View Full Version : My Truck, Totaled?
Sunday afternoon a 16-year old girl in a 1998 Dodge Ram ran a stop sign at excessive speed causing my wife to T-bone into the side of the Dodge. Our 2001 2500HD 8.1L ZF Crew Cab blew the cab of the Dodge right off the frame and threw it 200 ft. Fortunately everyone is alive. My wife and son were wearing seatbelts and my 6-year old son was in a car seat in the back. My son was unhurt physically and wife is a little black and blue. The girl had minimum insurance that will only pay out $10K in property damage. I'm currently trying to get the truck totaled and do not want it back if it's fixed. The Chevy dealer quotation is currently at $16.5K. My other main issue is that the air bags in my truck did not deploy. I'm concerned with this since the initial impact was all frontal, the passenger side damage to my truck was done by the bed of the Dodge after the initial impact. I have filed a complaint with GM.
http://www.donzi.net/photos/rstrones57.jpg
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[ 05-29-2003: Message edited by: DeepVee ]
[ 05-29-2003: Message edited by: DeepVee ]</p>
Good lord! I assume that 16 year old girl made the 200 ft. flight without the benefit of airbags as well. Hard to believe she'd be alive after that.
Also very disconcerting to hear your airbags didn't deploy. :eek:
Glad to here everyone is OK. How fast was your wife going?
I looked over a CC/SB 01 or 02 that hit something so hard the cab and box touched and damaged each other. Your front end damage is less but real close. The air bags weren't deployed either.
You and your family are truely blessed! How's the girl?
Wow, thank god everyone are alive. That must have been a real hard impact. I never seen something like this before. Sorry to hear that the air bags did not deploy but at least your wife and kid are not seriously hurt. But it is no suprise. Many other people reported the same thing that their air bags did not deploy in frontial crash. You did the right thing by filing a complaint to GM. They need a wake up call.
Looking at the damages of your truck, I agree with you. I think that truck should be totaled. Even though from the front door to the rear end of truck appears to be in good shape, I think there is too much damage to drive it again. Engine compartment is where the most critical components are for vehicles. Not only that, but the frame could be bent too and would have to be straighten out. If it get straighten out, most likely it would not be as straight as it came out of factory. In the end, Chevy wins, Dodge loses.
[ 05-29-2003: Message edited by: wxmn6 ]</p>
WOW! Glad to hear everyone is allright. That truck will be totalled. Wholesale can't be more than 18k to 20k. It doesn't make sense to fix it for 16.5k then have a truck worth 14k when its done.
Good lord !!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
YOU DON'T SEE THAT EVERYDAY....
Glad to hear everyone is ok ...The Max took it well all things considered....
Now for the Dodge,
WOW ,blew it right of the body mounts..!!! Wonder if she ever let go of the steering wheel,went right with her...
Mac
Diverguy
05-29-2003, 16:43
Hey Deepvee;
Arizona will let someone get away with only $10K of third party liability? That's really low. Here in B.C. the minumum third party liabilty is a minimum of $1 million. Did you have underinsured motorist protection on your policy? Sorry to hear about your truck. You find a vehicle you like and are comfortable and have to turn around and find another. I suppose it is a wasted effort to sue her because she does not have the money.
You know what that is low ...
CT min is 100,000 .....Smash'im up crash'im up ....
Mac :D :D :D
Colorado Kid
05-29-2003, 17:31
I'm glad your family is OK, and you should be glad that the bags did not blow...your wife would be"a little black and blue" with abrasions on her face and arms, probably at least one broken wrist and usually broken bones in both hands as a minimum if the steering wheel bag deploys. I read the reports every day. Airbag deployments are quite violent and happen so fast that the surface of the drivers eyeball is nearly always abraided if the driver wasn't wearing glasses.
If she unfastened her belt and got out under her own power then the bag should not have deployed. I know the truck looks awful, and your wife was no doubt quite shaken by the experience, but it looks to me like everything worked as you'd want it to. Just be glad the collison angle wasn't reversed, with your wife taking the impact on the side...somebody would have been hurt.
I hope your truck is totalled...it's hard to belive it could be repaired for $16,500, and I don't blame you for not wanting it back. I'll bet you'll be buying another one about like it after the job it did protecting your loved ones.
Thanks for the great comments.
I am blessed with the fact that my beautiful wife and son are here and will be fine with time. The big Chevy did a fantastic job protecting them. I'd have to agree that since they were able to basically walk away from the collision the air bags may not have been needed and may have caused more damage. I still would like GM to give me a technical response as to why the bags did not deploy.
As for the girl in the other truck. She rode out the collision in here exclusive Dodge Escape Pod. Her 22-year old male passenger was ejected at some point and slid across the asphalt and concrete. Both had no major injuries, only cuts and bruises. I honestly believe the escape pod saved her life and she would have been crushed if it had not come off.
I'll have more pictures of the accident scene tomorrow.
"She rode out the collision in here exclusive Dodge Escape Pod"
That's commercial material .....
Mac :D tongue.gif :D
Turbo Al
05-30-2003, 03:47
DeepVee: Really glad everyone made it out A.O.K.
I go to many MVA's (Fire/Rescue) and have never seen anything quite like the "escape pod"
I also feel your air bags should have deployed and would be very interested in the reason they didn't. Did you buy the truck new? There is a scam going around where they are taking air bags out of cars and selling them to repair shops and then not telling buyers that the air bags are gone.
Does anyone know what has to happen to set them off?
Colorado Kid, just did a rescue last week Dodge neon vs tree her air bag did not deploy and she suffered many of the injuries that you described, so dam ed if you do and dam ed if you don't I guess.
I have however seen first hand where air bags were a great help.
I wonder what the g-force at which the airbags deploy is? Must be pretty high...
Glad everyone made it.
Paintdude
05-30-2003, 19:35
Gm claims that the air bag sensor must be hit within 12 degrees of the front before it will deploy.
These guys over here do not believe your story or pictures. :rolleyes:
http://zrxoa.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=293293&t=8979#post293293.
[ 05-31-2003, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: Paintdude ]
Here are a lot more pictures.
http://photos.yahoo.com/steveonot
A few important things I'd like to say. My wife and son survived this accident relatively unharmed because they had their seatbelt on. My 6-year old son was in a booster seat in the back seat and suffered no injuries at all.
Chevrolet has been very responsive to my complaint about the air bags not deploying. A GM engineer called last week and we talked through the dynamics of the accident. GM has given me what I wanted, a technical response as to why the air bags did not deploy. There is a good chance the bags would have done more harm than good. The engineer gave me the following web sites for reference.
www.gmairbags.com (http://www.gmairbags.com)
www.actsinc.org (http://www.actsinc.org)
I'm not posting pictures to brag, only want to educate those who are interested.I'm not happy that my truck blew the Dodge to pieces. I would have prefered the accident never happened, but it did and as a result of this I will never own a Dodge. I'll be at the front of the line when GM opens the doors up for 2004 orders.
[ 06-02-2003, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: DeepVee ]
Cancerman
06-02-2003, 13:15
DeepVee,
It looked like your underhood light was on in the photos at the storage lot.
I can't believe nobody disconnected the battery.
Turbo-Al isn't disconnecting the battery SOP by responders to prevent fire?
The brackets on the Dodge did not look very damaged. Maybe the bolts that they use are Chinese specials!
This was really a miracle that no one was seriously injured or killed.
When I arrived on the scene my wife was still in the truck and it still had power. I informed the Fire & Rescue guys and was told the battery cables had been cut. I then had to explain to them that the truck had two batteries and they'd better cut the hot wire from the other. I showed them where the second hot wire was and was told that they do not cut the hot and only cut the ground. They then cut the ground. Well guess what? The next day the truck still had power in the tow lot. :confused:
[ 06-02-2003, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: DeepVee ]
Oh man, those firefighers have no idea what they are doing!!!! Myself as a firefighter, when I go to auto accident and if the vehicle is badly damaged to be driven again before a major repair or is totaled, ALWAYS cut the ground wire(s) first!! If there are dual batteries, just like your "totaled" truck, all ground wires at each battery must be cut first before cutting any positive wires!!
It sounds like the firefighter there cut only one ground wire at one battery, but did not cut the other battery ground wire. So that's probably explain why the under hood light is still on.
Deep Vee, I'm glad that your family was not seriously injured! I'm curious to know if one of your truck batteries was displaced enough to make the negative post come in contact with the firewall? Did one of the batteries get pierced with a metal body part? If so, perhaps the battery got its ground from this metal contact. In the event that the battery was pierced there was probably a leak of battery acid. As everyone knows, battery acid can release hydrogen gas. If the battery was grounded when the positive cable was cut, this could cause an electrical arc. The hydrogen gas could explode or cause a fire. Is it possible to set off the air bags with a voltage spike on a damaged air bag sensor? Perhaps leaving the battery alone for the time being was the safest thing to do. However, if this was a mistake by the Fire company, I'm sure that they would appreciate the opportunity to turn this situation into a positive training scenario. I have some very close friends that are Professional Firefighters. They take great pride in doing the best job that they can. Again thank God that this accident was not worse. smile.gif smile.gif
[ 06-03-2003, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: 10851 ]
FirstDiesel
06-03-2003, 04:39
Those poor boys over on the D^^ge list just can't believe that the pictures are real. They are falling over over themselves making up excuses. Like it's bad that the D^^ge had damage after a crash like that. :rolleyes:
I mean really, suck it up and admit that your truck would have problems after a major accident!
Professor
06-06-2003, 11:29
Doubt if they would believe this one either!
http://www.padgham.biz/douglas_crash1.jpg
SparkyTX
06-06-2003, 12:56
I just got an opportunity to see this post and wanted to chime in with the others in saying thank goodness no one was hurt too seriously. Seeing the pics of your cab give me a warm fuzzy. That cab is in impecable shape, considering the forces at work during the collision. The best thing in this accident is probably that it was two full size trucks. Imagine if either of those vehicles were replaced by a typical sedan. Someone would probably be dead.
Thank goodness that wasn't the case.
JimWilson
06-07-2003, 14:03
Holy crap, and everyone walked away?! Man, that truly is a miracle. Makes you realize just how fast it can all end.
Hope everyone is still doing well.
Insurance company has decided not to total my truck. The local Chevrolet dealer has my truck and will do all the repairs. Current estimate is between $16,500 and $18,000.
I'm currently waiting on order & pricing information for a 2004. As soon as I get the info I'm ordering a new truck and selling or trading in this one. Even though they'll probably fix it right I don't want it.
Now the big question, Should I upgrade from the 8.1L to a Duramax? I'll be sticking with the ZF 6-speed.
Originally posted by DeepVee:
[QB] Insurance company has decided not to total my truck. The local Chevrolet dealer has my truck and will do all the repairs. Current estimate is between $16,500 and $18,000 I'm willing to bet HAD your airbags blown, they would have totaled it, thats an extra $3k to $5k. You might let GM know that you are NOT happy with the fact the bags didnt blow and you now feel uncomfortable driving this truck. May even be a reason for a buy back????
DeepVee,
Your truck is a contructive total loss. I would
not have it repaired under ANY circumstances.
There will be supplemental issues come up
after repairs which will tie your truck up .
Also, the market value of your repaired truck will be
diminished because of the extent of damage. You
will do much better if you total this truck out.
I'd fight this one tooth and nail with your insurance
adjuster. Have them pull off the
sheet metal to see ALL the damage. Just little
things like recoating the frame is going to bump
the cost of repairs up. There will be other things
like scratches on the other seemingly "undamaged" panels.
Are they going to repaint your engine compartment?
What about all the possible mechanical damage.....
how in the world do they know what really need
to be repaced after in impact such as this.
You might even have damage the wiring
harness and other hidden components.
Any damage to your interior? Go over this
wrecked truck with a fine tooth comb and
make sure that that all possible issues
are included in the estimate.
Find yourself an advocate..... have another independent
body shop take a look. I was an auto adjuster for State
Farm for 10 years and if we saw a borderline total.... I
totaled it for the benefit of both the customer
and the company.
You can get some hard ass adjuster or an
incompetent adjuster making some very poor
decisions. The dealer's body shop has nothing
to lose by doing repairs. They make money
and you end up with a problem truck.
Also, in determining a contructive total loss,
the salvage value of the wreck is an important
factor in the calculations. Add up all the salvagable
items on the truck (inc. engine and body parts)
to determine the salvage value.
A constructive total loss means the cost to both repair and
salvage value of the wrecked truck equals or exceeds the total
value of the property at the time of loss. Do your homework as the insurance company
will probably not be working in your best
interests.
Please feel free to call me if you have any
questions. (831) 688-0423
[ 06-10-2003, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: 56Nomad ]
Paintdude
06-11-2003, 06:51
The part about resale value is very true. you can force them to pay you the resale loss difference in cash. It is generally 15% of the vehicle value at time of loss. Also once they know you have concerns like this, that may change thier whole attitude about fixing the unit..
you can also talk to the dealer about trading the truck in while it is being repaired. This way you do not have to do without a vehicle while repairs are being done.
Good Luck..
DeepVee,
How is it going..... ? Any progress?
My insurance company, USAA, still refuses to total my truck. Retail on the truck is listed at $27K-$28K in Arizona. The original repair estimate from the Chevrolet dealer was $16,500. USAA's independent appraiser estimated the job at $14,000. USAA tells me the repair cost must reach 80% of retail to total the truck.
My local Chevrolet dealer is now in the process of fixing the truck and tells me the final bill will be close to $18,000. I talked to USAA again today, they are still using the $14K estimate and assured me they're in constant contact with the dealership on the repairs and suplements.
I've looked at the truck twice this week. All the new parts are from GM with the exception of the front bumper and wheels which will be reconditioned parts. There are so many new parts that I would have trouble listing them all. Basically everything on the front of the truck will be new, including some bolt-on engine stuff. The dealer is doing it right and they know that I'm watching their work.
Again, as I've stated before we will not be keeping this truck and will sell or trade it in on an ordered 2004. The dealer fixing the truck tells me they'll do whatever it takes to get me to order from them. If they don't give what I want then I'll go back to the dealer in Phoenix where I ordered the 01'.
I also talked to USAA about "diminished value" on the truck and asked if I will be compensated. Their response was "NO, diminished value is not for real". They are certainly aware of it though and I know they have paid cliams on it in the past. I will cross this bridge if and when I get there. The dealership is telling me diminished value will not be an issue on my trade-in, but we'll see on that one.
Thanks for your help guys. You comments got me fired up the other day and my insurance company certainly heard about it.
In the end my truck just seems to be worth too much money, I paid $31K for it 2.5 years ago and it's still worth $27K-$28K.
I'm documenting the repair with pictures and will have some up in the next few weeks. Next week though I'm flying to Maryland to pick up my father's 1971 Chevrolet 1-ton Longhorn pickup with a BB 402, 4-speed & 60,000 original miles.
[ 06-13-2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: DeepVee ]
DeepVee,
Any claim for "diminished value" will be against
the negligent driver of the other vehicle
If indeed it becomes an issue, you will need to
document your loss of diminished value, typically
with letters from reputable dealers.
The only other way to approach this problem
of totaling your truck is if any of the repairs might
compromise the "safety" of your truck. Those
being brakes, suspension or handling issues.
Will your dealer completely warrenty "all" repairs?
Also, once your insurance company has decided to
go forward with repairs...... and lets say they find
another $3000 in supplemental repairs, even though it
goes over the top, they still will continue to
fix it.
So the long and short of it:
1. If all goes well, your truck will be fixed properly and you'll
be able to trade it.
2. If there is a case for diminished value, you need
to prove your damages against the negligent party.
3. If there are any safely issues in fixing your truck
then your insurance should total the truck
even if on paper, it can be repaired.
Good luck
My truck repairs are almost complete. The radiator has been the biggest hold up. GM has sent several radiators out and all have been wrong, incorrect fitting for the oil cooler.
The frame has been straightened. They seem to have done a good jod but we'll find out for sure when they try to align it.
All new front sheet metal, 2 new front wheels & tires, new passengers side suspension & axle, etc. etc. etc.
They're telling me now that 2004 orders will be opened up on July 10th. Not sure if I'll order right away or wait til after the first of the year and hope for 0% financing on the 04's.
Here's some pictures of the repair work.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/steveonot/lst?.dir=/Repair+2500HD&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/
sonofagun
07-01-2003, 09:54
DeepVee,
First thank the Lord that all are well.
USAA will repair the truck. Whatever the dealer tells them they need to do USAA will generally do. I've had several vehicles repaired under the guidelines and they don't scrimp on getting it right.
I just sold my 2001 2500HD (SLT 4WD crew cab with 30,000 miles) for $32K so they really do hold the value.
I have already placed an order for a 2004 3500 so They are taking orders now and don't seem to have any holds on building them that I could find. Take the dealer up on his word about a trade in and see what they offer. My dealer offered me $26,500 on trade. Go out and get some comparative listings for similiar trucks (i.e autotrader.com) and ask your dealer to document what he would sell a like equiped truck for on his lot. Check KBB.com for a private party value. Follow 56nomad's advise and go after the other insurance company for the difference on your trade. Since you were planning to upgrade anyway, right?, this has really cost you money! You MUST tell a new buyer about the damage, right? Who would pay top dollar after seeing those pictures, no matter how good the fix?
It can't hurt to try, though it will be a pain in the A**. Ask USAA if they can help you pursue this claim against the other insurance co.
Tough way to trade up but good to know how our trucks fair in a really serious wreck.
Good luck,
Bob
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