Biodiesel

[James Schaack]

hi everyone,

i was curious if anybody has tried using biodiesel in their 6.5 TD? What are some of the positive and negative effects? What grade of biodiesel are you running (B5, B10, B20, etc)? I am currently driving a '93 Chevy 2500HD w/ 6.5TD and was curious how well biodiesel would work. i have done a lot of research on the topic but wanted to hear some first hand experiences with it before it tried it.

thanks for the help!!

schaack

[MtnHiCO]

:D Hey james, didn't run BIO in my '94 6.5 TD, but will start running B20 in my 24valve Cummins tomorrow.A gas station in Boulder,CO.(not far from me)is carrying B20 at the pump.Just drive up and fill up :D They also offer B100 but it's getting alittle cold around here for that?I'm gonna try the B20 for awhile. I've heard that with the higher milage engines you should be ready for a fuel filter change when you first start running BIO, it cleans out alot of the gunk.The lubricity of Bio should help the pumps too.keep us posted on how it goes, not many,if any, on this page run BIO. That's the reason I bought a diesel! tongue.gif Mtnhico

[StephenA]

Hi guys. Higher lubricity is a good thing. What are the pump prices like, & any ideas on how I can find a pump near Pueblo or Colorodo Springs?

[James Schaack]

I haven't checked prices yet but I will the next time I fill up, there is a station in my town that sells Bio. Mtnhico, you are right about the fuel filter, pure Bio (B100) has solvent characteristics that will clean tanks, lines, etc. of any build up of "gunk." I've read that with the lower mixtures (B5, B10, etc.) it isn't as prevelant of a problem, but still something to watch for. If anybody is interested in reading about Bio, check out the National Biodiesel Board website http://www.biodiesel.org/ The site is jam packed with information about the product and also has a pump locator.

schaack

[MtnHiCO]

I just filled up today, and it was $1.89 a gallon for the B20. (20%Bio 80%diesel).Not to bad. I sware after about 20 minutes of driving engine noise not as loud :eek: Mtnhico

[CaseyR]

There is an Alaska/Tesoro(?) station run by Albina Fuel in SE Portland that has a BioDiesel pump. Just filled up last weekend for $1.899 - at the peak a couple of months ago it was $2.099. I think #2 diesel at the truck stop I regularly drive by is currently $1.519 and I saw several signs at neighborhood stations saying #2 diesel was $1.799 or so.

Anyway, I have only gone through a couple of tanks of Bio, but I can't really tell any difference between Biodiesel and regular #2 (except a slightly lighter wallet...) I have been using an additive to improve lubricity with #2 diesel but didn't add any with Bio. Of course it would take a lot of miles to have that make a difference.

FWIW, I read a blurb on the TDI page (Volkswagen diesel discussion group) where they said that the lubricity problem with de-sulfered diesel was because of an early process of removing the sulfur which also removed some of the lubricating qualities of #2 diesel. They said that the major refineries had now change to a newer process which no longer removed at the lubricating factions in #2. They seemed to infer that lubricating additives weren't really needed. Any thoughts on that? And also, if I do continue to use an additive what is a good additive at a reasonable price if I buy in case lots?

[DChristie]

Good morning all,
Biodiesel is a trans-esterfied vegetable oil, the process is fairly simple and can be done in your own garage for between $.50 and $1.00 a gallon. plus an investment in equipment (which also can be made at home), the hassle factor of collecting all the ingredients, and mixing your fuel.
Running 100% bio you will have, but probably not notice a 5-7% power loss. If the bio has been waterwashed you will have a 12% power loss.
If the bio has not been H2O washed, the methanol or ethanol used in the process will degrade the rubber in the fuel system eventually.(somewhere around 60k or 80k)
It is pretty cool to do, and fairly easy to know if you got it right. You get diesel and glycerin separating like milk and cream.
Be warned if you get it wrong you can end up with lots and lots of soap.

[MtnHiCO]

CaseyR, at the risk of sounding preachy :eek: I think your missing the over all benefits of using Bio! Not only are we supporting U.S. farmers, we are potentially reducing the demand on foriegn oil, and less emmisions is nice too. tongue.gif Mtnhico

[KingNuzz]

James,

I've been running mostly B100 in a mechanically injected 6.5 since the summer, with no significant problems. My experience:
- Slightly quieter engine
- Fuel mileage down from around 18 MPG to 15. Bio has lower energy content per gallon; more is needed for the same power.
- No fuel filter change yet. Have a spare one on hand.
- The truck smells better. Sort of a mixed barbeque smell. People are amazed.

The big deal to me is the lower emissions, greatly reduced carbon dioxide, plus reduced dependence on petroleum and all which that implies. It just makes so much sense. Feels good too!

I'll live with replacing rubber fuel system components if need be. A small sacrifice for driving a big pickup (or any vehicle) and that runs clean on renewable fuel. Save the petroleum for our kids and grandchildren - for medicines and durable goods.

[catmandoo]

i live in iowa soybean capital of the universe and my understanding was 1. it helped the local economy and 2. reduced dependence on foreign oil and 3. because it was grown right here was supposed to make it cheaper!if it's gonna cost me 30 cents more a gallon i just as well drive a gasser it would be alot cheaper!i drive 60,000 miles a year at 30 cents a gallon difference i could save a 1000 dollars a year or more.

[Bill H]

DChristie

Please tell us how to make biodiesel for $.50 -1.00/gal in the garage and we will follow you to the promised land. Hallelujah, brother, hallelujah !!!

[bertcarrier]

You guys need to check out this page:

www.greasel.com (http://www.greasel.com)

They sell all the parts required to convert your diesel to run on 100% vegetable oil. No kidding. I bought the kit and now have it about 90% installed on my 1992 6.2 K1500. I'll keep everyone posted on my progress. It shouldn't be long now!

[DChristie]

Good Morning!
Rather than spelling out the process, I'll give you my primary resource. A book by Joshua Tickell, named From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank. I first heard about bio-diesel on a job in California, I didn't think much of it. Several years later, as I became more interested and dug a bit deeper, the most complete resource commonly referred to is this book. It is available by special order (about 25.00$ +S&H)or direct download, for about 10.00$.
Since I live in Houston TX. (It's all my fault I was born in Montana, but can't remember how to get back. I miss my northern home.)
Technically I don't run Biodiesel, I have and it's great, but because of the hassle factor I mentioned, I quit. I do run a dual fuel system, of straight diesel to startup and shut down or any time I need the power, once the truck is at operating temp. I flip a switch and run on straight recycled vegetable oil. ($FREE$)
This is described in the book also. I do recommend some modifications to their system. WARNING If you run this dual system in a 6.5 you have to (yes, must) move your PMD and add the cooler.
I'm considering starting up a business here to sell and install these conversions. Wish me success.
If someone has specific questions don't hesitate to ask.

[DChristie]

Forgot to add my conversion cost about $800.00.
$500.00 For a 60 gallon fuel cell and about $300.00 in other parts and pieces.
On the bright side I can claim a tax break for an altenative fuel vehicle.

[DChristie]

I see an incomplete thought in that first reply
Sinci I live in Houston TX. The raw resources for making biodiesel are readily available. vegetable oil and methanol. With refinery row just across town methanol is in ready supply, and with more than 3000 fast food resturaunts paying to have their waste oil disposed of, I have zero trouble getting it for free.

[stig]

DChristie,

Drop me a line at jabellah@hotmail.com I'm in the process of converting my 95 Sub to run on veggie oil. I could use a little advice on plumbing and basic electrics (switching between diesel fuel pump and veggie fuel pump).

Thanks.

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

I hope you folks (esp. DChristie with his '95) will keep us updated on how this goes. I was in a biodiesel forum until about a year ago. I had to quit - biggest bunch of babies I ever heard from. It was about 2% biodiesel, 98% flaming each other. If DP members look into biodiesel, it'll be ALL good info.

Blessings!

Brian Johnson, #5044

'82 6.2 1500 4X4 1/2T pickup, 4spd man w/ OD, bone stock, 335K+, "In Rust We Trust"
'89 6.2 4X4 1/2T pickup, bone stock, 146K+
'95 6.5TD 2500 4X4 heavy 3/4T pickup, Gear Vendors Aux. OD, 184K +
'95 6.5TD 1500 4X4 3/4T Suburban, Kennedy exhaust, 200K +

[StephenA]

Count me in too; last year I looked into some german made fuel heaters for vegetable oil. Sure would be nice to turn a vat of grease into non pulluting fuel. I heard is smells like a donut shop.

[ 10-08-2003, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: StephenA ]

[DChristie]

TOO True, it does change the way the engine sounds and how the exhaust smells, clatter is reduced and depending where I get oil I either get pulled over alot "hand over the donuts and nobody gets hurt" or Barbeque is on the menu. The collection process has put me off of french fries, a mixed blessing.

[Bill H]

DChristie,

I finally got my truck running after a month of sitting in the driveway. I was terrified to take it to the stealership and get ripped off (like so many members here complain has happened to them) for what's supposed to be covered by warrantee. Thnx to another member, (nameless here, but a one in a million righteous dude) I piggybacked a new FSD on a cooler, and I'm on the road again.

BTW, Anyone needing a new FSD, I highly recommend Midwest Fuel Injection http://www.mwfi.com/featured_fsd.htm $190 + $7.50 shipping. They threw in an IP wiring harness, a resistor, a key chain and a note pad.

Now as the yuletide approaches, visions of deep-fried sugar plums are dancing in my head. The dual fuel seems to be the deal. How exactly do you get the free used cooking oil? Go into MacDonalds, order a Big Mac, and they ask you at the counter if you'd like a 55 gallon drum of grease to go with that? Seriously, is it the smaller restaurants, or the chains, and how best do you approach them for free oil. What do you use to collect the oil? Do you have to filter it before you fill up the veggie oil tank on your truck? I will eventually buy the fryer to fuel tank book you recommended, but I'd really appreciate your input from your first hand experience. I may have some GM documents to trade and I see you are also a homebrewer of beer. Please email me at bargain_quest@yahoo.com . Perhaps I can help you with your veggie oil conversion business, homebrew recipes, etc.

[GMCfourX4]

One good website to read over is www.VeggieVan.com (http://www.veggievan.com) Lots of good info, links, and the book mentioned earlier.

-Chris

[DChristie]

BillH,

I get oil from several mom and pop restaurants here locally. They have to pay to have it hauled away otherwise, keeps me in steady supply.
Last month I took a road trip around the country, New Mexico and Arizona Idaho and Montana back through Wyoming and Colorado. On the road I've found that it's best to do a little recon prior to asking for the oil, but pretty much as you describe; order a burger and fries (maybe) and ask the manager for the rights to the greasetrap. I did get turned down quite a bit. 2 outta 3ish, They have no other reason than to not rock the boat.
Carry a white hardhat and look official and you can buffalo most of 'em if you just help yourself and they ask what's going on. "Takin' samples, we'll get back to the management if there's a problem. No news is good news. Have a nice day." This little bit of subterfuge is entertaining, and the restaurants typically don't own the trap so they don't really have a leg to stand on. Although they can call the cops. You don't have to worry about the Waste company sneaking up on you, they only come around every month or so. Do try and be tidy.
The Recon is to save you the trouble of asking for permission to suck out 5 inches of sand and water from a recently emptied trap. If it isn't half to three quartes full move on. there's nothing but trouble in a less than half full trap.
I use a fuel transfer pump 12 volt 10gpm to collect oil through a filter (rock-catcher) into a sixty gallon fuel cell. There the oil is heated with engine coolant in a copper coil to reduce viscosity, it gravity feeds into another filter ten micron, (I've read you can get away with as big as forty microns in the fuel, but I don't risk it) and is pumped out of this filter to the IP in a heated fuel line. Heat is vital to using VO effectively.
My early 10micron filter system was unheated and a low point in the system, it is still the low point but is now heated and insulated, this extendes the life and effectiveness of the filter. Lard was congealing in it prematurely plugging it.
Fry oil at ambient temps looks awful, the animal fat seperates out and changes color and texture. It looks gritty, not like anything you'd want to try and use as fuel.
I hope this answers a couple of questions.
Be well,
Donald T.

[tom.mcinerney]

Casey R: You could do a forum search on 'fuel additives', 'lubricity additives', etc. Some pay for themselves with improved mileage.
Within the past year(going from memory) More Power reported that GM had finally decided to suggest/endorse the use of lubricity additives. According to More Power, they had previously maintained that additives weren't necessary/desirable. The older GM(Stanadyne) pumps were inherently more susceptible to wear than the older VW(Bosch) pumps, as a result of both pump design and mounting location. My local injection shop told me they strongly recommend a lubricity additive. Keep tank over half full to keep pump cool.