No brakes or steering?

[ItsMrBill]

Has anyone had this happen before? I have a 2001 D/A that was resting in the drive way as I was cleaning my garage out. When it was time to drive the truck back into the cleaned out garage, I noticed that the brakes required incredible effort to stop the truck as well as the power steering seemed to be lost as well. At this point the truck was undrivable.

I shut down the engine and checked both the brake and power steering fluid only to find both are at their proper proper level.

Upon a restart the problem still happened. No brakes and no steering! As a last resort I placed the truck in park, increased the engine idle by pressing the accelerator and volia, both the power steering and brakes came back to life.

Is this a misnomer or is there something starting to fail in the vacumm booster department? I would not like to experience this while cruising down the highway or heading down a curvy mountain range.

[Idle_Chatter]

No vacuum booster, Mr. Bill. That's the problem - diesels don't make vacuum. Your brakes are "hydroboosted" off the power steering pump. If you lost both power steering and brake boost, then you have a problem with your power steering circuit, pump or relief valve. At this point it's time to get it towed to a dealer.

[Phil B.]

http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=004961#000000

See the link above. I had similar problems and posted a similar question back in January. Don't bother getting it towed to your dealer because the problem will go away by the time it gets to the dealer. It is an intermittent problem with the check valve (I believe) and it seems to get stuck. Each time it has happened to me, the problem repairs itself with time. The problem is that it is usually at the most inopportune time...

Call your dealer in advance and ask them if they would be willing to replace the hydroboost. You may have to tow it in once (even if the problem does go away by the time it gets there) just to show them that you are serious. My dealer agreed to replace the hydroboost, on faith, however, the problem hasn't reoccured since January....

Good luck.


Phil B.

[xwing]

The powersteering pump, which provides the hydraulic pressure to run both the powersteering and the hydraboost hydraulic brake booster, can snap its shaft. The pulley on the pump looks fine, the shaft turns, but INSIDE the pump that thick shaft NECKS DOWN to a (too small!) section, which can snap.

You can tell by trying to pry the powersteering pulley outward, if you can move it in and out an inch or whatever, then you snapped that shaft.

I did it when I was laying on the brakes for all I was worth once; then noticed the steering and brakes were super hard to use. Ended up buying a new pump from DMaxAlliTech and having it replaced by a local shop (cheaper than GM and I didn't want to do it this time).

If you weren't using brakes etc HARD, probably a stuck valve...but try to pry out the pulley, if it is broken you can do it with a medium size screwdriver pretty easy, it doesn't take a crowbar or anything.

GM NEEDS to REDESIGN that pump shaft, I can't BELIEVE this isn't a safety recall issue!!! That thing should NEVER break, if it is so close to design limits just by laying on the brakes, that is DANGEROUS in my opinion.

[HDMXDiesel0817]

Is this problem just limited to the '01 ('02) HDs?

As of yet I have had no problems in my '03, just makes me curious. :rolleyes: (probably just jinxed myself)


P.S. I saw in the link that you (Phil B.) had provided that oneton had this problem with his '02. Was this corrected for the '03 model year??

Or was it because his truck could have possibly been built early that year so it still had the '01 problem in it before it was 'fixed' in the later model years (if it was fixed)?

[SonicIT]

Hi everybody I own a 2003 HD D/A. It has a Rancho 4 inch lift and some 285's with 16x10's. I have been searching for some help with my trucks steering. It locks and it is very hard to turn at low speeds. Two different dealers have replaced two steering pumps and no go. The first dealer blamed it on the lift and on the (according to him huge 285's tires). The second dealer was a little more honest and told me that chevy knows about the problem and that they are not doing anything about it. The mechanic said that he was told by chevy not to even replaced the steering pump but the dealer OK it. Something funny I noticed is that the truck will steer perfectly below 70 degrees and above that it will lock specially when applying the brakes. I'll do anything to get this fixed, I was thinking to take my truck maybe tomorrow to 4wheelparts to see if they can recomend anything. The only thing is that lets say I put an aftermarket pump or something I could void the warranty. I love my jacked up diesel cadillac, except when I have to park, back up or get out of small drive ways. any help would be greatly appreciated....

[LB_7]

Bill/Phil

I'm new to this site and just posted a topic on this exact problem. I've got an '03 chevy 2500HD/Duramax/6 speed manual.

Phil - I've got Jim (a/k/a Turbo) trying to find your email address under your old name DMAX_Phil as we speak. I saw your post from January and it's the reason I joined. I actually printed it out and gave it to the service department to show I'm not the only person who has had this issue, what fix seems to work and that the thing is sporadic at best. The dealer is trying to help, but the GM regional service rep here is acting like he's never heard of it before and until the service department at my dealer gets it to replicate - no fix. The GM technical people say there's no way a hydroboost could create a problem like that.

Any information you have on what dealer/regional service rep approved the fix on your truck would be greatly appreciated. A service request number would be ideal! If anyone else has had this problem and managed to get it fixed under warranty, please let me know, too!!

My email address is: andyhaas@msn.com

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it!!

Andy

[Phil B.]

Hi Andy, I responded to your other message on this topic. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. If you don't get any solid info here, you may try calling different dealers in your area to see if they have heard of this problem. This may help with regional manager. You may also want to call Chevy customer service and try turning the screws on the regional rep.

Good luck,

Phil B.

[LB_7]

Phil

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to try the other dealers in the area today.

I had been working with a GM Customer Service person who was trying her hardest to be helpful and recognized the obvious safety/liability issues this problem creates. Unfortunately, she wasn't able to convince those who have responsibility for service here that there was any merit to those concerns. She went 2-3 levels above the regional service rep here trying to get someone to recognize the obvious, but to no avail.

Hopefully, the other dealers in the area will be more responsive than the dealer I bought the truck from. As I mentioned, they're a small dealer and apparently aren't willing to stand behind the product the way your dealer and others mentioned here have done. The service manager seems to want to help, but either can't or won't deal with this issue on a stand alone basis.

If you or anyone else here has any suggestions, I sure would appreciate the suggestions.

Thanks!

Andy

[ACCRASH]

About 2 months ago, my hydroboost developed a leak. I pointed it out to the dealer and they got it in and replaced the booster right away. Since then, I now have a similar problem to SonicIT. Occasionally at low RPM, I lose power steering and brakes momentarily. It's only at low RPM and only for a second or two. All fluid levels are normal. Just seems odd that it's only happened since the new hydroboost was installed. It's sporadic at this point, so complaining to the dealer is probably useless at this point as they probably won't be able to duplicate the problem. Any other thoughts?

Chuck

[LB_7]

I spent all afternoon on Friday talking with different dealers in my area. The bottomline is that no one is willing to repair the truck under warranty unless the condition can be replicated at the dealer's site.

At this point, if I want it fixed, I have to fork out about $800 to replace the hydro boost and steering pump on a truck that's 11 months old and has about 13,000 miles - just to be safe. I can't afford for this conditon to "replicate" when my son is driving it, or when the trailer is on and loaded!!

Glad I bought the extended warranty, too!

Does anyone have the addresses for the National Transportation Safety Board and/or the National Insurance Institute? How about 20/20, 60 Minutes or NBC Primetime?? They will all be hearing from me, whether anything comes of it, or not, as soon as I calm down ewnough to write a coherent letter!!

Andy

[Phil B.]

Andy,

It was my understanding that the "stuck valve" that causes this loss of brakes and steering (vacuum loss), can only occur at start-up. This has been the case for me - only on start-up, never while driving. If you are experiencing this problem while the engine is running (it starts after driving the vehicle), I'd document this in a long letter to GM with your lawyer on copy. If this is your case, you need to start getting nasty with them and let them know that they will be liable for any and all damages that are caused by this problem. As much as I hate to be litigous, this is the only thing that seems to get big business' attention (liability to their bottom line).

If it is only happening at start-up, like mine, try having it towed in once more and demand they fix the problem. Intermittent problems are a bitch...


Good luck,

Phil B.

[LB_7]

Phil

It's only happened once and it was temporary at start-up. The problem is no one seems to know for sure what it is, - or will admit what it is - so how can I be sure it will only ever happen at start-up? What's the next step in the failure of these part(s)? I certainly don't know. I'm not an engineer. And don't want to take the chance that next time it's something catastrophic and they go out on a hill at 40 mph!!

I had just as many service managers tell me it's the hydro boost as I had tell me it was the pump. That's why I'm replacing both at my expense - and in this post Firestone world - I would think that GM would replace those 2 parts plus anything else possible it could be to avoid the liability that WILL result the first time someone kills or mames someone because of their cavalier attitude about customer and public safety. You can replace one hell of a lot of parts for the millions in liability they WILL pay for even one catastrophic failure - not to mention the moral and ethical reasons GM should want customers to be able stop and steer - the basics of any vehicle!!

What's more likely is there's a cost/benefit study in some GM bean counter's file cabinet somewhere that compares the cost of replacing parts vs the probability of claims and concludes - let 'em die!!

I won't be a party to hurting someone.

Andy