View Full Version : ATS vs Suncoast (dollar cost) tranny upgrade
did some calling today to see the prices for each tranny upgrade, talked to joe at suncoast, he then refered me to to suncoast dealers in montana, i call them and the price at the one shop was 2100us dollars for a level two upgrade or 2700cdn. dollars
then called eric at ats, he then said his tranny upgrade level two was more for larger hp, and thought level one was all i needed, gave me a dealer in edmonton, call him, he said the same, level two is very serious, can adjust shift points for your driving, race application would actually squeal tires threw first three shifts, this is how hard it would shift, but you could adjust for solfter everyday shifting, also the lower shift pressures would give the tranny longer life than others, also said level two could handle over 650rwhp, he has seen, but the price for level one was 3600cdn dollars and 800 dollars for install, level two was another 1800 dollars, he felt level one is all i needed for a stacked combo
one thing i did see threw this is i respect my stock tranny a bit more now, also seen that bd has a tranny upgrade on the bombers site, but did not call them yet :eek:
[ 10-16-2003, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: fredw ]
Texas Red Wagon
10-16-2003, 16:50
Don't forget TTS & PPE for prices. :D
Scott
Fred,
Simple question.... Line pressure, what are it's affects? When a tranny goes "PooF" what generally is broken? What is it that really takes the line pressure? I thought that the spinning thing was where the "meltdown, poof or granade" generally took place, forgoing the clutches. Hummmm.... can you say Tripple....lock..... or Suncoast? Call Joe and ask him what the 4 course meal of an Allison is and you'll have your answer to an upgrade.
---- I would over build the trans. Building the Alli is pricy but "rebuilding" the Alli because you have new programs is REALLY pricy. ;)
Burner-------> :D
dmaxalliTech
10-16-2003, 18:27
Originally posted by Mike L.:
I think you should ask people with the ats set up if its holding, and would they buy it again. Do the same with Suncoast and TTS buyers. You will know what to do if you do the research. that, and what are you planning to do with it? what do they do with theres? Lots of choices for upgrades now.. I have a Trans go in mine and am very happy with it.. but Tomac has full ATS kit to hold his power..
also the lower shift pressures would give the tranny longer life than others,I'm wishing you could comment on this further ... Nothing worse then a builder commenting on other builders transmissions in this case to drum up sales,without documented proof ..... Isn't that right Mike L ?? Poor business tactics in my view .... TTS ,PPS ,Suncoast,BD are all running the same Shift Kit,probably others ..... If any thing I would have to believe ATS is running HIGHER pressure do to limiting clutch capacity .... What will that do to pump longevity ???
Mac ;)
By the way, yes, I'm fully Suncoast'ed,real happy with my choice ......
I know I made the right choice going with ATS when it comes to putting the power to the ground. Until someone goes faster with the same or fewer mods I won't second guess my decision.
The reality is, that you need to decide how far you want to take the Dmax and how hard you want to test it. As far as the Allison is concerned, Transgo, Suncoast, and ATS are the ones doing the REAL engineering. I also know that both are producing a quality product that they are continually polishing/revising.
A shift kit and converter is NOT going to get it done if you want to push it HARD...
jcummins
10-17-2003, 07:23
John how hard? You know I have the hot juice, and performance has backed off a little since initial install....I want it back. No ses, no limp, etc, but juice is backing off cutting performance, from what it was. I want to get what I got to the ground, and perhaps go to the 145 version. No drag strips, no burn outs, but stomp the Furds and Doodges...yes. That's as far as I want to go. Given that, I need, I assume convertor & shift kit. But clutches? From your experience, how much extra cost is with the cluthes if the other is done? Am I on the right track of thinking?
403turbo
10-17-2003, 08:29
jcummins,
In a nutshell, experience has shown that the hot juice or similar power upgrade +150 hp can be easily handled by anyones "stage 1" kit. ATS, Suncoast, maybe the straight TRANSGO. I don't have faith in the GM convertor(mine cracked), but others have not had problems.
When JK says HARD, he means seriously HARD. 550+ HP and 900+lbs at the flywheel, thats hard.
Don't mean to put words in your mouth JK.
I feel it is wise to overbuild rather than have to do rework, labor is not cheap.
Unless you are going to add 200 MORE HP to the Duramax and then beat the living @#**& out of it, the kit and convertor will hold you fine. JMHO.
The only question is how bad have you beat those clutches so far. No added power, you are fine, hot juice you probably have burned them some. By the time you pay for the kit and labor the clutches are cheap. C2's (the first to go used for 3rd and 5th) are maybe $150. I can't remember what I got charged when they did mine, but it wasn't a huge part of the total.
There are others here that have a lot more experience than I do, but I tried to summarize for you.
Have at it guys if I left something out.
Well, one way to do it is watch 403turbo and see if he can kill his! :D
The reality is, that you have to pull the trans and tear into it anyhow, so adding the clutches at this time is definitely a good idea.
Personally, I'd NOT suggest any mod pkg that does not replace/modify the converter. Anti balooning plates are OK, but I'd suggest a billet cover and be done with it.
From there it's up to you, but IMHO, if you are looking at an entry level setup, it may be wise to see how far the Transgo kit and converter can be pushed, and for how long...
mike
you seem to know alot about joe.......you should call him he doesnt know you (as of this past tuesday) :confused: ........number in my sig.....14k+ miles absloutly no issues.........hammered daily....tell us more about your allison experience......mike L
dave
Mike L, was the TransGo truck tested at the Dragstrip doing high boost 4wd launches? Was there any testing done at the pulling track running 1st gear high range with a 40000#+ weight transfer sled in tow with a locker up front and in the rear? Does the TransGo truck weigh 7000-8000# pounds like the average EC or CC 4wd 2500HD or 3500HD that many people own? Did the truck do any towing with a combined weight of 22000# or above? If the answer was no to any of these questions in my mind the tranny wasn't "TESTED" very well.
Power that can't be matched? :rolleyes:
What's Raybestos up to lately ??? Anyone know ?? Tweat tweat !!!!!
Come'on Mike L stick to the facts do the "research"..... I knew this was coming ,hence my Right Mike L comment ?? Every "kit" has it's purpose ....The Transgo-Converter hasn't been put to the test YET ,IMO ,but I'm not knocking it at all ..... It's coming along ,I may ride in one in the coming week,give it some Pow'WAAA ....
Mac :D :D :D
we should be careful mac we might get labeled "junta"......... :D
jcummins
10-18-2003, 04:00
Mike L - you saying the converter and shift kit protects the clutches that well?
sdaver are your clutches stock? I know you've ran the juice....with your Suncoast how does the Allison act with the juice, as to defueling, slow speed shifts, wot shifts? I have never liked how the Allison shifts with the juice.
Geerrhead
10-18-2003, 04:57
with your Suncoast how does the Allison act with the juice, as to defueling, slow speed shifts, wot shifts? I have never liked how the Allison shifts with the juice.
Well,
I'll try to answer your questions. In a nutshell, the shifts are much quicker. They are quick and firm, without being violent. I would venture to say, you could gain 2 tenths of a second on each shift. The defueling is not present after we upgraded the tranny. The PCM is in direct communication with TCM thru the CAN data bus. The Juice is watching the shifts in the TCM. If the shifts are quick, there is no need for defueling.
I appreciate all the work that has been done on R&D. An upgrade will transform your truck. I was a little hesitant about spending the money on a TC. After a ride in Mac's truck, I was convinced. That Suncoast converter is pricey, but I think you are getting what you paid for. I have seen another stock converter failuer this week. It was an 01 Dually. It cracked the lug.
I have the Hot OJ in my truck. My stock converter is to loose now. With all this extra torque the chip makes, I can't get it to the ground. It's pointless for me to add anymore power, with a stock TC. Well, that's my 2 cents. :D
big dipper
10-18-2003, 05:14
Transgo......a shift kit?
Anyone know what PWM is.............
Originally posted by big dipper:
Transgo......a shift kit?
Anyone know what PWM is............. I know, I know .....
Poor
White
Male
That's what I'm gonna be if I don't knock it off !!!!!! What I win what I win ???
Mac http://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb/hihi.gif http://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb/hihi.gif http://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb/hihi.gif
my defuel is off with the attitude and the attitude 145 is stacked on quads 215....no slip no issues.......
I loved your answer; you capitulated a drag race that never happened with all your excuses that nobody really wanted to hear or cared about. WTF?
So how was the tranny "tested"? You can only do so much testing in a light RC 2wd truck. If you were running 10's then I would say I couldn't compete. Otherwise lets see the Transgo truck at the DHRA races next year. PS heads up class - Single turbo with nitrous, no propane, minimum weight 6200# or up to two turbos, no nitrous, no propane, minimum weight 5500#.
[ 10-18-2003, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Micheal Tomac ]
just the opposite mike l, he asked me who you were on tuesday
403turbo
10-18-2003, 19:10
Hey guys I have no beef with differnt opinions but lets make sure that ths forum doesen't loose the class that makes this place differnt from the rest.....OK?
Hi Guys,
Clutches or No Clutches..
IMO, If you are pulling your Allison, replace ALL the clutches, THEY are Cheap (Inexpensive)..
As for Cracked TCs>> In most of the pickups I have seen it's came from the TC bolts being Loose or not installed from the Factory>> 2001s were the worst...
Slow down guys and Breath:)
dmaxalliTech
10-19-2003, 06:43
"There is no money in selling race parts"
I have to agree and disagree with that. While Trans go kits go into about every quality rebuild out there, even grocery getters because of there vast improvements over stock in a stock transmission with out sacrificing a decent shift, THey surely make there money on improvement kits and not from full blown race kits. They do sell them and they are good, but it dont butter the bread. The guys like ATS, Suncoast and others are not likely to get the call from a stock dmax owner, they cater to the HP guys and thats who pays the bills for them. There is plenty of room in the market for all companies to compete and thats just makes the kits better IMHO. If ATS is only company out there making super trannies, then they would suck! Fact is, the ATS is good and I know Clint is constantly trying to improve it, same for Joe, Steve and others. When a truck comes in for an overhaul with an Allison in it (stock truck) I cant sell him very easily a 3800 shift kit with conv. I can much easier sell him a 1400 shift kit with conv. When a "mike tomac" comes in, I can sell him the ATS with out even discussing price. Just the difference in market genders. I have the Trans go kit in mine and Mike Tomac have talked about getting it TESTED with some of his boxes/programmers... IT holds very nice with hot juice/pred stack. And a stock conv to boot!
:confused: .........Thats why I went to suncoast. Most tranny shops have neither the expertise or the desire to do what I wanted......The last thing you want is some tranny tech telling you what you don't need or want because he would rather be changing some snowbirds tranny fluid. Eric I wish we lived closer......You would have to run me away with a stick
mike
I talked to joe this morning and yes he knows you he did not realize that the person posting as mike L was you........sorry for the confusion. Just like you said when joe needs someone in your area to do tranny work he reccommends you highly......sorry for the misunderstanding
dave
[ 10-20-2003, 05:25 AM: Message edited by: sdaver ]
So what would be the best for 04 LLY with more power from the factory? and is there any dif. in the lly and early 04 tranny? I guess we'll have to see what mods will be out :rolleyes:
well i have had the suncoast level 2 tranny upgrade now for about 2months and to date no major problems, shifts a bit harder at slower speeds, but when on the throttle it works great, i now have a 150va stacked with the 150 power pup, with little defueling between shifts, and all works good, 1/4 mile time is down to 13s and when pulling a trailer all shifts are firm but not hard, so two months latter a very happy suncoast customer, work was done to the tranny in billings, montana and the cost was 2700us dollars, took a long day to finish :D :D :D
is there any diff. in the lly tranny than the lb7? :confused:
Originally posted by sixl:
is there any diff. in the lly tranny than the lb7? :confused: No, usually the diff is part of the axles. ;)
Don't know.
kerry witherspoon
02-10-2004, 18:21
Well guys there are a lot of diferent opinions on kits and what mods we do. Ias a mechanic first look at how clean the shop is where i take my truck,i am a serious beliver in over building and paying for a upgrade once but for the life of my truck. Some of us cannot aford to do it or will never push our trucks that far so for each of out tastes there is a supplier for us.I would love to go down to j.k shop meet him also duamaxilliteck and many others this board has many great people and carring members who do what they do because we love our trucks. So dont get into for lack of a better term a ****ing match about which is better ,but more understand each of use our trucks for different uses.My concern is someone competant to do the work.
Inspector
02-10-2004, 18:59
Well said Kerry.
I for one have a stock truck with Juice and Attitude. I pull a GCVW around 21600. If I am running level 2 and not flogging it am I taking a chance on screwing up the trans? I never drive the truck with or without the trailer over 75 and take my time getting to that speed.
Just asking for those of us that read these post and start to worry about driving down that long stretch of up and down highway if the trans is liking it.
Denny
Originally posted by kerry witherspoon:
Well guys there are a lot of diferent opinions on kits and what mods we do. Ias a mechanic first look at how clean the shop is where i take my truck,i am a serious beliver in over building and paying for a upgrade once but for the life of my truck. Some of us cannot aford to do it or will never push our trucks that far so for each of out tastes there is a supplier for us.I would love to go down to j.k shop meet him also duamaxilliteck and many others this board has many great people and carring members who do what they do because we love our trucks. So dont get into for lack of a better term a ****ing match about which is better ,but more understand each of use our trucks for different uses.My concern is someone competant to do the work. My shop is somewhat of a disaster area most of the time....
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