View Full Version : Allison Fluid, Filter, Pan Changeout?
After reading many posts, am considering changing out my standard Allison pan for a deep pan, and changing to Transynd (spelled correctly?)and a deep filter. Benefits appear to be lower trans temp, and the better operating & wear characteristics of Transynd. I realize the pan hangs about 1 1/2" lower. I have about 2,500 miles on my vehicle now. I do have several questions.
1. Any opinions as to impact on warranty?
2. Really didn't want to tackle myself. Was quoted $160 for labor, $38/gallon x 4 gallons for Transynd, $46 for the deep pan, and $20 for the filter. Is this reasonable?
3. Anything I should look out for or ask about before authorizing work, for example, the type of equipment?
4. Is this too early (too few miles) to change to Transynd?
Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
smile.gif
TG
TG, I'm planning to do the switch this week. I would bargain on the price of the Transynd and filter. I was quoted $44.95/gal from Valley Detroit Diesel/Allison Distributor. I asked them why there was such a price difference on Transynd because members here were getting it for as low as $28-29/gal. He changed his tune and said the best he could do is $33.95/gal since I was buying 5 gal. That didn't sit right with me since they are an Allison distributor and am sure they make a killing on the parts they sell, so I called Boerner Diesel Truck/Allison dealer. Gave them the same story and the guy said since you are buying 5 gal I will sell it to ya for $29.51/gal. I said SOLD. About the filter, they are going for $9-10, got mine for $9.25. About the labor, can't help except to say that most places charge $70-80/hr. Sorry about the long post, but to summerize it, bargain with them, use the power of the internet and the great information on this site to help you. Shoot, I do, and whenever I can I share what I know. Hope it helps.
Later
LA DMAX
TG,
There should be no impact to the warranty, subject to comments below related to "workmanship".
Don't know why you wouldn't tackle yourself because it's fairly simple (Lord knows there's enough room to get under the sucker, even for us "fat boys" :D )........drain the oil (there's a drain plug in the oil pan), remove bolts (12) holding oil pan, drop the pan taking care not to damage the pan gasket (it's reusable!), remove the old "shallow" suction screen and discard it (make certain the 'O'ring at the top of the suction screen comes out of the case, and discard it as well), install the "deep" suction screen in it's place taking care with the 'O'ring at the top, reposition the pan gasket and install the "deep" pan, torquing bolts (12) to 18 - 21 lb ft., and refill with whatever oil you want (I'd use good ole' Dexron unless you are hauling huge loads on a real consistent basis). You are only liable for anything you may screw up during this process. Warranty is still valid on everything else, since you haven't touched it. On the other hand, if you screw up the pan gasket, and develop an oil leak, that's on you!!
If you "chicken-out", and have the Dealer do it, there ain't really anything to be worried about, other than I'm not sure GM Dealers have the "deep" pan in their parts "system". Allison Dealers do!
I already chimed-in on replacing factory-fill Dexron with Transynd. If it helps you sleep at night, go for it. If, on the other hand, you are concerned about the return on your investment (in Transynd, cause it ain't cheap!), as I said above, I'd take a serious look at exactly how I was using my truck................lots of hard hauls/pulls, tendency towards warm oil (over about 225 F) on a regular basis, switch to Transynd! If not, stick with Dexron........it works for the vast majority of trucks!
;)
RKB'S HD
02-26-2003, 09:28
Just a quick question, when you install the the deep filter, were on the suction filter neck do you place the o-ring before instaling it?
[ 02-26-2003: Message edited by: RKB'S HD ]</p>
When you remove the old suction filter, it should be wrapped around the top tubular section. If it's not, it still in the trans. You have to reach in there and pop it out of the groove.
I believe on the neck there's a groove or lip that holds it.
I think the new screen comes with one? If not, transfer the old one to it.
On edit.....
In this picture you clearly see the o-ring on the neck of both filters.
http://www.uscom.com/~hoot/cars/duramax/gmc/allison/allis7.jpg
[ 02-26-2003: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>
I too am about to undertake this project and I have some questions I am not clear about.
I purchased a deep pan from:
PML Incorporated out of Inglewood Ca.
http://www.yourcovers.com/newindex2.htm
It is a cast aluminum pan with cooling fins. It adds about 3 quarts of additional oil capacity.
Questions:
Should I change from the OEM transmission oil filter to another type filter? Why couldn't I just replace my old filter with another one just like it?
I see something called a "deep filter suction" part from Allison (part #29537966). What is this and do I need one?
What size inside diameter hose is required to fit over the "from cooler" line in order to drain the oil from the transmission cooler, so as to replace as much of the old oil with the new Amsoil synthetic oil?
My truck has about 13,600 miles on it.
Thanks for any help!
[ 02-26-2003: Message edited by: felpa41 ]</p>
Felpa41,
That's a nice looking pan. I looked at the online instructions which stated this....
"7. Remove the old transmission filter and replace it with a new one."
I don't like that at all. There is a longer (internal) suction filter that is absolutely neccessary when using a deep pan.
If you use the shorter (internal) filter, sloshing will result in possible air injestion. Not good.
The problem is you have to know if the depth of this aftermarket pan is the same as the depth of the Allison deep pan. If so, you can use the deep pan (internal) filter.
The company that makes that cast pan is doing a huge disservice to the unsuspecting.
I also am concerned about a cast alum pan -vs- a steel stamped pan in off road applications.
My opinion.... go with all Allison stuff.
The deep filter suction is longer (and IIRC at a differnt angle) than the stock one. Since the new pan is deeper, the suction needs to be further down into the pan since the top of fluid level is the same as the stock pan. By just looking at the picture on that website you posted, it look as if you should get the deep suction filter too. That price seems real expensive. The deep pan I bought right from Allison was around $40-$50.
I used either a 7/8" or 1" ID hose for the return line. I think it was 1".
The stock Allison spin on filter is what I would continue to use. I haven't heard of any other manufacturer making a filter for the Allison.
Beware, when you first start the truck up the fluid seems to trickle out, then after about 10 seconds it gushes. I marked a 5 gallon bucket to where the oil level should be when I have all of the old oil out. That way I wouldn't have to relay on my sight to see when the oil color changed, which I never noiced. The Transynd is supposed to be slightly a different color.
felpa41,
I agree with hoot................take that oil pan back and go with all Allison stuff. You could be in for a world of heartache trying to figure out IF either of the suction screens available will work with that thing. Not to mention, you bang that cast aluminum pan out in the wilderness, and it's liable to crack and mess your tranny up real bad. If you happen to bang the stamped pan, usually it's only dented!
The manufacturer is implying that the existing suction screen is OK to use with the pan. Problem I have with this is I don't see where they ask the purchaser which OE pan is on the tranny................deep or shallow. If it was my $40,000 chariot, I'd be a little nervous about that one! Again, I'd take it back, buy Allison stuff and A) rest easy at night, and B) take the money I saved and buy some barley-pop.
As for the spin-on filter, the OE filter is a high efficiency design (high filtration level), and is probably the best value for your money. I'd definitely buy it from an Allison Distributor, though. :eek: The price at a GM Dealer is a might hefty...........and it's the same filter. smile.gif
Thanks for the nice replys and the advice.
After I posted my first message, I examined my pan carefully and I called PML Incorporated to ask them about the internal filter issue.
When I examined the interoir of the pan, I noticed four intergral cast aluminum pads (or stumps) about an inch in diameter sticking up from the bottom of the pan, offset a bit toward the drivers side of the pan. The front two stumps are longer than the rear stumps so the tops of all four of the stumps would be level once the pan is installed.
I measured the interior depth of the pan at the front (wide side) and at the back. 5 7/16 inches deep at the front and 4 1/16 inches deep at the rear.
When I sopke with the man at PML Incorportated, he told me those four pads or "stumps" in the bottom of the pan are designed to support the stock interior oil filter with no problem. A deeper internal Allison filter would not fit.
The truck is 2WD and I do not drive it off road.
Any further comments/advice based on this update?
If I decide to go with an Allison deep pan, I don't know where to get one. I called the Allison dealer in Austin, TX and he had never heard of a deep pan for the 1000 transmission. This is when I ordered the other one out of Ca. Central Texas does not seem to be blesssed with folks who know much about these trucks.
a64pilot
02-26-2003, 16:11
I seem to remember that the "deep" pan is actually the standard pan and the "shallow" pan on our trucks is something that is GM peculiar.
Maybe for ground clearance?
If I'm right then by "modifing" our trannys with the deep pan and filter, we're really returning the tranny to Allison's factory spec. ;)
Maybe the parts guy never heard of the "deep" pan because there really isn't one.
What a64pilot said. I seem to remember this also.
Steve
Thanks to all for the responses!! Much appreciated. LA DMAX, I appreciated your "negotiating" input since I really don't want to deal with a mess in my garage. :D :D
Best of luck to those of you doing this yourselves!!
TG smile.gif
Great advice on this issue. I also remember that the standard pan for the 1000 series is the deep pan we are discussing. GM spec'd the optional shallow pan for our trucks :eek:
BigAl,
"...If you happen to bang the stamped pan, usually it's only dented!..."
Don't forget the Allison deep pan comes with the corners 'pre-dented' for the tougher, already abused look tongue.gif
To all,
You are remembering correctly........the "standard" pan for these transmissions is the "deep" pan. GM went with the "shallow" pan for ground clearance.
felpa41,
You are literally in the backyard of the Nation's largest Allison Distributor........Stewart & Stevenson, whose HQ is in Houston. They have a branch operation in San Antonio right on I10 (210-662-1000). Ask for a "standard" pan......better yet, ask for it by P/N (which is usually what Parts Countermen understand; "words" confuse them!)
PLEASE, get rid of that other oil pan. Here's another reason why. Allison engineers the oil pan, suction screen, and the associated oil capacities to handle expected vehicle operations, a couple of which are called "pitch and roll". This means that the pan/suction screen/oil levels have been designed to meet operational angles (nose up, nose down, roll left, and roll right) to ensure the screen doesn't end up sucking air. Clearly, the oil level is one of the concerns, but where the suction screen is relative to the oil level is critical also. The screens are "set" near the bottom of the pans to ensure maximum operational angles. That's why you can't/shouldn't use the "shallow" suction screen with a "deep" pan. Even if you figured out a way to support it (cause the oil pan helps to do this, like the "lugs" in the bottom of your cast pan), the screen would be up off the bottom of the pan, reducing the "pitch & roll" capability. Listen to hoot...........get rid of it.
mdrag,
Hartey-har-har! :D A rugged, manly-man kinda part, huh! Heck, he could even take a hammer to it prior to installation to make it even more "lived-in" looking ;)
Kent Tuttle
02-27-2003, 09:23
If you have to have an aluminum pan you may want to check with these folks http://www.mag-hytec.com When I bought my diff cover from them I was given a tour of the shop and he showed me the deep pan he was working on for the Allison. I recall it was not going to be cheap. Just my .02, I would use the Allison deep pan. Good luck!
Thanks so much BigAl (and hoot and others),
Your explanation makes good sense. I have called Stewart and Stevenson (In Waco) and they are shipping me the Allison stuff out of Dallas.
I called PNL Inc. and they were very nice. They will take the pan back if I am uncomfortable with it. What I will likely do is trade it to them for a great looking differential pan for my truck.
They did not try to talk me into keeping the pan if I was not comfortable with it.
I also took the pan to my local dealer (less than a block from where I live) and showed them the pan. They assured me that they felt the pan would work well but if I had the transmission in for a big warranty repair, I should replace my aluminum pan with the stock pan before I brought it in. They too were accomodating and helpful.
Thanks again for your valued advice. It would be ill advised of me to ignore the advice of you and the others on this board.
It is a good looking pan, however! smile.gif
felpa41,
Huh...............didn't realize they had a branch in Waco. Sorry! :(
Glad everything came out OK on the "give-back".
Hello BigAl:
I just called the Waco office (got the number from the internet). I have never been to their office so I don'tknow what size it is.
Waco called Dallas and the Dallas office has "ordered" a pan and a deep filter that will be sent to my home.
Thanks again for the advice. I really appreciate it, especially the second one..that was the one that really chaged my mind. I thought, If Big Al was serious enough to make a second effort, I know he is talking serious stuff and I better listen if I know what's good for me and my truck.
I'm gald I took it, I don't need to be "thinking about" the aluminum deep pan with the short filter neck sitting an inch or more off the bottom of the oil pan, maybe sucking air when I make an abrupt move with my truck.
[ 02-28-2003: Message edited by: felpa41 ]</p>
Lone Eagle
02-28-2003, 21:52
BigAl, Is the 18-21 ft lbs right on the pan bolts? That is twice what I used on my last two Chevs. Later! Lone Eagle
Lone Eagle,
Just checked again.........right out of the ole' book......24 - 29 Nm (18 - 21 lb ft). ;)
Remember, this tranny has a substantial oil pan gasket (it's reuseable)..............it isn't like the old thin gasket material.
[ 03-03-2003: Message edited by: BigAl ]</p>
Hi guys,
I did not read all the posts so someone may have said this already...
IF YOU install a deep Allison pan, YOU have got to install the deep Suction Filter/screen..
The reason>>>> The shallow suction filter/screen WILL fall off, it may not happen today or tomorrow but it will fall off.......
If this happens you will not MOVE...
I promise you it WILL fall off... I know for a fact, I have replaced no less than 10 short suction filters/screens for deep ones over the past year.. None on pickups though....
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