Metal in Fuel?

[Bill H]

The GM warrenty doc says metal in fuel voids the 120,000 mile 11 year warrenty on the IP/FSD. How can I find out if I have metal in fuel, or otherwise test my fuel quality without taking it into the dealership? The warrenty doc refers to SI Bulletin 99-06-04-047A (diagnostic for metal in fuel). Anybody got that SI Bulletin ? Or any other fuel quality test?

[damork]

Bill,
I found that taking out the fuel filter and then fashioning a small vacuum hose to a shop-vac will suck out the bottom of the filter housing and clear it of most contaminants. I've also removed the complete housing which means unplugging the heater and water sensor lines as well as fuel lines to allow a thorough washing.

It depends on your comfort level working on the system, but it isn't difficult - more acrobatic work crawling around the top of the engine that anything else.

I did it once before taking my truck with a failing pump to the dealer as I wanted to find out indeed if there was metal in it myself. I didn't find any but added a pre-lift Racor 30 micron filter to my system shortly after that.

[rjwest]

I had metal in my filter ( and bad inj pump ).
Did metal come from pump and cause fail?
How does metal get through pri filter ?

I did add another filter in line so Stock filter is now the 2nd filter, should this extend pump life?

[ucdavis]

When I dissected a failed IP it had much metal in the body of pump. I believe (this is consistent w/GM Tech Bulletins) the metal came from the original metal rollers and/or IP internal wear surfaces associated w/the rollers.
I.e. the metal did not 'cause' the failure, but is the failure. The higher the rate of metal shaving production, the faster the IP fails. I'm thinking the metal shavings are wear of rollers or their bearing surfaces & that wear decreases reliability of the req'd ijection pressure & therefore reliability of injector opening pulses (failure = DTC 35/1216 and/or 36/1217).

[rjwest]

OK, Let me understand.
Metal in fuel is from failing pump.... But metal in
fuel is cause to void warrenty. ????
SO, GM never has to honor warrenty....

[Geo]

Originally posted by Bill H:
The GM warrenty doc says metal in fuel voids the 120,000 mile 11 year warrenty on the IP/FSD. How can I find out if I have metal in fuel, or otherwise test my fuel quality without taking it into the dealership? The warrenty doc refers to SI Bulletin 99-06-04-047A (diagnostic for metal in fuel). Anybody got that SI Bulletin ? Or any other fuel quality test?

[Geo]

My 1999 6.5TD is in the shop RIGHT NOW from IP failure - the mechanic showed me the metal in the bowl from the failed IP rollers - BUT GMC says that the only way they would pay for a new IP (btw which now uses ceramic rollers)is that the fuel tank be replaced and the lines blown out and the lift pump be replaced - AT MY EXPENSE - $approx $1400! I am arguing my case right now with corporate. Officially they are telling me this was caused by BAD FUEL!!! What BS! I am have a small farm and have been operating diesel tractors for 20 years! I totally regret the day I special ordered and paid $4500 extra for a GM Diesel. (btw - this is the 2nd engine - the block was found to have a cylinder wall crack last year at approx 65,000 miles)

[Dimsdale]

I fail to see how the metal, which must be bigger than 5 microns if you can see it (about the average size of a single red blood cell, BTW, or jeweler's rouge), gets past the OEM filter and back to the IP. It is unlikely to flow backwards, and the filter should catch anything bigger that flows through the fuel return system. So how can it ruin the IP, unless the metal comes from the IP itself? More likely, the failure is in the lining of the fuel tank, perhaps compounded by the eventual disintegration of the lift pump internals as a result.

At any rate, wouldn't a small magnet in the fuel bowl, or better, in a filter ahead of the lift pump catch that before it even gets to the OEM filter?

[rjwest]

i take my filters appart when removing.
the metal flakes i had were about .005 in
and none magnetic, like a bearing or roller,

all of us are not getting bad fuel.

i am sure it is the injector high pressure pump
recirulating the metal.....
i doubt it is getting past the filter.

if so than gm screwed us on that to....

i will never buy a new gm product again,

Question: How did the old mech puimps on the 6.2
last so long????????

[ucdavis]

Geo-
For more on the metal-in-fuel condition, go to
http://www.e-toolbox.com/ads/
and follow the links (click on the attributes corresponding to your rig: year, maker, model, engine). After clicking on 6.5 engine, choose Service Bulletins & Recalls, then Fuel Sys/Drivability. In PDF format you'll find the Service Bulletins issued on our engine. The second Metal Contamination bulletin is the current one & describes what happened (injection pump roller material (they don't cop to other than roller mat. but since your's never had metal rollers, only ceramic, I'd say pump housing or internal wear surface is really what's coming apart) or inoperative lift pump debris) & how the dealership should fix it. This covers method, but not how to handle warranty vs. charge the customer. Dealers have a multi-page diagnostic sheet that tells them about coverage w/in the 120,000 mile warranty they have to fill in to get reimbursed by GM. Ask to see that sheet so you can verify the policy is followed. Seems like some dealerships may be double dipping & charging customer as well as getting reimbursed for warranty work (like PMD change-outs claimed to be not covered when they are). I don't know whether the metal condition is covered, but you should be able to find out & post your findings here for others who need the info.
Thanks & good luck.
p.s. One thing I noticed is that '99 6.5TD only lists Service Bulletins for that year or after while '94 lists all since '94. Do your year, then compare list to '94 list to get older bulletins that also apply to 6.5TD.

[Bill H]

ucdavis,
You are surely one of the most helpful guys on the forums here. I also noticed you are in my neck of the woods, (UC Davis is 20 minutes away and Auburn is within 100 miles) Which electronics surplus store did you get the parts for your homemade FSD cooler from? Can you recommend a Chevy dealership in the area that I might not be as likely to get jerked around on the IP/FSD warrenty? Do you know a good GM diesel mechanic (professional, retired or hobbyist) that could help me (either with a paid sevvice call or one-on-one consultation) with diagnostics, and help me get ready for the dealership warrenty issues that might come up when I take my truck in? Do you know if the garage for AAA members in Sacramento is any good on GM diesels? I feel like you might be a crusader too. Do you know anyone in local media that might be interested in exposing these crooked dealerships? I'd be happy to send you the latest GM IP/FSD warrenty document with worksheets (dated 5/13/2003) by email if you'd like. - bargain_quest@yahoo.com

[Geo]

Well, the fat lady is singing. The Area Service rep (aka some NY lawyer)contacted me and was useless. Responded to my facts and questions w/ "I wouldn't know about that". He must have an MBA.... I told him I would pay for all the labor - GM should pick up the cost of the fuel tank and lift pump. No, they would only cover the IP... We went around and around on the 'how could bad fuel cause this on a 1 yr old IP as it is the 2nd one installed on the vehicle'... and how can we prove this as I am now paying out based on an assumption. I'm putting this behind me..