2500 v. 3500

[SparkyTX]

Okay, I have already bought my 2500HD and ain't looking back, but I have a question regarding the 2500 v 3500...

They both have the same motor and basic drivetrain, so they should be able to support the same combined weight rating. Right?

The 3500 has stiffer/stronger suspension in the rear enabling a heavy payload and pin weight as well as more tires to spread the weight across.

The 3500 weighs more, therefore it actually can't pull as heavy of a trailer. (Just like 4x4 vs 2x4.)

So what is the advantage of the 3500 over the 2500 when it comes to a tow rig? Is it simply the additional pin weight value allowing longer trailers which usually incorporate higher pin/tongue weights?

I am asking because this Fall I will be pushing my 2500 to the limits with a large gooseneck, flatbed trailer hauling 2 large K5 blazers (4800# and 6000# respectively). I am expecting the trailer to come in at 15-16,000# after all is said and done. The trip is about 600 miles RT over basically flat, straight interstate (Dallas to Hot Springs). A friend has said my 2500 wouldn't do it, that I needed a 3500. I am not seeing this. What am I missing? And do you think the 2500HD can do this with smart driving?

[DalDMax]

The 2500 will PULL the same load as a 3500. It's just the extra 2 tires under the rear of the 3500 that make the big difference. If you have good trailer brakes and the pin weight of the trailer when loaded is within limits for the 2500, you should be ok.

Have you got the trailer yet? If not, a triple axle will allow you to carry more weight than a dual tandem axle setup will due to lower pin weight.

[Colorado Kid]

Been there, done almost that.

As you mentioned they have the same GCWR.

Also as mentioned the 3500's can handle a ton more pin weight (literally).

Buddy of mine has almost your truck (4x4 Ext Cab, Longbed, Dmax 2500) and almost your load (Very big Scout II on 35" tires. . . also figures about 6,000# and built Jeep (TJ) Wrangler on 37s. . . figure 4,500#) which he pulls to fun places to break them. . . er, that not what he says, it's just what he does. . . his wife drives the Jeep and almost never breaks it, the Scout almost always gets field repairs and has been loaded using winch power alone.

Anyway he drags them all over the Mountain West on a gooseneck behind his D-max. All the talk of it not being enough truck got his attention and he snuck up on it, using a 16' bumper pull for a year to haul the Scout while his wife drove the Jeep, or just leaving the Scout home for the long trips. Then he borrowed a gooseneck (a triple axle 30'!) which was so much better behaved that he sold the 16' hauler the next week.

As it stands now his rig (still stock)will still run away from his traveling partner's 6.5TD pulling an early Bronco on a 16' trailer on the upgrades. He's debating adding an exhaust brake, but thinks that may just tempt him to run faster between the corners on the downgrades with the result that he may be even harder on the brakes with it than without.

A 2500HD will do a very nice job with that load. A 3500 may feel even better, but it can't be by much. The thing to watch is rear axel weight . . . he has weighed loaded and has about 300# to spare on the rear axel (tires really) rated weight. You've got to have the tires right at max pressure for that weight, and he stops to check truck and trailer tire temps and how the rigs are tied down periodically.

[SparkyTX]

Originally posted by DalDMax:
Have you got the trailer yet? If not, a triple axle will allow you to carry more weight than a dual tandem axle setup will due to lower pin weight. Under normal circumstances I will only be pulling my big Jimmy by itself. So I plan to buy a dual axle trailer for keeps. I will only tow multiple rigs on rare occasion, like this trip to Hot Springs. So I am planning to rent a trailer for that. The friend who owns the second K5 I will be towing is going in on the rental with me. He figures that the cost of rental would be nothing compared to the cost of gas on such a journey in the K5, not too mention the extreme tire wear and teh cost it would take to get it home if it broke up there beyond immediate repair!

[DalDMax]

The weakest point in our (2500HD) trucks are the tires. 245/75/16 LR-E = 3042lbs cap per tire, or 6084 lbs total rear axle. Which suprise suprise is the rating for the rear of the 2500HD.

If you were to go up to 265/75/16 LR-E tires which = 3415lbs cap per tire, you would probably gain around 1000 - 1200 lbs of insurance, tire wise when pulling a GN or 5th wheel trailer.

[chevmeister]

2500s can pull just as much as the 3500s the 3500s just look better doing it :D

[ThumbScott]

Been there done that also. I pull a 16k fiver and started out with a 2500hd duramax/allison combo. You will need very, very good trailer breaks. I sold my 2500hd to a friend and got a 3500 duramax/allison and they say it pulls the same. Yeah right, to me it was like night and day. That 2500hd will be the last 3/4 of a truck I ever own. My 2500hd would pull the load no problem, but everytime I had to stop the Good Lord was watching over me.

The reason why I got the 2500hd is that was all I could find at the time and much easier to garage. Now I had to have a special garage built to house my green beast. But I sure do love her.

Good breaks, good breaks.

Just my 2 cents worth, I am bias to 1 tons. Love em, love how they pull, love hooking up to most anything and not having to worry. I had several difficulties with my 2500hd pulling. I had a 1 ton dually before that and before that one. So no dually give way to the tail wagging a few times. We don't get that with a d dually, or you don't fell it in the cab.

My advice, go all the way to the 3500, you can never have to much truck. I've had both and pulled 16k with both. It is night and day.

[SparkyTX]

Like I stated before, my normal towing will be either my 3500# pop-up, my 5000# boat, or my 10,000# K5 on a gooseneck. I am confident that my 2500HD will be just fine in any of those situations.

I will tow the large 15-16k# load I am looking at once or maybe twice a year in simple terrain. From what I am hearing here, the 2500 will do fine if I drive with intelligence knowing the weak points of the setup.

I, too, considered the 3500. Only problem I had with it is that 90% of my driving is in town. Manuevering the long, wide size of a CC LB 3500 dually was more than I wanted to deal with. This rig is my family's primary mode of transportation. Considering my normal driving and towing habits, I felt as though the one-ton was more than I really needed.

Thanks all for the advice, thoughts, and pointers!

[a64pilot]

Sparky,
It'll do just fine. So well in fact one of the biggest dangers is that it may make you overconfident.
DalDMax had it right, watch those rear tires, run them at max cold inflation pressures and keep an eye out for overheating. I think the biggest advantage of a dually is the insurance of two sets of tires and increased lateral stability, they won't actually pull any more than a 3/4 ton.

[PONCH]

THUMBSCOTT
JUST TO KEEP THE RECORD STRAIGHT: THE 2500HD IS A 1 TON TRUCK!

[a64pilot]

OK Ponch I'll bite. If a 2500 is a 1 ton then what is a 3500?

[ThumbScott]

All the 2500HD guys on this site think their trucks are 1 tons. Think what you want. I have had both and feel my comparision is mush more sound then those that have not.

2001 1st duramax allision truck was a 2500hd x-cab.

2002 2nd duramax allision truck was a 3500 crew cab dually.

The new trucks, number are numbers but lets actually pull and compare which is safer. My 3500 weighting 22k is 100 times saver then a 2500hd pulling 22k. Maybe not faster but SAFER.

As I always say 2500hd are 3/4 of a truck. Just my opinion. I pull the exact same loads with my 3500 as I did with my 2500hd. Night and day, no comparision. There is a whole lot more to a dually then just 2 more tires on the road. Keep telling yourself that. The stability of those 2 tires make a HUGE difference.

Short story. I has a 2000 3500 and pulled loads on the work trailer of @10k, which was weighted on a certified scale. I got my 2001 2500hd, exact same load on the same scale. 1st time pulling I am running down Center Road and all of a sudden I feel the ass end of my truck getting all loose and needless to say I now know what the tail wagging the dog is all about. I have pulled that load 50 times with the 2000 3500 and never ever had that happen, even with more weight.

I'd hook up my fiver to the 2500hd and watch the tires moan and skewish down slightly. 1st time I put the fiver down on my 3500 it hardly sat down. Tired didn't even move. I was very, very happy and felt good about the 10k it cost me to go to the 3500. Worth every penny.

How I got in the 3500 since money is an issue with me. Single guy and I work 3 jobs to pay the bills. Which I don't mine. I was telling a lady from work, yeah a lady the concerns. She said a friend was looking for what I had. Sold in 5 days.

I am pulling the same loads with this 3500 and I am back to the feeling of my old 3500 except I got the awesome duramax allison.

As for the driving of a 3500, you will get used to it and actually feel pretty good in it. I love the size. I travel to Chicago all the time and granted it is not advantageous down town driving, done it, but we take the girl friend Expoler down there.

I say lets hear from others that have had 2500hd and 3500 duramax combos. Not just 2500hd people thinking they are pulling machines. Just for the record, 2500hd's are awesome also and I'd recommend that for someone in a heart beat. BUT if you are going to be pulling anything of weight, better to be safe then sorry. Once you have an accident and someone is dead because you didnt' have the right setup it is too late. Major factor in my move from 2500hd to 3500.

Oh btw you said 2 a year. Yeah you just wait you will be doing it more just to volunteer to get the workout for your truck. Doing it now.

If you can afford it why not have it all! Are we not blessed to be able to discuss this and have options to what 50k+ truck to get? We are blessed!

I don't mean to fire anyone up. I just think if you give advice on the differnce between 2500hd and 3500 you should of had both or have both.

[hoot]

They are both 9200 GVW.

The 2500HD actually has a higher payload capacity than the 3500 because the truck itself is lighter.

[SparkyTX]

ThumbScott,

Thanks for your insight and reply. I guess I differ from many on here. I KNOW my 2500HD is a 3/4-ton truck. I also believe (from what I have read here and from what makes logical sense) that the 3500 is better-suited to safely haul HEAVY loads. It would tend to reason then that it is safer when hauling SMALLER loads, but could also be overkill (i.e. pulling my 3500# popup).

I understand your comment about how I say twice a year now, but that will go up just as I volunteer to work out my truck. However, I personally am not like that. Whenever I feel the need to prove something and strut, so to speak, I roll around town in my Jimmy sportin' 42" TSLs! That takes care of my testosterone moments!

I don't like white-knuckle towing. I have done it before. At this point I am trying to determine if I help out my very close friend (who has gone to the tilt for me before) by towing both rigs (hence the 15-16k load) to our offroad run 300 miles from here, or do I say that I just can't and he will have to find other means.

At this point, I believe I will probably help him out. We will be going during the light of day on a major highway. I believe that as long as I drive smart knowing my rig is pushing its limits, all will be okay. And this is NOT something I plan to make a habit of. (And I'm a guy that sticks by his plans.)

I have been offorading for quite some time with my rig in various stages of modifications (stock to anything but). With the exception of blowing beads, I have NEVER broken offroad. Much of this is because I know the limits of my rig and respect those. I wish I could say the same for most people out there, but I can't!

Again, thanks all for your thoughts, advice, and recommendations.

[hoot]

No doubt the dually is more suited to trailering because it adds rear load capacity and stability. That's why GM offers the one ton in a SWR and DRW configurations.

Look back at the older trucks years ago and tell us what the GVW of the one tons were.

The names are meaningless 2500 means nothing more than a model name. 2500 what? lbs? NOT

One ton is 2000 lbs.
A 2500 crew wieghs 6400 lbs. 9200 - 6400 = 2800 payload.

So a 2500HD can handle more than a ton.... more than a 3500 in the bed.

The 3500 can trailer more.

[Maverick]

I own both trucks. I have pulled my gooseneck (19K trailer w/freight) with both trucks. Both pull it just fine. The dually is more stable on corners (less sidewall flex). Thats the only difference that I feel when driving both rigs. My 3500 has more balls than my 2500HD too. Tows faster uphill.

[DonG]

Hoot, Are you sure you want to say this:

So a 2500HD can handle more than a ton . . . . more than a 3500 in the bed

Since the the GVW of the 3500 is 11,400 lbs.

Don

[moisheh]

I have owned both and after you have a dually you will NEVER go back to hauling with single wheels. Safer, more stable, no more high blood pressure. Worth it just for the peace of mind. As for carrying(not towing) capacity the 2500 does not hold a candle to a duallie. No comparison in rear axle capacity. Adding bigger tires to a single wheel truck might not help if the wheels do not have a sufficient rating.

[afp]

Yeah, duallys are fine if you are a fair weather driver on paved roads. However put that dually to some real work--like hauling a heavy load across a muddy pasture--and you'll change your mind when the space between the dually fills up with mud and the truck gets stuck.

My brother-in-law is one of many farmers/ranchers in his area who've had 4x4 (6x6?) duallys and traded them for single rear wheel 4x4 models. After the trade a common comment is "I'll never own another dually again".

They choose the the biggest "E" rated tires they can find, and tow as heavy of a load--anywhere--as they can fit on the bed of the gooseneck. We are not talking some nice stable load being pulled on paved roads. We are talking 12-16,000+ lbs of hay being drug out of the pasture, driven on a dirt road, then mabye it finally makes it to a paved road--before going on another dirt road then back into another pasture.

Blaine

[ThumbScott]

I knew I could rile some up. Like I said we sure are blessed to be able to talk about such points.

Not sure about eh afp comment about getting stuck. Yeah hi. First time pulling with my 2500hd and it was barried in my brother inlaws side yard. Same trip as the tail wagging the dog trip (bad, bad day).

The good thing with a dually is once you get them rulling there is not much that will stop them. Snow or mud. The problem with my 2500hd is too much sink in the ass end, with the dually and heavy toung weight less ass end squat.

I am in heavy farming land and the last time I checked the only non dually trucks never leave the roads. You'd last 5 minutes around here with a non drw.

As for the manhood comment. I do and would help out any friend with a load, since I am the only one that has a truck that can carry more then groceries. Closest is my Brother inlaws suburban, useless.

You know what is awesome! Any combination of Duramax/Allison trucks.

Since I have had both, I think for what this conversation was started on would be fine to have a 2500HD. Expect people to talk to you. I used to get a lot of convesation when I pulled my fiver with my 2500HD. Others just could not believe the truck would pull a 36' triple axle five.

Stability = safety.

BTW my next truck will be at least a FL50.

I have enjoyed reading others 2500HD and 3500 stories.

[EWC]

Not to muddy the waters any further , these are some specs taken from 2003 Chevy and GMC and 2002 GMC Trailering Guide sales manuals .

Gooseneck or fifth-wheel hitch
2500HD 2WD D/A 3.73 16,200 lbs max. trailer weight
3500 2WD D/A 3.73 15,600 lbs max. trailer weight
Single-rear-wheels kingpin weight : up to 2500 lbs
Dual-rear-wheels kingpin weight : up to 3500 lbs

GVWR ( Gross Vehicle Weight Rating )
All 2500HD 9200 lbs
All 3500 11,400 lbs

Payloads
2500HD 2WD reg cab 4047 lbs
3500 4WD reg cab 5559 lbs
These are reg beds and the 3500 was not listed in 2WD ?? All the 4WD carried less payloads .

Rear axle and spring capacity
2500HD 6084 lbs for axle and spring
3500 axle 8550 lbs and 9000 lbs for CC long box
spring 8600 lbs

Gross Combination Weight Rating
Duramax with auto 3.73 : 22,000 lbs
No distinction was made as to 2500HD or 3500 or 3500 dually carrying more weight , just the fact that the trucks had a D/A and 3.73 rear .

[Nixter]

If I remember correctly the 4wd front ends have a higher load capacity than the 2 wheel drives do, and it's more than enough to compensate for the extra weight. It kinda makes sense to me. I don't know anybody that plows snow with a 2 wheel drive. Personally if I was going to be towing a decent sized 5er, gooseneck, or even had a medium weight slide in camper installed I would prefer a 3500 for safety and stability. I do believe that a 2500 will get the job done. The newer 2500hds are rated as high as the older 3500 SRW models were and are competitive with 4Ds 3500 SRW. The difference is marketing language. When I replace my current set of tires I plan on going with a set that will handle more weight. I think my truck would handle a bit over 10k GVWR just fine but I wouldn't want to run that heavy very often. --Nick ;)

[alberta]

Do members of this thread noticed any difference in ride comfort between 2500 and 3500.Here in CA. on our cement interstates the ride can be uncomfortable with bounce,wheather loaded or not.This is really bad with the 1ton ford.I've noted in my 96 chevi 1ton.How does the 3/4 & 1 ton single or dully handle the hop on interstates

[a64pilot]

alberta,
Due to the higher unsprung weight the Dually will hop more and generally not ride as well as a SRW truck IMHO.

[Maverick]

Do members of this thread noticed any difference in ride comfort between 2500 and 3500. I installed the Bilsteins shocks on my 3500. I still have the stockers on my 2500HD. The 3500 rides the bumps much better with the Bilsteins and is a better ride.

Anybody,
Whats the difference between the 2500HD and 3500 Bilstein shocks? Valving? Size? I would think they would be the same size.

[Bobcat698]

Hey Maverick, could the reason your 3500 hauls faster up hill be that the dually tires are Smaller, therefore having less rolling resistance than a SRW 2500HD with bigger tires, or is there no tire size difference???

Thanks

Garrett

[Maverick]

Bobcat,
I wouldn't think so. The 19.5's are taller and wider than the stock 215's and 245's. I know I lost a couple mph after this swap pulling the same hill though. 3500 is still faster uphill. Side by side on the street with no trailers they are the same. I am getting 285's shortly on the 2500HD so I am sure it will hurt its performance uphill alittle more.
Will be in WI soon (Wausau & Green Bay). I close on my house up here by the 30th.

[JEBar]

When I was test driving 2500 & 3500 trucks, the vehicle's ride when running empty was a major concern. For us the 3500 handled the bumps and pot holes around here with a much softer shock to the spine. Found out that 2500's have 2 stage springs, hit a significiant bump and the heavy duty springs instantly react. 3500's have 3 stage springs .... hense (for us at least) a better ride ... Jim