Removing bottom spring leaf

[Diesel Freak]

Hi all, I'm wanting to remove the bottom leaf from the spring pack in my 1 ton dually. Has anybody done this? Are the U-bolts threaded long enough to account for the thinner spring pack? How about the center bolt thru the spring pack? I have a set of airbags I'm installing so I'm not worried about losing capacity, just trying to get a smoother ride empty. Any help is appreciated!

[JimWilson]

You want to diminish the capacity of your truck?? That's a new one on me...

[svpdiesel]

DF- have a local machine shop make a spacer to take the place of the leaf you remove. That way, the ride height stays the same, you just get rid of the OL leaf, and don't get launched off the ground over every little bump. Helps a lot, and the bags easily make up the capacity.
Some guys just cut up the leaf, and put the center piece back in... crude, but effective.

[Kennedy]

IMHO, leave it in there, and take out the overload "slapper" blocks on the frame...

If you remove them, the effective load carrying capacity will likely be diminished excessively.

[Colorado Kid]

JK has the best advise here.

If you cut it or replace it with a block you will create a stress point in the next spring up, it will eventually "fold" right at the edge of the block or cut.

I know leaf springs look as simple as raocks, but there is quite a bit of engineering in them, especially 3 stage springs. That "smoother ride empty" you're looking for will only result from the remaining springs doing a lot more flexing...air or no air, and without the support of the bottom leaf the others will fatigue.

I suspect you can actually achieve a smotther ride by using your airbags to raise the rear a little...this will keep you in the operating range of the springs, but the second and third stages won't get involved as often, smoothing out the ride. I know my 2500HD (with 2 stage springs) rode better absolutely empty than after I installed the 5th wheel hitch and toolbox...the little bit of load compressed the springs to where the second stage gives a kick over relatively minor bumps...it takes about 800# in the bed to calm it back down...I'm using the rough ride to try to persude my domestic supervisor that it needs Bilstein shocks. ;) You won't tell her that, will you?

[Kennedy]

DF,


You'll also want to notch the Air lift brackets just a bit for clearance at the lap joint of the frame. I've done several installs, and each one I notched. You'll see how there is a triangular lap near the bump stop holes. The bracket wants to sit on top of that when the bolts are installed straight.

[Diesel Freak]

JK, thanks, once I actually get around to installing those airbags, I'll do that.

Adding the airbags should more than make up for removing the lowest spring shouldn't it? My problem is just like Colorado kid stated, once I installed the gooseneck hitch, the torklift camper mounts and the torklift receiver hitch, I added about 400lbs to the back. Just enough that I hit the lower springs when driving empty. Would raising the rear with the airbags actually help, or would I be fighting against the added stiffness of the airbags then? And it's not like the rear of the truck needs to be raised any higher, it already has a pretty good rake to it.

As far as removing the bump stops on the overloads, when I'm empty I'm never getting near them am I? It's the slapping of the lowest 2nd stage spring that I'm feeling right?

[JEBar]

about a year ago I had the longest removable spring removed from the rear and added airlift air bags with compressor ... made a big difference in empty ride and with the air bags I don't appear to have lost any hauling capacity .... Jim

[Diesel Freak]

JEBar, when you say the longest removable spring, which spring do you mean? I'm wanting to remove the bottom thickest spring.

Thanks!

[svpdiesel]

DF, after reading a few replies here, Colorado is right about not taking out the bottom leaf in the pack- but the overload on a dually is actually above the spring pack, and engages stops mounted to the frame. They don't engage the leafs below them, only the stops on the frame. You could get away with taking those springs out, or as JK suggested, remove the stops- whichever is easier. But you definitely will need airbags to regain capacity. The 2500, like mine, has the overload as the bottom leaf, and it engages the leaf above it. Removing that bottom leaf could very well cause a problem some time later.

[mdrag]

DieselFreak,

"As far as removing the bump stops on the overloads, when I'm empty I'm never getting near them am I? It's the slapping of the lowest 2nd stage spring that I'm feeling right?"

It is easy enough for you to check - look in the dually wheel opening to the front and rear, you should be able to easily identify the OL frame contact pads and see how much space is there - the OL springs are the top most springs. Have someone jump up and down on the bumper and see how close they come or if they make contact.

Immediately after installing the VelvetRide shackles on my truck, there was about 1/2" of clearance between the OL springs and the rear frame contact pad, slightly more clearance on the front pad. Over 1 year later, the rear pad is resting on the OL spring when EMPTY, and the front pad is very close - so the springs have relaxed some with use.

I removed the rear contact pads for a few months and the ride was better, but decided to put them back on...I may take them off again...

[JEBar]

DF .... looking at the rear springs, (as is most always the case) the longest leaf is the one fixed so that in attaches the spring assembly to the frame .... we removed the one next to it which is the second longest .... hope that helps ... by the way, you are sure to hear all kinds of advice on this issue. Advice that will almost seem to range from your truck will fall apart if you remove any to take them all out and just use air bags. All I can tell you is what we chose to do has worked for us and if I bought a new 3500 today, it would be one of the first alterations I would make ... Hope this helps ... Jim

[ 03-12-2003: Message edited by: JEBar ]</p>

[felpa41]

I contacted Air Lift and asked them about removing a regular spring from my truck.

They replied that the OL spring removal would be a recommended modivication and all that would entail would be to put a little extra air in the bags to compensate for the lack of OL springs, when loaded.

They said they would not recommend removing any other springs alsthough many of their customers has successfully done so with no porblems reported. They said that axle wrap might be a problem if any of the regular springs were removed.

So, I just took off my stop pads for the OL springs. Maybe later I will remove the OL springs themselves. Haven't decided.

Removing the OL spring stop pads takes care of the noise that occurs when the OL springs hit the pads. That's a plus for me. The Truck rides nicely, even when empty.

[Diesel Freak]

I looked at the truck with varying levels of a load. Empty gooseneck hitched up ~400lbs hitch weight, overloads are not touching, bottom spring is hitting the rest of the pack. Bobcat on the trailer ~1500 hitch weight, it's sitting on the overloads. The reason I want to take the very bottom spring out is again, to get rid of the harshness when it contacts the rest of the spring pack. I would think that taking a leaf from above would make the pack sit down on the bottom spring all the time? I do see where it might have a big factor in axle wrap. Maybe I should just put a little air in the bags to raise the rear a touch and call it good??

Thanks!

[Kennedy]

DF,

You got it! I had 1 leaf added, and the remaining removable leaves were arched about 1.5" over stock.

The leaves themselves are quite LIGHT as far as spring rate. Once they flex enough to contact the lower bar, they "cross over" to a heavier rate.

It is my opinion, that these trucks, (especially the longer/heavier ones) are under sprung, and that adding some rate to the first stage will help hold the rear up and maintain seperation between the rates, allowing a longer travel at the lower rate...