stock?
1) Does it hold ALL THE POWER, NO SLIP NO COMPLAINTS of your power boxes? Which power boxes/hp/Torque's?
2) Quartermile ET/MPH bests before/after the transmission change? If you all are spending $3500-5000 on a performance tranny surely SOME of you have some TRACK or DYNO numbers before/after! My understanding is that stock trans defueling plus power reduction when it detects TRANS SLIPPAGE costs ALOT of ET/MPH...so IF these trans REALLY hold better/shift better I'd expect at least .5 sec/3mph better JUST from trans change, and if REALLY holding probably MORE than that.
3) ANY problems/need for trans re-removal?
4) With Adjustable TST, what do the adjustments feel like to YOU/what do they DO?
5) If BOTH hold ALL the power of ALL the boxes then the $1000 cheaper one with incab adjustments seems BETTER. Any OBJECTIVE reason beyond "I trust X more" to NOT think this?
$5000 is a crapload of money and if one WERE to spend it and end up with slippage, or STILL have the crappy defueling-on-shifts that SLOWS the truck so much (vs. a crisp powered upshift) I would REALLY be UPSETTTTTTT!
Less ****ING CONTESTS with USELESS commentary like "I trust Suncoast so they're Better" or "I know BuddyBobJoe at ATS and He's Nice and Says It's Better" BS and more FACTS and "Here Is How My Truck NOW ACTS, There is NO SLIP EVER, the shifts are lazystock/betterNoDefuel/fast/HARDchirpTheTires, Here Is The Quartermile Improvement, Here is the Dyno Improvement, Here is what is Annoying" would help us who DON'T yet have upgrade but WANT HELP DECIDING on FACTS not PURE opinions.
Thanks to ALL for writing in! Just a plea for more FACTS/STATS/Shifting Experience and less "I just LIKE it" FEELINGS.
I will have some 1/4 mile numbers on Sunday. I've had the ATS level 3 in my truck for a couple days now.
Current pricing for Level 3 is $3590+ installation. The price of the kit has gone up since it first came out (the pricing I refered to earlier). In the end the ATS price is still a few hunderd dollars less after shipping, installation and core $ was credited vs. the Suncoast tranny at $4295
When it comes down to it the ATS controller and its ability really seperate the two more than price. Plus I didn't have to come up with a kings ransom to cover the $1200 core up front.
I ordered the C1 clutches since the L3 kit only comes with C2 & C3. My C1's were toast, C2's were not far behind and C3's were not much better than C2. My C4's & C5's still looked new. I think I finished off the C1,C2,C3 clutches playing with the comp boxes while I was waiting for the L3 kit to arrive.
With the controller turned on and turned up (most agressive setting) the Allison shifts like it has a racing shift kit in it, believe me the tranny does not slip, just the tires. I'm beating it with an Edge Comp & TST Comp (not stacked). Defueling between shifts is a thing of the past and so is the top speed limiter with the controller turned on on. With the controller turned off it shifts like stock.
I just might get an exhaust brake since the L3 kit is optimized real well for exhaust brake use.
I have a truck pull Friday night so I'll see how well the ATS purple converter puts the power to the ground in high range low gear running thru the converter with a 40000# sled in tow.
[ 08-08-2003, 12:35 AM: Message edited by: Micheal Tomac ]
Mike
I gotta ask, how does the rest of the drivetrain "feel" with the aggressive shifts ??? What kind of Clutches are they using ?? On their site the mention Upgrade Clutch Pack Kit/ Ring Gear Upgrade ??
The HP rating is unlimited,Guaranteed??
Sorry for all the questions .....
Mac http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shrug.gif
It's hard to say if the driveline will like these kind of shifts but they are necessary to keep the clutches from slipping when comp boxes are used. I only turn the controller on when I'm in the higher settings on the boxes over 120-125 and getting on it. Otherwise it's off and shifting stock. I wouldn't want the agressive shifts all the time, but for racing they are necessary.
The clutches are not the same as the ones that came out, but I'm not sure who makes them.
I think Suncoast's unlimited hp guarantee looks good on paper but I doubt it would withstand hp increases that will come in the future. Look what we're getting just from computer tuning. Add injectors and a bigger turbo/turbos, propane, nitrous and what ever else comes along then look out.
I know of at least one truck at 475 RWHP with computer tuning only and 4" from the turbo back. Clint's truck dynoed 540 awhile ago and he's done alot since then and it takes time to dial everything in. I think he's making more power now since he last dynoed. I think the hp/torque figures Suncoast gives are calculated unless they're hiding a 650hp/1300ft# Duramax somewhere.
ATS doesn't guarantee unlimited hp but I've seen what Clint's truck will do in the 1/4 mile and I'm pretty sure he's making more power than I ever will. The ATS has a 3 year warranty.
[ 08-08-2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Micheal Tomac ]
Good Info Mike thanks for the feed back .....
Calculations, more then likely but the ones who know can and will correct the weak spots .....
The biggest thing I see different with the ATS is more driver control .....
Dave has been down their,and I can't recall what he said they were running on their Duramax when he drove it.....
Scary,sorta,part to me is the electronics of the beast ..... Reliability .....
The Allison TCM,is it remain in stock form ?? Interfaced or replaced, or neither ??
You pulling and tracking may be looking for more power then I ...... I'm not at the point where I will be looking Turbo, Injectors any time soon .... Not ruling out but not for a while, by the time I'm ready tranny price drops will be apparent along with new technology ....
Mac
dmaxalliTech
08-09-2003, 10:22
Originally posted by mackin:
Scary,sorta,part to me is the electronics of the beast ..... Reliability .....
The Allison TCM,is it remain in stock form ?? Interfaced or replaced, or neither ??
Mac The only thing done to the TCM is splicing into ckt 400. IIRC its the VSS wire high input but I cant be sure on that. No mods made to TCM itself, just the wiring. You also tap in to the signal wire for the boost sensor and tap into the cluster for a tow/haul signal. I was apprehensive on the wiring bit when I put it in, especially soldering a wire on the cluster printed circuit board as per directions for T/H signal. all inall, it went very smooth. My only gripe on the wiring part is the size of the connector you had to get through the firewall that plugs into the controllor. I had to use a 3/4 unibit and then oblong the hole with diegrinder to get it through. sealed it up nice with some strip caulk, dont worry Mike!
Kennedy:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Micheal Tomac:
if the abused clutch packs are replaced what is there to worry about?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IF they are ALL inspected/replaced all should be well, but remember, take NOTHING for granted, and if an issue should ever arise, who was the last one in there???
ME :D :D :D
Texas Red Wagon
08-09-2003, 17:20
Micheal & Dave since both of you have the different converters do you notice them to be louder or have whine to them? Maybe a dumb question. I just heard one was a little louder than the other.
Thanks Scott
Mike,
Does it really shift like stock when turned off?
I've been waiting for the next phase of programming valve etc, but haven't seen it yet.
Originally posted by kennedy:
Mike,
Does it really shift like stock when turned off?
I've been waiting for the next phase of programming valve etc, but haven't seen it yet. Now I know you accomplished one thing before you left, went for a ride or drove Sdavers truck .....
You have, no comment ???
Mac
:confused:
Like BUTTA!!! I don't think I could have told you if it was there or not had I not known.
I was hoping to have the new controller for the Sturgis trip, but it did not happen :mad:
I'm hoping to get mine straightened out so I have a good feel for it before I transplant the Suncoast, but the temptation (it arrived Thursday) is getting to me!
So John you have the entire ATS drop in your were waiting for ??
That's what I like to hear about the Suncoast ,,,
But I'm a info gathering and not sleeping with anyone yet, sept my wifey of course ... Lets go JOE, I'm getting anxious ...
Mac ;)
GMC-2002-Dmax
08-09-2003, 19:43
Originally posted by kennedy:
Like BUTTA!!! I don't think I could have told you if it was there or not had I not known.
I was hoping to have the new controller for the Sturgis trip, but it did not happen :mad:
I'm hoping to get mine straightened out so I have a good feel for it before I transplant the Suncoast, but the temptation (it arrived Thursday) is getting to me! JK,
So you have 1/2 of the ATS kit in and the rest you installing soon??? :confused:
How long before the transplant, or are you waiting to see if the rejection drugs work first tongue.gif
Sdaver, shifting the same as stock without slippin or does it feel like a T400 with a shift kit???
I am curious as I was leaning towards ATS, but may be swayed by feedback from those that have a Suncoast.
Hurry up and get your Suncoast MAC!!!!!
GMC smile.gif
dmaxalliTech
08-09-2003, 19:45
Yes Mike, please tell..... Truck was still in fast learn last I drove it, its hard to tell what its gonna do once it settles down.
Hey, you know the darndest thing happened... a techs worst nightmare.... I had just finished fixin/overhaulin theis guys tranny in his big red truck and had to go out and roadtest it. I was not babying it but was being carefull at the same time.. lots of black smoke etc. Its a sick feeling to look in your rearvieww mirror at a light and see the owner of the truck waving at you :eek: :eek:
very slight firmer shift 1-2 light throttle noticeable lockup (light throttle) in 5...........no whine.......... :D dave
Jake99Z71
08-09-2003, 21:48
Kennedy
You haven't received the latest software yet?? ATS is making another change which should be finalized in a couple weeks. The latest software firms up the shifts a little with multilevel adjustability and makes the grade braking feature more aggressive. ATS still needs to fix the 2-3 up shift.
dmaxalliTech
I complained about the size of the connector and was told they were going to add a couple more pins.
The shifting is stock once you turn off the controller. Like M.Tomac said.
It's like having a shift kit you can turn on and off. The tranny is setup to hold big power without slipping. With the tranny controller turned on it shifts a little smoother with the the TST comp than the Juice Comp because it has a little more power. I think with a bigger box the shift kit feeling might almost be gone. I actually gain boost when it shifts with the controller turned on vs. losing boost in the shifts with it turned off. It gets to the next higher gear so fast it loads the motor which builds more boost. For dragracing that's what you want. Sloppy shifts don't lower ET's. It would be interesting what 1/4 mile times someone could get out of a Suncoast tranny. Is the ATS torque converter suppose to be louder than the Suncoast? I hadn't noticed any extra noise over the engine.
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