New to the board, and new diesel owner

[Tony J.]

I've been enjoying reading this site for a couple of days now. I've done some searches, and gotten a lot of information. As I said above, I am new to the world of diesel ownership. I have a couple of questions I'd like to pose to those of you with more experience than I- probably everyone!
My truck is a '95 K3500 Crew w/AT, 139,000 mi. I'm trying to figure out a few things here. I'm looking for feedback from anyone that's put a Banks Stinger system on their truck. That and a high-flow water pump (I live and drive in AZ) are the two main mods I'm considering. I'm really not going to be in a position to start stacking $1,000 mods on this truck, but would like to figure out what fairly-inexpensive mods will do me the most good. I drive mostly in town, and only tow a 8,500 lb toyhauler about 2,000 mi/year. As I said, I'd like to get the most noticeable improvements for the least $$$. I'd also like to stick with items that a somewhat "competent" shadetree mechanic could install. I'm dreaming, right? :D

Anything that will improve cooling and/or increase performance and economy is what I'm mainly interested in.

Thanks in advance for your input!
Tony

[rjschoolcraft]

There are better systems available than the Banks Stinger for the 6.5. I have the Banks exhaust on my Suburban, although it is only 3" where the truck is 4". I would like to have bigger.

The late model cooling mods are something you should invest in. However, you should also spring for the Kennedy fan clutch. I did the high flow pump and dual t-stat cross over first and still had overheating problems last summer when towing across the Mojave Desert and in the mountains west of Denver and later east of Salt Lake City. The fan clutch catches the coolant temp before things can get out of control by engaging at about 15 degrees cooler than the stock one.

I have posted info on my towing performance in this thread (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=005059&p=2#000057), so have a look. Good luck.

[LA]

Tony,
Do you mind sharing what you paid for your rig? I'm looking at a friends '94 3500 crew cab, 2wh drive, auto, 6.5TD,longbed with 120,000. We can't find any "comparisons" to establish a fair price.

Thanks,

Lance

[Marty Lau]

Tony;
Your truck should pull your toy hauler well.
Exhaust first, Bill Heath claims that in most cases that just a new Hayden Servere Duty fan clutch will do the job to keep you cool. Most folks who end up doing the "cooling upgrades" end up doing the the whole boat, water pump, dual thermostats, and then add Fan Clutch. Bill says do the clutch and if you need more then do the Water pump. The fan clutch is easy to swap for a "shade tree" wrench turner. Also good time to take out the radiator clean the coolers up and have the raditor serviced at a good raditor shop.
Good luck.

[Craig M]

Hi 16ga SxS;

I am debating with myself on the cooling upgrades. Have a 95 engine. Think I will upgrade to the dual thermostate and higher capacity pump (cool is good). Unsure on the fan/fan clutch issue. See Kennedy selling a 21" Duramax fan and clutch ($200+ as I recall). From your post you seem to think the Hayden Severe Duty Fan Clutch (part number 2831 from their catalogue I think), with the original fan is an acceptable "upgrade" from original.

[rjschoolcraft]

I will repeat again...

The water pump and dual t-stats alone will not address the cooling problem. These changes address some hot spot issues in the heads and are really a necessary upgrade if you want to work your truck hard.

Knowing a few details about the actual makers of the fan clutches, I would go with Kennedy's (as I actually did). It works well and has solved my overheating problems. Some folks have tweaked the spring and have used new factory replacement clutches to solve the problem. However, my experience shows that the factory calibration on the clutch waits too long to start moving air and lets the coolant temp get out of control. Look at the data posted on Kennedy's web site (http://www.kennedydiesel.com/) for more information. I have not found any such data (nor do I believe that any exists) for the Heyden fan clutch. I couldn't justify their claims in my own mind without this type of data.

[Tony J.]

LA- Mine is a 4wd 1995 model (SRW, not dually), with 139K on it. It is in what I consider to be near-mint condition, especially after some of the other trucks I looked at. I ended up paying (from a private party) right at NADA LOW retail (or wholesale I believe). Mine has near-new BFG All-terrain T/A's, and needs nothing other than whatever performance upgrades I decide to do.

Ronnijoe- I like the list of mods you've got on your Burb, but think that's out of my grasp right now. I'm trying to find the two most effective (and cost-effective) mods I can do- first for the cooling system, and second for a performance boost. Since I spent almost $500 for the exhaust system on my gas Suburban a couple years ago, I'm liking the looks of $688 (less install) for a Banks Stinger system for this truck. Seems like a pretty good buy to me.

Have any of you guys installed the Stinger yourselves? Any welding required?

Thanks again for the gouge, guys!

Also, a few more questions. I'd like to figure out my axle ratio. Does the axle code on the door give that? I turn about 2500 rpm at about 65 mph running 265/75R16 BFG's. I'm hoping it's a 4.10 and not 4.56...

Electrical question- I clipped and shortened the cable on the cd changer that was in the truck (and working) yesterday. All I did was cut and resplice the wires. No big deal, you say? Well, apparently I managed to screw it up. Now my CD changer has no power, and the display on my factory radio quit at the same time. Is there a fuse(s) somewhere I should know about? Like a moron, I did NOT disconnect the batteries before cutting the wires, but the connector from the wire harness to the CD changer WAS disconnected when I cut the wires. Any ideas?

[Marty Lau]

Tony;
This what I had planned. I was going to just change thermostat, hoses clean radiator and do the fan clutch. I found that once the fan engages temps come down. Bills (hayden)fan clutch engages at about 15 degree's lower than factory. I tryed getting the quick release out of the crossover and couldn't (melted crossover)
I then did the dual thermostats and high capcity water pump since I had to do the crossover anyway and also timing chain and gears. If the EOM crossover would have been intact I would have not done water pump and crossover. Bill Heath and he's been working on GM Diesels since the 80's says MOST people the fan clutch does the job as once the fan is engaged you get cool it's the OEM just kicks in to high a temp. Some guys have "adjusted" the factory clutch so it comes on sooner. It envolves bending the spring.
I figure the fan clutch is about $170 if that sovles it fine if not then do the waterpump and crossover and I would do the timing chain and gears because you have teh pump off and 80% of the labor to the timing chain and gears is done. Those items will cost you about $400 bucks. But why do it if the fan clutch and a good flush and cleaning of the raditor will do the job.
I have seen a lot of guys do the waterpump and it doesn't solve the fan clutch not engaging soon enough and then they put the fan clutch on.

I think Kennedys exhaust is 3 1/2 inch and cost is about $475 (I think) and he tells you how to install it yourself. Lots of guys like it and think it's fair deal.

[ 03-04-2004, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: 16ga SxS ]

[Marty Lau]

Originally posted by Craig M:
Hi 16ga SxS;

I am debating with myself on the cooling upgrades. Have a 95 engine. Think I will upgrade to the dual thermostate and higher capacity pump (cool is good). Unsure on the fan/fan clutch issue. See Kennedy selling a 21" Duramax fan and clutch ($200+ as I recall). From your post you seem to think the Hayden Severe Duty Fan Clutch (part number 2831 from their catalogue I think), with the original fan is an acceptable "upgrade" from original. Bill Heath knows all the specs on these and has very good pricing and is a DP advertiser. Kenedy Fan clutch $250 DuraBux fan $45
Bill said the Fan Clutch cut in Temp is 5 degree's lower for the 1995 replacement verse the newer version that will fit the DuraBux Fan. Bill said "The Duramax Fan will NOT move more air than your original it's just makes less noise".
Talk to Bill he is a Wealth of Knowelge.

[Turbine Doc]

Hi Tony welcome to the site prepare for weeks of reading it's addictive. I have the Banks Kit it was bolt on kit; I did in my drive took about 6 hrs IIRC. I did not know about the other systems out there as I did not find this site until after the install.

Check out Heath's and Kennedy's exhaust you will find the are competative with Banks, plus they know the GM Diesel with 1st han knowledge. Banks people are for the most part are just retailers & little been there done that knowhow that BH &JK have, if I were to do again I'd look hard at their stuff.

Also IIRC a FORD system will work on our trucks without too much hassle, the FORD guys remove their still good 4" systems for larger, many muffler shops have perfectly good "scrap" that will work for us with some fitting up, you might get a shop to recycle one of those for cost of install work.

Another tool often under utilized it the search button above, some of the many questions what oil, what mods, what breaks most, etc. are found with a search. Took me a while to fugure that out when I 1st joined up.

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

My pickup turns ≈ 2000 rpm @ 60 mph, which would give ≈2165 @ 65 mph; it has 4.10 gears. Keep in mind, unless you or someone else has adjusted your VSSB (vehicle speed sensor buffer), your odometer is off ≈ 4% because of your tires (I'm assuming your OE tires were 245/75's - 265/75's are 31.65" OD, 245/75's are 30.47" OD.)

Blessings!

Brian Johnson, #5044

[Tony J.]

How about this scenario-
Arizona driving/towing (9,000 lb toyhauler, most towing during winter months)
Stock 6.5 w/ 140K
$1,000 to spend on perf/cooling mods

What would be the first couple things you would do? I want the truck to LAST, and pull hills comfortably...

Thanks,
Tony

[Marty Lau]

Tony;
I guess you didn't understand and can't look around at Kennedy's and Heaths Web sites. So here;

$1000 bucks

1. Exhaust Heath 3" $380 Kennedy 31/2" $475
2. Hayden Fan clutch (Heath) $180
Kennedy Fan Clutch $250 +fan $45
3. Remove and clean Radiator and coolers $100-$150
4. New Injectors if you have the orginals on
Kenndey $300 plus $25 return line kit
Heath injectors $379 plus $30 install kit

Now it's up to you!

[pannhead]

hi tony...welcome to the addictive love/hate world of the 6.5 td :D

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
If it were me I think I would invest in some real gauges. EGT, trans temp, and a good engine temp. All the perf mods in the world won't help you a bit if you don't know whats going on. The EGT will tell you ALLOT. As to the exhaust, why not start real cheap and just get a new "unmodified" down pipe, clean up the factory pipes :D (if you know what I mean) and then see what happens. the most you would be out is the cost of pipe to replace the muffler and "TEST" the cat. tongue.gif
I can't really tell you much about cooling problems as my rig has never had a problem. It has been covered on the sight, do a search. I do know that many cooling issues have been solved with a removal and cleaning of the rad and coolers.
You can really spend a ton of money fast on these rigs and it is SOOOOO much fun :D
Be carefull and start with the minimum expense and go from there. Read all the posts about power gains and money spent, there are some real thrifty smart members out there!
L8r
Conley

[Tony J.]

Hey thanks, Conley. I'm a former jarhead myself- 86-92, Airwing (feaux-Marines). Anyway, I guess I torked 16xga or whatever off. With my present, limited knowledge of what I just bought, and after reading dozens and dozens of threads, my brains were scrambled. I'm trying to spend my dough as efficiently as possible, and get the most bang for the buck. I'm definitely going to do some gauge shopping. From what I've seen, all these big pickups share the same weak link, regardless of make- and that's the auto trans. I'm thinking EGT, trans temp, and I don't know what else. I know I NEED cooling mods, as I live in an extreme climate. I will definitely start with the fan/clutch setup, and maybe the dual t-stat h20 pump after that. I was looking under my truck today, and it either doesn't have a cat and does have a muffler, or vice versa. Anyone know what the deal is? It's got one unit up front right under the passenger floorboard, and then it's straight pipe all the way to the back of the truck. I believe it's stock, but could be wrong. Also, under the hood, there's a small brass valve at the front of the engine, right near the thermostat, with a small hose running through it. Anyone have any guesses as to what that could be? I can post a pic of it if it'll help...

[ANXIOUS-SUBMAN]

Tony J,
The valve you mentioned is to drain water from the fuel filter.

[Billman]

Tony

Sounds like somebody has been under your truck already. Directly under the passenger floorboard should be the 'cat'. Gut that sucker or remove it completely. Hard to believe that it is still 'full' or even there after someone removed the muffler, which should be in front of the rear axle.

Hi-flow air filter, coolings mods, exhaust upgrade, & EGT gauge should get you started.

Towing 8500lbs. shouldn't be too difficult.

Start thinking 'Chip' ...

[Dvldog 8793]

Tony-
We may have worked together, I spent most of six years at Cherry Point and New River. Minus about a year spent w/ SOTG :D THAT was fun year!
I would get rid of the cat and then get a new down pipe. What size is your exhaust pipe now?
One other thing to do for the heat is to move FSD to a remote cooler. Also get rid of the 6.5 plastic cover over the upper intake. Keep reading the posts and asking questions the people here are VERY knowledgable, for the most part! ;)
L8r
SEMPER FI!

[Marty Lau]

Tony J;

Sorry to come off on the gruff side, it was one of those days.

Your 3500 never had a Cat only trucks with a GVW under 8,000lbs. L56 engine code, you have an L65 engine and never had a cat or soot trap. (Not sure about later trucks) I think your getting on the right track. The GM Automatic transmission is a good one, I would make sure you change the fluid and filter tho, many people don't bother to service transmissions until it's too late. Gages are nice but not needed until you change Boost pressure and fuel delivery. yOu can change exhaust and do some or all the cooling mods and not have to gage it. GM engineers built in safe guards into the "computer" programing to prevent the engines from melting down. If you change the the chip or have the computer reflashed and or up the boost then gages are a must as you can get these engine too hot.
Keep reading as with anything new the more you read the more it will fall into place.

Take a real close look at the pipe that comes form under the Turbo charger ( not the easiest to see) but if that pipe is smooth it has been changed, if it has dents and kinks in it its factory. Once you have the down pipe of (OEM) you'll scratch you head and just be amazed as it looks like as if it has been run over by a truck a couple of times. Getting rid of the factory down pipe and a better exhaust gives you more power, better fuel economy and the engine runs cooler. Hope this helps.

[ 03-08-2004, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: 16ga SxS ]