View Full Version : Number Two??
In the FYI and For what its worth category - 'Four Wheeler' August Issue rated the GMC Sierra 2500HD D/A number two behind F**D. We beat out the D**G* however!! Cancel my subscription :D :confused: ;)
Check this out - these are their two line summaries -
Check it out if;
Your looking for a refined, car like truck.
Avoid it if;
You mind your friends asking if its a two or four wheel drive.
Like I care what my friends think - most don't have a clue - like I've heard a few times on TDP -'Its a Harley Thing'
Murf
I just read the article and have to laugh.
The Ford was no winner in the drag race. Although it won, they said it was by an insignificant amount. Wow.... real winner.
The real kicker is the towing test.....
They claimed the Duramax dowshifted and redlined at 70 mph during the test. Redline on my truck is 3200. They said they were uncomfortable so they backed it down so it would upshift to be able to run 60 mph in 5th gear.
Then they said because the Ford has 1000 rpms higher redline, it was able to safely do the same pull at 75 mph. It had to do it in 4th gear just like the Duramax but with "allowable" higher rpms.
Diesels and durablility.... Just because the Ford had less red paint on the gauge didn't they feel uncomfortable running it at what? 4200 rpm?
You got to be kidding.
They did say if you want a refined truck.... don't buy the Ford. They continue to trash it's on highway tracking and road manners.
[ 06-19-2003, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: hoot ]
I think Ford builds a good truck but not a GMC. I don't know about you folks but 99% of my driving includes asphault. My 2001 was and still is a good truck as far as being rugged. I had good reasons to sell it. The brakes worked great.....until you had a "pannic" stop. :eek: The steering locked up if the truck was at idle (675 RPM) and you hit the brakes. That doesn't seem like a bad thing, until a small child darts out in the street while you're coasting along @ 40 MPH! The O'le thing would pull like crazy but ya couldn't steer it! The one thing Ford did not include with the truck is the tool to pull the seat out of your ass! The brakes, the steering and the combination of them just plain scared the hell out of me. :(
----- Hence, I have had an 02' and an 03 Dmax. I'm much more happy now.
Burner-------> :D
Count up the advertisements and space and you'll get your winner! smile.gif
In regards to Four Wheelers concern with redline issues - where and when should I become concerned - obviously keeping it below the redline is understood - but on some downshifts it gets pretty close - haven't gotten to tow the trailer yet :( so not clear on whats going to happen there. In reading past posts here many of the guys say 'Don't worry about it, the trannys doing all the thinking and its not going to over-rev the engine' I agree it hasan't yet, but how long can we safely run the D/A in the 'close to redline zone'? :confused:
I think they probably chose the winner before the test. Why would they back off the throttle on the d-max to force an upshift anyway. There should be no problem running it against the governer, and likely the ECM chose to as part of the "passive shift stabilization" program. Mine will do this at half throttle under the right conditions to avoid busy shifting. It sounds like a bunch of BS to me. I do agree that the 4D would do better offroad, but that doesn't concern me personally. And contrary to many opinions I do think that the 4Ds have more suspension component problems in the long run, and I don't envy thier drivability. I can live with being outraced, fair or not, I wouldn't trade powertrains regardless. My truck pulls like gravity in the 2k to 2.5k range and that is what I want. Sometimes it's fun being the one who everyone suspects is going to hold up traffic. --Nick ;)
chevmeister
06-19-2003, 20:14
wheres broker with his f-350 with half a million miles on it?
thats right it was a 3500 that went 480k+ wonder why the blue ovals in his fleet have to be 550s to compete
I find it very interesting that the 6.5 , with a longer stroke , redlines @ 3600 RPM but the Duramax is limited to 3200 RPM .
Like the "new kid on the block" wouldn't get the award? They did the same thing with our D-Max.
Blaine
a64pilot
06-20-2003, 06:15
EWC,
Typically on a diesel "redline" has to do more with the fuel inj. system and not the mechanical limits of the engine. I.E. if you look at the redline on our tach it is dashed all of the way to much higher RPM than 3200. I believe the top of the redline is what the General wants our mechanical redline to be and 3200 is our governed speed.
SparkyTX
06-20-2003, 07:51
I very seldom put much stock in what the rags say as far as the "best" anything. Afterall, wasn't it 4WOR that awarded the Lexus "SUV" as the 4x4 of the Year last year? C'mon.
As far as the redlining issue, all of the Big 3 build in lots of mechanical protections for us users. In stock form, it is difficult to damage one of these rigs. For 4Wheeler to say they backed off because they were concerned is pretty much BS. Ever seen any of their other tests?!? They NEVER back off! Maybe they actually had to PAY for that truck!
Anyway, I bought this rig for the confidence that GM put in such safeguards. And if I drive it within the limits (payload, GCWR, etc) spec'd by GM in stock form that I will have nothing to worry about, practically regardless of how hard I drive it.
And once I get my issue and read the article for myself, I plan to send a letter to 4 Wheeler regarding my opinion. Who knows, maybe it will get published. I once had a full-page spread in that mag, so I have some contacts over there. I would be curious to hear there full reasoning.
TexasMax
06-20-2003, 08:48
I hear ya Brian. The mags always seem to pick the least likely truck as the winner.
SparkyTX
06-20-2003, 14:18
Hey TexasMax! I know you, don't I? Don't you come out to our Mega Run at Shiloh each year? The rig in your avatar looks very familiar.
If so, what do ya think of us moving the 2004 MR to Gilmer? Events will be a little different, too, but we expect to get the mags back out.
DMAX Daddy
06-20-2003, 15:56
Murf:
In regards to Four Wheelers concern with redline issues - where and when should I become concerned - obviously keeping it below the redline is understood - but on some downshifts it gets pretty close - haven't gotten to tow the trailer yet so not clear on whats going to happen there. In reading past posts here many of the guys say 'Don't worry about it, the trannys doing all the thinking and its not going to over-rev the engine' I agree it hasan't yet, but how long can we safely run the D/A in the 'close to redline zone'? Look at the "Red Line" on the DMAX. You will see it is dashed up to about 4750 RPM. That is the true "Red Line" for the DMAX.
Why? When towing, and using grade braking coming down a hill, the DMAX/Allison combo will use these RPM's to slow the load. Essentially if you drop from 4th to 3rd while grade braking, you will see your Tach swing way up into the 4000 RPM range.
No Worries! Its designed to operate like this. smile.gif Dont worry about the DMAX getting near the red line. As A64Pilot mentioned, the 3200 or so red line is more of a fuel system/speed red line than an actual engine "comes apart like hand grenade" red line.
TexasMax
06-20-2003, 16:23
Yep been there the last two years. Everyone remembers the truck but not me :D
Anyway, more than happy about the move to Gilmer. Ready for the obsticle course to be more that trees and logs. Us guys with big trucks can't turn like the jeeps smile.gif The main reason I brought my 71 this year was to try to get it in a Mag.
Take it easy
Dan
A couple of years before word of the Duramax was going to be introduced , there was an articule in , I believe , Autoweek that was talking to a VP or President of VW about the upcoming diesel features in regards to high performance . Many of the features he talked about are now incorporated in the Duramax . He also talked about the mechanics of the diesel combustion process and how basically all you could go to was 5000 RPM .
Seeing that the Duramax has a shorter stroke and 4 valves per cylinder and other high performance features , the 3200 RPM redline seems a little low especially when compared to the 6.5 and the above information . It doesn't matter if the fuel system is limited , which I doubt , or the mechanical parts are the limit . The package as a whole is only able to operate to the redline .
If you also look at the HP and torque graphs , you will see a graph that does not taper or fall off like the 8.1 does . It's almost like GM did not finish printing the charts and stopped at 3200 , but the torque does not begin to decline . Some engines have two peaks . Does the Duramax ? With 4 valves per cylinder and a better injection pump and turbo , it makes me wonder if we know the whole story about the Duramax in regards to HP and torque .
The other item is the grade braking RPM which I want to say was 4200 RPM , if I recall correctly . When you add all of these pieces of the puzzle up , I get the conclusion that the redline is low for the Duramax .
If the redline is spaced out on the tach and the limit is 4750 as suggested then maybe the red spaces should infact be yellow so as to avoid future confusion .
[ 06-22-2003, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: EWC ]
DMax engine can handle about 6,000 RPM's
Diesel fuel in this engine setup will only reach 4,800 RPM
DMAX Daddy
06-22-2003, 23:36
I aint gonna flame you Burner smile.gif
On comment though, why worry about Off road 4WD? Its illegal about everywhere in CA, I think the only place I can get dirty legally within 300 miles of my house is Happy Valley. (Except for the obstacle course here at the Seabee base where they teach the youngsters to drive stuff)
Nah , no flames . I , like yourself , have come to conclusions from articles , experience , talking to other people , etc .
One article that MP posted before beginning the Power Project 2 was the Chevy Duramax for the Pikes Peak climb . Stock engine with a different ECM . They mentioned 600 HP and 900 lbs*ft of torque . I don't know if the figures are accurate or BS . I don't think they are unrealistic , just look at the numbers that JK and some others have attained . Awesome !
Some engines that have been produced have handled a lot more power than was thought possible . The Ecotech is one ( hope that is spelled right ) . This is a 4 cylinder engine that is used in some FWD GM cars and has been turboed to 1,000 Hp with the stock block . John Ligenfelter ? had one in his former Pro Stock car and ran very low 7's . The point here is that if one were to mass produce an engine right at the limits of the design , you leave no room for upgrades or adjustments on a later date . The Duramax will come out this year with more power and different heads . How much more ? We'll see . In the past GM has been very conservative in the ratings . I'm not saying this is bad . I just think the Duramax is very capable of more without going BOOM .
:D Young Grasshopper must agree 100% :D
Burner---------> :D
No doubt GM built in the potential for a competitive power increase. They wrote the book on doing this with thier gassers. I do think that if they can remain competitive while running at a lower governed RPM that they should. The guys that race would probably disagree with me here, but I think it makes 4Ds new 6.0 look a bit cheesy. But then again whats another scar on the elephant man. --Nick tongue.gif
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