2800 pound king pin weight into a 2500HD?

[wheeler]

Hey everybody-- would like to move into 2003 2500HD 4x4 CC... I'm pulling a 30 fifth wheel trailer.

Trailer weighs 12,700 pounds so I'm figuring the truck's GCWR at 22,000 pounds will not be a problem.

Question: What does an unloaded four wheel drive crew cab 2500 HD weigh and then subtracting this from the 9200 GVWR, what's the payload capacity ? What concerns me is not going over the truck's GVWR.

FYI, I'm not asking IF the truck can pull this weight-- I'm sure it can and more. I'm concerned about safety and specifically civil or criminal liability .

I have heard of law enforcement and insurance companies weighing rigs after an accident... pursuing criminal charges and denying insurance coverage, etc. Don't want to risk it.

Unfortunately, a dually (3500HD) will not work for me... any word on a GM SRW 3500 like the recent announcement from D***E?

Thanks! --wheeler

[Diesel Dad]

In my experience, not even close. My 2001 Chevy Silverado 2500HD LT D/A CC SB weighed in at 7000 lbs. with no passengers. Even without passengers, you would be 800 lbs. over the GVWR.

The only accessories I had were Trailback running boards, Reese 16K Kwik Slide hitch, Rhino Liner and Roll-n-Lock.

So, I sold the 2500HD and bought a 3500. Would have preferred to keep the SRW but the dooley is really stable and rides better than the 2500HD did. See my sig for pictures of the rig.

Ford and Dodge both offer 9900 lb. GVWR SRWs. Not sure what the actual truck weighs, but the extra 700 lbs. capacity might make the difference.

Regards.

[csimo]

My '02 D/A CC SB weighs 6820 pounds with fuel.

I pull a 30' fiver as well with no problems. Yours is heavier than mine... I max out at 10,000 for the trailer.

[wheeler]

Thanks Todd and csimo for the input-- yeah, that's kind of what I figured about payload in a 2500HD -- by the numbers that is.

Todd, thanks for posting the great photos of the 2003 trucks & mirrors-- I'm currently using the PowerVision extending mirrors and they look identical to what GM is using for their extending trailer mirrors in 2003.

By the way, Todd, you live in snow country, right? Have you driven a dually in snow yet? That's part of my hesitation to go to 3500... I live in mountain Pacific Northwest and when not hauling the fifth wheel I need the truck to be an everyday driver in the winter-- and people have told me to avoid the dually in snow if possible... thanks again! --wheeler ;)

[Diesel Dad]

Haven't driven the 3500 in the snow yet, but I don't expect any problems. Look at the number of commercial trucks with doolies that are fine in the winter. I had been told that doolies didn't ride well on gravel either and that turned out to be a non-issue.

The truck has Michelin XPS Ribs which are great highway tires but don't look like they have enough tread for snow, so I may need to buy snow tires, at least for the rear.

I had Bridgestone Blizzak W965 snow tires for my 2500HD and they were great. I'd look at the same tires for the 3500 if / when the need arises. I also added 400 lbs. of sand bags which were mandatory for 2WD winter driving.

[David Utz]

2500 HD, D/A, CC,Long bed, running boards, 15K 5th wheel hitch, Rhino liner, 34 gal. of diesel, and me (280 lbs)---7540 lbs. (4380 on the front and 3160 on the rear). That leaves me 2648 lbs. for the kingpin. Try moving some of the weight to the back of the trailer. You need 15% to 25% of the weight on the king pin.(1905 lbs to 3175 lbs). You are about 22% which is in range, but to the nose heavy side.

[IndigoDually]

I've been driving dually's in the snow for as long as I have been driving. I would not rule out a dually if that is your only apprehension. With all of my trucks I have added some ballast for the wintertime. I have been plowing snow with extended cab and crew cab dually's along with my 2wd 3500HD. All you need is a little weight and the duals are not an issue. I have been plowing in the worst snow I have ever been in with my '97 and the truck pushed a blade full of snow with the blade up and the truck was up to the rocker panels in snow. 6 tires gives you more places to find traction and I like know the debates of contact pressure of less tires but the tires on a 2500 will be wider and it all kinda balances out.

Hope I answered your question without too much confusion.

John

[Kennedy]

I seriously doubt there would be a problem. FYI, my CC long bed is about 7100# with about 1/4 tank of fuel.

I added 1 leaf to the main pack and have carried 3k in the bed as well as pulling a 17k stack (pic available) of open trailers at 13'2" tall.

I guess it comes down to what the LAW will allow...

[DDD70]

Check glove compartment for max camper
weight,
2500hd ext 4x4 D/A short box is rated at
1998 lbs
3500 ext 2WD long box is rated at 3980 lbs.
IMHO, this should compute for 5th pin and
all other extras -driver, passanger and all
other goodies put in truck

[wheeler]

Hey Guys, thanks very much for your input about driving the 3500 in snow and about loading the 2500HD. I appreciate it very much.

Regarding the law and exceeding the GVWR, it's a sticky issue I'm still trying to sort out. Last Fall I telephoned five different offices and agencies in my home state of Idaho-- trying to find out the answer to this question. Not one person in any office suggested the vehicle's GVWR was "the law" I had to comply with as an RVer-- in fact one officer suggested GVWR was at once just a guideline and a manufacturers' marketing and liability/warranty limiting tool but by no means was I compelled to adhere to it.

Even so, I keep reading on RV-related websites peoples' experiences saying law enforcement and insurance representatives are weighing rigs after accidents looking for signs of (criminal?) negligence and a reason to deny coverage.

My next step is to call my insurance company and ask them how they feel about owners having to adhere to GVWR... don't know the answer yet but logically it seems easier/cheaper for that industry to say "Yes you must comply in order to maintain coverage."

Looking around, many people tow over the GVWR without a second thought. I keep my equipment well maintained, I don't drink & drive, I'm conservative, I pay attention.. to me it seems there are so many other more disturbing ways to drive unsafe or negligently.

Heaven forbid you or I would ever cause an accident... and as terrible as that alone would be, for my part I would not want to be in the undesirable position of trying to prove I was not negligent by having knowingly decided to tow over the manufacturer's GVWR-- even if this number seems arbitrary to me or if it is a marketing tool, or if I hesitate to drive a dooley. Sticky wicket. Cheers, guys, and thanks. --wheeler :rolleyes:

[8.1PWR]

Wheeler you can do like I did and put a set of 3500 springs under the 2500HD. If you have the 11 1/4 inch rear end they bolt right in. Worked wonders for the ride with my camper. Back end still sits up a little with the camper pretty level with the horse trailer. The tires are the limiting factor now.

[GBurton]

wheeler
If you decide that you are comfortable with the 2500HD as your tow vehicle there is one more item that you might want to consider, replace your tires. The max load rating for one of the stock 245 tires just happens to be exactly one half of the rear axle gross weight rating. I changed my tires to Michelin 265 and gained several hundred pounds of tire rating. I know that does not change the ratings that were assigned by the factory but it does help keep your tires with in their rating. Also someone on here did some research on the axle that is used in our 2500HD trucks and it has a rating of around 10,000 pounds. My point is if you change your tires to a good quality 265 tire, you will increase the tire payload capacity and reduce the chance of a tire problem caused by tire overloading.

Just my $0.02 smile.gif

George

[Viking]

David, you say you have a 2500 which should have a gvwr of 9200lbs. If your truck scaled at 7540lbs then 9200-7540= 1660lbs for payload(kingpin).

[David Utz]

Viking, True. I was using the rear axle/tire rating not the GVWR. The sticker doesn,t make much sence does it. I can put more than 2500 lbs safely on the rear axle, but the truck max payload load is only 1660? Where is the weak point? It's not the engine or drive train. It must be the brakes. With the trailer having it's own brakes, it's not the same as if I was hauling the same load in the box. While it does exceed the stated GVWR, It should not be overloading any of the truck parts including the brakes. Use which ever number you feel comfortable with.

[Viking]

David, I agree. I wonder if the 9200gvw has more to do with marketing, registering, license fees etc. We just might see that 9200 climb as the big three battle each other.

[glamisboy]

A friend of mine has an '02 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC longbed 4x4. His shipping records show from the factory the truck weighs 6607lbs. I would assume this would be just about accurate. If you take the 9200lb GVW that would leave you with 2593lbs for payload(fuel, passengers, accessories, etc). He is looking at getting a 40foot Weekend Warrior with a pin weight between 1900 and 2200 pounds. He has done a lot of research and said everyone has told him the same thing: the springs and tires are the weak spot. He said he was told to add air springs and new tires and he would be OK.

8.1 power, Why did you go with adding the 3500 springs instead of airbags?? Are they expensive? How does the overload spring work since the pad is not there on the 2500HD.

[drthv8r]

Checking the 2002 Chevrolet brochure for my Silverado 2500HD Ext Cab 4X4 Duramax Allison. It states for fifth wheel towing:

Max Trailer Weight 15,700

King Pin weight up to 3000 pounds with the 2500 HD

The GCWR is 22,000 pounds.

[johns]

BOOK SAYS - King Pin weight up to 3000 pounds with the 2500 HD

Wow. That must be a stripped down gasser with a 100# driver and nothing else.