View Full Version : When pulling drums on full floater, what all should I replace?
As I had mentioned in a prior post, I'm getting ready to do a 'slash & burn' on the brake system in my burb (95 C2500). My goal is to have every part & tool that I'll need on hand before I get started.
Mine has a full floating rear end, & I plan to replace the drums, shoes, etc. The truck has 140K on it. Being that I have to pull the axle shafts to get the drums off, what bearings, seals, etc should I plan to have on hand? Assuming costs are reasonable, I'd prefer to replace any wearable items that I'll have access to while the axle shafts are out, & I definately want to replace any seals that I'll encounter. Also, what, if any, special tools will I need. I have air tools & a press. From looking at my shop manual, it appears that I'll need a special socket to remove the bearing nut.
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but an archive search didn't turn up much. So, references to other relavent threads are appreciated as well.
Thanks,
catmandoo
12-29-2003, 06:17
big a#$ seals in there one per side,also if you have a good parts house to work with get 2 complete hardware kits,these include springs,pins,cables,and assorted parts,i can get the kits and if i don't use em i take em back.also there is a special socket for the nut but they are rather expensive for one time use,try the parts houses like auto-zone they have tools you can rent, when i was in denver a couple of years ago needed a puller and went to auto-zone and rented it and when i took it back they gave me my check back,didn't cost me anything,
Yep, I do plan to get new hardware kits, & my parts guy has 'em. I'll buy the socket if the cost is reasonable. There's a tool store near my house, & they sell a good number of knock-off versions of special tools that are decent enough for infrequent use. If it's too much $$$, I'll go to Autozone. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't any other tools/parts that I'll need before I get started.
Thanks!
Turbo Al
12-29-2003, 10:23
My 1993 has 180,000 miles on it and still has all the original rear brakes--@50% wear. So I think you may be going a little overboard. I have replaced the seals (2x) and just did the bearings at 175,000 miles when I rebuilt the entire rear end (except gears). Pickup a impact socket for the axle bolts 3/4 I think.
Al
moondoggie
12-29-2003, 11:52
Good Day!
WARNING! OBTAIN VERIFICATION OF THE FOLLOWING! I think the special socket you need for the rear axle is the same as the one needed for the FRONT axle on 1980's trucks. I own (& fortunately didn't toss out or give away) the socket to remove the front hubs on my 82, & it turned out to be exactly the right tool for the full floater on my 95. I'm sure GM didn't do this on purpose.
Blessings!
Brian Johnson, #5044
For seals, I suggest National brand as they have an extra reinforcing ring. Also, check the seal mating surface, and if pitted, a speedy sleeve is needed...
Cowracer
12-30-2003, 06:27
I was under the impression that you do not have to remove the axles to pull the brake drums.
Although, I have been wrong in the past...
Tim
catmandoo
12-30-2003, 06:39
now that you mention it on my old 82 3/4 ton sub i believe it has a lite duty rearend i think the drums just pull off of it.
There's no doubt that mine has a full floater & needs to have its axle shafts pulled. It looked that way when I pulled the wheels, & I verified it with my factory manual. Believe me, I wish I didn't have to. Even if the rears are good, I don't have any history on this truck; so I figure I'd better at least look at 'em.
Mike,
YOU DO NOT NEED TO PULL THE AXLES!!!!!
I just did my 96 K2500 Suburban and the drums come off the hubs.
You will need one ton pads for the back as the diesels step up on level in the 1/2 and 3/4 ton versions. The parts store may or may not be aware, depends on the number of diesels in the area. The parts computer gave my local parts people the wrong info.
Oh yea, the socket is the same as the old front hub socket, but again, you shouldn't need it.
Fell free to email me directly with any questions
Mike
mcooper at uaoh dot net - insert appropriate symbols
Cowracer
12-30-2003, 13:04
I think that only the millitary axles need to remove the shafts. This guy HERE (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_bible/index.html) has just about every bit of information know to man on the 14 bolt truck rearend.
He has a picture from a millitary manual showing the shafts must come out, but down below, he shows a civillian DRW axle with the drums off and the shafts still in place. He states that early (Pre 1985) had to remove the shafts, but later (post 1985) do not.
Tim
Very well done website. It's really nice for people to go to that detail in showing people how to do things. Unfortunately, I'm not that compulsive (of course I don't have that much to share, either...)
One question, however, about this mysterious special socket. Just how does it differ from the run-of-the-mill large regular sockets? Can I get a socket from, say, HarborFreight and modify it to fit or is the special socket of some truely bizarre shape?
a5150nut
12-30-2003, 22:28
Cowracer,
Thanks for the great links on disc brakes!!!
That was woth a pat on the back and two "attaboys"
G B Sisson
12-31-2003, 08:40
Happy New Year...Am planning a brake inspection next weekend.Couldnt believe this thread about full floaters.My last 2 3/4 tons had the 8 lug 'car axle'.Imagine my thrill upon removal of the plastic hubcap and finding a real truck axle. I kept it off and drove to my friend Tim's house next morning.Needless to say,he shared my enthusiam.A lengthy discussion followed about whether or not I'd need to pull axles on Saturday. Thanks all for so much info. ps I once drove to Canada to buy a non US fullfloating rear axle for my landcruiser pickup.Not many Japanese trucks around with one of those....they have 4 and 6 cyl diesels up there too,who knows?
Cowracer
12-31-2003, 08:53
Originally posted by a5150nut:
Cowracer,
Thanks for the great links on disc brakes!!!
That was woth a pat on the back and two "attaboys" Nothing says "thank you" like Cash! :D
Casey,
It is not a standard hex.
The "special socket" is round with 1/2 drive opening on one end and teeth sticking out the "business end." It fits in openings on the axle nut.
Auto Zone had the one I have, IIRC it was about $10 or so.
Mike
moondoggie
12-31-2003, 12:00
Good Day!
MikeC: When I did the rears on my 95 pickup (full floater), I had to remove the axles to get access to the nut that requires the special socket. Removing this nut allowed the drums to be removed. I can't see how it would be possible to removed the drums otherwise.
My 95 Sub has a semi-floating rear axle. I haven't looked at the rear brakes since buying this Sub, but I suspect that the brakes may be as you describe. This Sub is a 1500, but most of the parts (except the rear axle) are 2500-series - the front brakes are identical to my 95 pickup; it's GVWR is 8050 (I think), where the 2500 is 8600. Is it possible they didn't use a full floater on any of these Subs?
Blessings!
Brian Johnson, #5044
Moondoggie,
On my 96 Burban the hubs and the drums are two pieces. The way I proved this to myself, since I had unsuccessfully tried to pull them for a quick look, was to go to the local parts store and had a buddy pull a new drum. The drum was the correct one and the center was gone. This was the opening for the hub. They also had a $100+ price on the drums and $200+ on the hubs.
I am sure they are two piece on the 96 and axles can stay in place.
Made the job alot easier to not need to do all the work associated with the R&R of the axles.
Knowing how parts change though, the truck in line before and after mine could have had a different setup :rolleyes:
Mike
That page seems to be down at the moment.
MikeC- How'd you get your drums off? The hub & drum on mine appear to be seperate pieces, but the drum wouldn't budge. I tried tapping it with a brass hammer, but that didn't help. My factory manual states that the hub & drum must be removed as an assembly & then seperated, but it doesn't state how they're attached to each other. That's why I concluded that I had to remove my axle shafts. I was under the assumption that they were either bolted together from behind or press fitted to each other. I glad to hear that I'm wrong; now I just need to know how to get the damn things off. :eek:
Another thought: I'm pretty sure my truck doesn't have it's original diff. The RPO codes show that I should have a 3.73, but according to what I see on the highway, I'm pretty sure I have a 4.10. I'm wondering if it's possible that a P/O swapped in a military spec rear axle.
ANXIOUS-SUBMAN
12-31-2003, 20:23
When I pulled my drums I used a mapp gas torch to heat the area of the drum immediately around the hub to expand the metal. I didn't heat them for more than 30 seconds then I just lightly tapped them off with a hammer. Came right off.
The hub and drum are just friction fit together with a little rust for glue :D
One of mine came off with a 3lb persuader, the other took a little heat and the same hammer, oops I mean gentle drum removal device.
As a reminder, the 3/4 ton diesels take 1 ton parts in the rear. What this means is you need the 3 1/2" wide shoes, not the 2 1/2" wide ones.
Some parts counters seem to be aware but others aren't.
Mike
catmandoo
01-02-2004, 05:54
yep torch will do it,what i've found is as you heat it will pop when it does its ready.
GMCfourX4
01-02-2004, 07:56
Perhaps we should try to find out if there's a rule on what GM did with these trucks. I am certain that on my '97 the hub/drum was an assembly which was connected by the lug studs (which were pressed through both the hub and drum) and that there is no way to get the drums off without removing the axle and hub. I am running rear discs now... they're also attached to the hubs by the studs which are pressed through both. Anyone know why we all seem to have different results? :D
-Chris
Quack_Addict
01-02-2004, 10:08
The 14 bolt FF in my 1984 takes a socket similar to the older front hub sockets (with 4 prongs), but the socket I needed has 6 prongs. I transplanted this axle from a 1979 Chevy though... and GM may have changed what it takes over the years.
Quack,
I'm not sure because my tools are at home, but I think the socket I used was six point. I do know that if it had rounded pins instead of the square teeth it would have been easier to use. It now has rounded pins :D
Mike
I think mine just might come off when I put the torch to 'em. I can tell that the studs are not press fit through the holes in the drum because the holes in the drum are slightly larger than the studs.
I'm excited now; I get to save some labor AND play with fire! :cool: Thanks for everyone's input. I'll report back once I get the job done.
moondoggie
01-03-2004, 11:15
Good Day!
Guess I pulled the axles for no reason. Looks like I paid the moron tax again.
Blessings!
Brian Johnson #5044
GM did the 14 bolt FF both ways, some you have to pull the axles and hubs/drum and others the drum slides off the hub w/o removal of the axle. If you have to pull the axles then the lugs are pressed in and hold the drum to the hub. I'm sure w/research there is a break down on the yrs each were used. On my 92 I have to pull the axles.
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