View Full Version : 6spd Flywheel problems
Timberline
04-11-2004, 03:48
The flywheel has just started making the dreaded noise and I have noticed after doing a search on this site I noticed that some of you have had up to 3 flywheels replaced just to have the problem come back. I took the truck into my dealer and they recommened that I hold off because GM is about to come out with a real fix for this problem and if they do replace the flywheel with the same type that the problem will return. The dealership did say that it will not hurt anything if I drive it in this condition and this is where I need to hear what your experiences have been. I am a bit nervous about driving it while it is having this problem esspecially since it has a load 75% of the time.
My question is to any of you who have had this problem have you driven it for any period of time and has the flywheel caused any problems down the line like clutch, throwout bearing and transmission bearings etc....and how can a this flywheel make any noise?
[ 04-12-2004, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Timberline ]
DmaxCC6spd
04-12-2004, 05:28
Please keep those few of us with manuals updated on your progress. Did you have the hard pedal issue too, or just the noise?
Thanks.
Timberline
04-12-2004, 16:55
I will keep you posted on my progress. The only problem that I have had is the noise from the flywheel. When the noise first started I just knew it had to be a throwout bearing because of the way it acts. But after the dealer visit and searching this site it is the dual mass flywheel, I am going to make them replace the throwout bearing and clutch when the flywheel is replaced.
Timberline, Im taking in my 6 spd today for flywheel problems. Im eager to see if I get a story similar to what you got about a new fix.
Timberline
04-15-2004, 17:19
VA_Dmax, I am curious as to what they told you about your problem.
Enquiring minds want to know. smile.gif
Timberline, the whole story is posted in the GMC vs Chevy Warranty Work, but dealer basically is saying its the tensioner and serpintine belt :rolleyes: We will see on Monday, parts are supposed to be in tomorrow and Im dropping it off again Monday. What symptoms are you having with the bad flywheel? Just curious if mine are similar. Thanks
speedybt
04-16-2004, 01:31
I'm also having problems, clutch sliping,noise etc
every time I take it in they say "we couldn't get it to slip, nobody else is having problems
2003 d-max,crew cab,dually,3500,6spd w/4" exhaust,AFE 4" intake, Edge box supposed to be around 486 hp and 802 FT. LBs Torque
I don't have a sliping problem with the box unpluged but the noise is still there
and I've never had the pedal problem either.
I've been looking for aftermarket clutch set-ups
Does anyone have any suggestions?
DmaxCC6spd
04-30-2004, 05:23
Can we get an update?
I have a Chevy 3500 Duramax Chassis Cab with the 6 speed manual transmission (and a 3 yd landscaper dump bed upfit). I had the clutch flywheel/throwout bearing assembly replaced at 29,500. Current mileage is 35,500. The "growling noise" returned recently, so I took the truck in to my dealership to have it diagnosed and repaired. Here's the news...
They would perform no repairs, because there is a "PI" (#PI00908E) (the precursor to a Technical Service Bulletin) out on this problem. It describes the problem and states in part:
"1. No repairs should be performed at this time.
2. There are no long term durability issues associated with this condition.
3. An uddated dual mass flywheel is currently under engineering development.
This PI will be updated accordingly as more information is received."
My dealer advised my to keep watch for the TSB, and when it arrives I can schedule for the repair.
CPMac632
05-18-2004, 07:54
Out of all the flywheels I have seen fail only two actually broke in half. Most of the time when they start rattling when depressing the clutch they get replaced before they break. One of the flywheels that broke in half never made any noise before that happened. If you are using your truck I would try to get them to replace it so you don't end up walking.
Without warning and after sitting in the parking lot all day, the clutch pedal was limp and no clutch action at all. GM said it was not covered under warranty (I find out later it is covered) and AAMCO towed me in and replaced the flywheel. They suggested replacing the P-Plate, throw out bearing and associated stuff because "if the other stuff was dammaged by the flywheel and I don't replace it now, I'll have to pay labor later to do then what they can do now".
$1,100 later and one year later... no problems. They showed me where the internal springs in the flywheel had failed and the hardship getting the heavy flywheel into position and getting the planets aligned with the stars...whatever.
I had no noise what-so-ever.
Mike
I was told that the noise was normal operation and that they wouldnt replace the flywheel until it had a complete failure (seperation). Someone please post when the TSB comes out. This is driving me crazy knowing that the clock is ticking and it could give out at any time while Im driving. Most likely when Im pulling since thats when its working the hardest. Then Im stranded with a trailer or camper.
So , I bought a 96 diesel because I had very good service from my 80 and 82 diesel.
Turns out the electronic injector pump is crap,
dealer also gives me crap.
So , I hear DURMAX , YES, with six speed.
YES YES YES, I read these posts,
NO NO NO, I guess GM is really turned to Cr*P.
( mY 97 BUICK IS NOT AS GOOD AS MY 90 WAS EITHER )
iS THERE A TREND THERE,
Thats how the Japs took over in the 70-80's...
Please Toyota, A REAL 1 ton DIESEL PICK UP
1BADDMAX
06-13-2004, 09:01
I've noticed that if I don't leave the clutch in when shutting down my flywheel makes a terrible noise. I always shutdown with the clutch in. No noise or problems in 81k miles. A friend of mine drove the truck the other day and shut it off without using the clutch and it sounded like ass!
Wow Whats up with GM. I have a 2001 2500HD duramax allison trany. I have had trouble with the trany from the first time i got stuck. Still having problems with the trans and the dealer.
I love the duramax and was looking at a six speed manual. But after looking at this, looks like the manual is just as bad.
To much computer junk on the new trucks .
Colorado Kid
06-15-2004, 11:05
I guess I'm at the opposite extere from VA D-max. I took my truck in because I'm about out of 36,000 miles and I wanted the dealer to take a shot at elliminating the creak in the clutch pedal the the cold draft on the passenger's feet in the wintertime (the source of another constant whining sound) ;) Also I had noticed the fluid level in the clutch reserviour dropping slowly over the last 10,000 miles . . .it had finally dropped below the Minimum mark.
I got my truck back after a week (oops, we ordered the wrong slave cylinder) with the heater box reseal accomplished (as expected), a new clutch slave cylinder (not unexpected) and a new pressure plate and flywheel (Say WHAT? :confused: ) Also, though not documented, the spring is AWOL from the clutch pedal assembly. Story is that the tech test drove the truck to assess the leaky airbox and squeaky clutch and, as 1BADDMAX observed, he shut it down from idle in nuetral without drpessing the clutch, and heard the dreaded clatter. He looked it up and found the fix, ordered the parts and installed them all without even talking to me. Since I didn't have to pay a penny, make an extra trip to the dealership or even wait longer because of the additional work, I'm not upset, but I sure was surprised!
Between the new parts and the missing spring the clutch feels quite a bit different . . . my 6 year old son who rode with me when I picked the truck up told me I was driving like mom as I lurched out of the parking place. redface.gif New clutch is grabbier and engages closer to the floor. . . that's my story and I'm sticking to it! :D
ColoradoKid Please have your dealer call my dealer!! :D I sent off the comment form yesterday on the work that fixed nothing. Hoping someone calls from GM. Colorado, what time frame was that when you had yours replaced? Im wondering if GM issued something recently saying not to replace the flywheel anymore unless they completely fail? I posted in my other post asking if anybody knew for sure the bulletin number that covered the flywheel. I had PI00908. Anybody know if thats right? Thanks
quadrunner500
06-15-2004, 19:38
I have 44,000 miles on my 2001 Duramax ZF-6spd, and got the dreaded growling when depressing the clutch partway in neutral.
Took it in to the dealer in Englewood Colorado, and they called back with the diagnosis, dual mass flywheel, and "No Repairs should be performed at this time, an updated dual mass flywheel is currently under engineering development."
The advisor indicated they would replace it, but I should wait for the updated flywheel, since I have continuing coverage under the 5 years 100,000 engine warranty.
But it's been 3 months since that bulletin came out, and I've had this truck 3 years and been reading about the dual mass flywheel problem for at least a year maybe more. GM has known about this problem, and my concern is they aren't going to do anything until they have to. Put differently, I got 3 years out of the first one, if they replace with another of the current defective flywheels, my engine warranty expires before the certain eventuality of the 2nd flywheel goes bad, or I could try and live with the current problem up until near the end of warranty, and get it replaced at that time, or before if they have the updated flywheel available.
Or I could just unload the truck and chalk it up to "should have known better than buy another GM."
And how much did the bean counters save putting in the squeaky plastic clutch pedal hanger instead of a proper metal one? Sheesh...
As some of you may remember, I had the flywheel replaced in my truck two years ago because of a vibration at idle (while sitting at stop lights etc.) I never had any noise or anything like what others have described here.
I now have 72,000 Kms on the truck and there are no problems so far with the replaced flywheel. I was told at the time that it was an updated flywheel so I would have to assume that it was supposed to be a "permenant" fix.
I'm still very satisfied with my 6 speed. :D :D :D
Colorado Kid
06-16-2004, 07:04
Originally posted by VA_Dmax:
ColoradoKid Please have your dealer call my dealer!! :D I sent off the comment form yesterday on the work that fixed nothing. Hoping someone calls from GM. Colorado, what time frame was that when you had yours replaced? Im wondering if GM issued something recently saying not to replace the flywheel anymore unless they completely fail? I posted in my other post asking if anybody knew for sure the bulletin number that covered the flywheel. I had PI00908. Anybody know if thats right? Thanks I picked the truck up last Friday (6/11/04).
The very criptic invoice says,
"CHECK CAUSE OF NOISE IN CLUTCH
CAUSE: DPRESSURE PLAT WILL NOT RELEASE PROPERLY (Their spelling, not mine :eek: )
J1420 FLYWHEEL (MANUAL TRANSMISSION?TRANSAXLE REPLACE
1347WGTMW (N/C)
1 15019756 CYLINDER (N/C)
1 12582859 PLATE (N/C)
1 14018700 BOLT (N/C
FC: 3P
PART# 12582859
COUNT: 3
CLAIM TYPE:
AUTH CODE:
NG
PARTS: 0.00 LABOR 0.00 Other 0.00 TOTAL LINE: 0.00
TEST DROVE TO VARIFY. FOUND SLAVE CYLINDER AND P RESSURE PLATE NOT RELEASING.REMOVED TRANSMISSIO N AND REPLACED PRESSURE PLATE AND SLAVE CYLINDE R"
What that all means to me is :confused:
The Service Advisor said they replaced the flywheel, clutch and slave cylinder . . . I was surprised and questioned him about it and he reviewed the above gibberish and confirmed, "Yep, flywheel, pressure plate and slave cylinder."
Personally, since I don't see anything that looks like a part number callout for the flywheel I'm beginning to think it wasn't replaced.
Back in December (truck had about 69k miles) I had my slave cylinder, throw out bearing and flywheel replaced. I was loosing clutch hydraulic fluid and had the dreaded rattle.
After the repair everything worked great ... until about a month ago. The truck now has 86k miles and I'm loosing fluid again and the *$%# rattle is back. I love the truck and the manual, but this is getting to be a pain in the a$$ :mad: .
I haven't contacted the dealer yet, I was waiting to see if anyone had any additional info on the replacement flywheel. I have a lot of faith in the dealer and know he will take care of the problem. My biggest concern is the 100k mile mark is rapidly approaching!
MaxRock
[ 06-17-2004, 05:47 AM: Message edited by: MaxRock ]
I hope nobody gets the wrong impression with my posts. I still think the Duramax motor is the best diesel out there and I dont have a single complaint about the ZF 6 speed. I just dont think a great job was done to tie the two together. If I bought a new one tomorrow it would be the Dmax and the ZF because its a awesome combo. Just wish the dealers in the area would step up to the plate. I was told by the first dealer that the noise was exhaust shields rattling? :confused: And I was told by the second dealer that the problems I am having are normal operation (gear lash?) of the ZF. But in contacting ZF and performing the minor tests they gave me, the culprit is the clutch and/or flyhweel. Because Im only 20k miles in, I dont want to fork out from my own pocket to have an aftermarket flywheel installed. Or pay from pocket at a trans shop to have the problem fixed. My only complaint is with the level of service, or lack of, that Im getting.
VA_Dmax,
I understand your pain. I feel the same way about the truck. I love the truck, the engine and the transmission combination. I do believe that GM should have known better than use the dual mass flywheel (DMF). F*#d started using a very similar setup a few years before GM and had the same problems.
I'm fortunate that my dealer is very knowledgeable and understands the problems. I would like to wait as long as possible before getting the work done ... again, hoping that GM has a "new and improved" solution before long. I will hate to have to replace the DMF on my own nickel ... every few 10k miles or so!!! :mad:
MaxRock
If the flywheel is banging around, what happens
to the life of the crank , bearings and rear seal????
quadrunner500
06-17-2004, 11:36
My sentiments exactly, VA_Dmax.
But another concern is that GM itself is stalling, and not really working on an updated part. I read about this problem long before it happened to me, exactly as they said it would.
So how can I believe otherwise when I know they've known, because I've known?
quadrunner500
06-17-2004, 11:42
My experience also with ZF, is that they are very conscientious and take pride in the ZF-6, naturally concerned that poor pairing of the Duramax to the ZF-6spd by the clutch and flywheel is out of their control, yet still potentially taints consumer perceptions and acceptance of manual transmissions.
rjwest, those were my exact comments to the service writer. The quickest way to fatigue a crankshaft is to have a flywheel thats all messed up and imbalanced. It didnt seem to concern him as much as it did me. :confused:
I don't know about you guys but when driving my work truck, 2000 F350 utility 6spd, I dont use the clutch while shifting up or down. maybe you guys should try that if you think your good enough. A word of caution when speed downshifting you have raise the rpms to the right speed or else your tranny will make some noise :eek:
82Beast,
I've had manual transmission trucks since '79 and have shifted w/o the clutch since then. I believe not using the clutch helps, my initial DMF failure happened at 65K miles while most happen at 20 to 30K miles.
The DMF is a bad design and will not last for the long haul. The DMF is the weak link in the drivetrain and GM needs to correct the design.
MaxRock
Do you think they have some torsional vibration with the engine that required some kind of " magic " flywheel damping that the auto converter would normally suppres??? Otherwise why go to the trouble
of trying to make something so complicated to do
such an simple task....Or was it just a " Noise " Issue.
I Had 1 of the first 82 diesels with a std shift...
Did rattle a lot in neutral,
But went 230 k miles trouble free.
Really wanted a new 6 speed durmax, but can't see buying a " Known Problem"
Stopped by to see the GM fleet Sales Rep.
Asked about the std shift clutch problem, HE SAID " AIN'T NO PROBLEM " Sure.
rjwest, I should ask the people at ZF I spoke with. I have heard before that ZF asked GM to use a dual mass between their trans and the diesel. But Ford is using the same ZF now, but I dont think they have a dual mass. Let me try and contact ZF again, and see if I can find out why the dual mass is used, and if its something they wanted.
quadrunner500
08-11-2004, 07:56
I just got word of some relief from my dealer. My service advisor tells me GM has released an updated part for the dual mass flywheel problem, and has ordered it for me. Said it's on backorder, don't know when, hopefully not too long, will notify me when in.
X fingers crossed X
for anybody intrested gm does have a new flywheel part#24232434 from bullition #04-07-31-006 released aug 31 04
I had my second dual-mass flywheel installed (the re-engineered version) several weeks ago. Within a few days, the shifting became hard---impossible. Couldn't get it into gear. Returned to dealer, and after several days I learned that the clutch, pressure plate and pilot bearing had also been re-engineered. The dealership had not been informed of this while they had the truck the first time. They are now frantically trying to track down the parts nationwide.
Thank goodness that it's a warranty repair!
Hey guys, I don't know how much this relates to some of your problems,but I talked to a ex State Trooper that has a 2003 d-max with the 6-speed.I asked him if he had been having any problems with his 2WD crewcab and he told me this story.He pulls a 32' dual pullout 5th wheel with his truck.He told me it was on its 2nd clutch including the latest thing from GM.(He had been having the clutch pedal to the floor, not working, in town, or on the freeway,loaded or not problem.)This latest repair didn,t work either.What finally fixed it,after deciding that the clutch fluid line was too close to the exhaust manifold or pipe and the dealer said it was vapor locking.They wrapped the line and installed a cooler behind the grill for the fluid.He just returned from a trip across the northern and western U.S. with no problems pulling the trailer.He said that was his second long trip w/o problems since the repair.He said he loves his truck now that he can depend on it.Has anyone else had this done ?......Lineman
Makes me happy I:
Got the 8.1L.
Got the Allison.
Never been to the dealer for anything. :eek:
Just the gas station. ;) ...... Lineman
Better than watching my local tech get to drive the truck I paid for more than me... smile.gif
More Power
10-14-2004, 14:01
Some new info on a revised FW, clutch & pressure plate assembly can be found in the new article on the ZF S6-650 Six-Speed (http://www.thedieselpage.com/duramax/ZFS-650.htm).
MP
Timberline
10-21-2004, 10:53
Update: I will get my truck back today with teh new corrected Flywheel. The dealer has had my flywheel in stock for 2 weeks now but this is the first chance I had to leave it with them.
I have my fingers crossed that this is the real fix.
trailguide2u
10-23-2004, 10:14
Been awhile since I have logged on. But anyhow I had my truck at the dealer for 5 weeks back in Aug/Sept BACK ORDER. Lost my clutch no warnings gone.. They tried to fix it by replacing the clutch master and slave clylinder --nope. Now I have the "new" fly wheel, clutch, master and slave cylinder and TRANNY COOLER. I have been told that the oil cooler is not warranty item. I will fight that battle if it comes up--IT BETTER NOT. The clutch is touchy and is a little stiffer. When backing up and hooking up trailers or whatever the truck is not smooth as before. It seems that this clutch likes to be totally engaged or disengaged. The shifts are harder also-- meaning it feels more like a after market preformance clutch. So far so good I have not check to see the color of clutch fluid yet. By the way the mechanic told me that the old clutch parts looked new still.
Trailguide,Keep fighting em.I asked my buddy if he was charged for the cooler install.He said that there was no charge,but he don't know if the dealer ate the cost or if GM did.Keep us informed !.......Lineman
trailguide2u
10-28-2004, 10:58
Lineman-- I was not clear on my post. Everything was warrantied but I was told they would not cover the cooler from any defects---ever. Do to the fact it was not a GM part ect. It's BS they installed it they will fix it.
Trailguide, sorry that I did't read it right! I hope it fixes your problem.Keep us posted....Lineman
trailguide2u
11-03-2004, 17:51
Lineman --I will keep ya posted...
Thanks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.