ALLISON TRANS GOING SOUTH

[polaris800]

I have my 2001 crew cab long box back in the dealership for leaking oil/trans oils. Dealer informed me today that they have replaced (4) trans in the duramax in the last month. I know this person very well and he is very reliable for this information. Problems that existed he stated was leaking trans oil and harsh shift problems. All trans were replaced with new ones. Is there a problem with out allison trans? Are they worth the money? Time will tell.

:mad:

[MudNurI]

Polaris-

I'm finding the 4 allisons in 1 month from 1 dealership a bit hard to swallow....there is a member here that is pretty darn good about tracking allison's, and what's gone on with them etc... maybe you could post a bit more information and we can find out what's going on.

just my thought, but I can't seem to figure this one out. That's an AWFUL lot of transmissions for 1 dealership to replace in that short of time frame..

anyone else keep chewing but it won't go down??

Brandy

[hoot]

This tranny is by far the best out there for this size truck. No doubt about it. If you follow how many individuals have had real verifiable transmission problems on this site you can probably count them on your fingers.

Most of the Allison issues were software related. Most of the issues have been addressed.

As with the Dmax, there have been no real showstoppers.

Dmax now has 27 percent market share.

[mrwolf]

What dealership in MI are you taking your truck to? Maybee you could provide your VIN for follow-up.

[Nels]

I'm trying not to talk with my mouth full, Brandy. ;)

Someone is either a victim of gross dealer incompetence, or is being fed a bill of goods. I wonder if that dealer may be pulling the trigger on the tranny replacement without due cause (that is, if those 4 bad Ally's really exist). What makes tranny issues difficult to verify is the fact that the dealer's only recourse on Allison tranny repairs is to replace the whole unit. The way I understand it, the Allison boys don't want the GM techs inside of their transmission. Do I have this right? If that is the case, even very minor issues are candidates for tranny replacement. This would help exaggerate the warranty replacement numbers for GM far beyond what a reasonable person would believe.

What I do know for sure is that my Allison has been flawless, as has the Dmax.

On edit --
Why has it become necessary for GM owners to make a statement like my last line? Why is it that we have to always say, "I own a GM, and yes, it really does run," while all other makes can go on the assumtion that theirs is a quality running machine? Why do we get attacked by some factions who simply cannot accept the fact that GM really can make a dependable vehicle? Oh well, there I go trying to change the world again. Perception will change as our miles rack up. Rant mode off.

[ 06-19-2002: Message edited by: Nels ]</p>

[SoCalDMAX]

I have to agree with you guys to an extent. Although a PITA for the owner, I don't really count programming issues or leaking gaskets/seals to be any idication of a problem with the Allison as a transmission.

The tranny itself is strong and well designed, but a few TCM bugs needed to be worked out and seals fail on everything, just ask NASA.

I don't want to discount what anyone said, things often run in streaks. Perhaps it's a really latge dealership which does more than it's share of Dmax work and there happened to be an unusually large number of Allison problems...

Regards, Steve

[Russ Denman]

Polaris,

Are you from Waterford? :eek:

[hoot]

Why is it that we have to always say, "I own a GM, and yes, it really does run,"

Ain't that the truth. Browsing the "other" sites will give you a good indication of the troubles they have had that they simply take for granted.

Like my friend Duke who pulls his trans and has it "worked" because he knows better. And a list of "other" brand owners I know with multiple tranny failures. What gets me is the tranny failures they experience have been the norm so they don't even bring it up anymore.

We, on the other hand, are continously on the hot seat. One false move and it gets emblazoned all over the net. I guess the early hype has them with their guns drawn.

[SDWA]

The dealer that replaced my transmission has replaced two (including mine @ 250 miles) since they were introduced. Buckman's the one with the inside scoop on replaced trannys! He found out what happened to mine after it was torn down at the factory! (valve stuck open in bore)

No one makes a better automatic transmission then Allison. You only hear about the "bad" ones and not the millions of good ones.

Scott

[ 06-19-2002: Message edited by: SDWA ]</p>

[Budz]

I'm new to the site since I ordered a 2003 2500HD CC, D/A. I like what I've seen so far; great board.
Back in 1997 I purchased a new Camaro Z-28 (LS1 w/ 6 spd). At that time the Corvette had the LS1 for one year and it was still a relatively new and unproven engine that was added to the F-Body linup. In the early months of ownership I joined LS1.Com, a bulletin board very similar to this one, guys exchanging info, benchracing etc. In the first six months of the '98 model year, many owners were given new crate engines for relatively minor mechanical problems. It turned out that GM issued an order to replace engines rather than have the techs tear them down. After momma GM got enough engines to analyze, they gave the go-ahead to the techs to replace bent pushrods, valves, etc.

The whole point was that the engineers needed documented hard data to correct any legitimate problems. I'd have to agree with Nels, GM wants to diagnose the problems so that they may correct minor problems sooner rather than later by guessing what the problem is when diagnosed by scores of different techs with minimal experience with the Allison 1000 series. I like the idea that they care enough to go to the expense to make their product to the standard that we expect for our money. That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it! ;)

[polaris800]

My truck is still in the shop being looked at to determine were this oil leak is. The assist servive manager is the person who told me about the (4) allision trans being replaced. And the bigger problem is the fact that GM cannot do any repairs on the trans even if it's not major. That is not a good thing for us. Down the road this could be very costly. This dealer is very large and is in Ohio. It's not in my best interest to state that name yet at least not until they fix my truck. They half the ability to receive major allocation on the Duramaxes. All current ECM/TCM updates have already been completed before any problems arised. If this fluid leak is not corrected I will invoke the Magnuson-Moss act.

[mdrag]

polaris800,

Quote:
------------------------------------------------------
"If this fluid leak is not corrected I will invoke the Magnuson-Moss act."

------------------------------------------------------

Why would you do that? The M-M act has to do with aftermarket parts/accessories and denied warranty due to these items being present...maybe you're thinking of the lemon laws...

IIRC, the dealership can perform some minor repairs on the Allison 100 series - such as replacing leaking seals - but not repairs that require major tear down.

[Kennedy]

90% of these guys (service writers/managers) don't know an Allison from a 4L80E from a 4L60E.

Now 4 failures of the 4L60E in a month, THAT I can see...

[Russ Denman]

The GM dealers don't know what they are doing! I call 3 GMC dealers and 1 Chev dealer in Albuquerque to get the Allison spin on filter. They all quoted me about $45 and most did not have them in stock. It turned out they all thought I wanted the pan filter. :confused:

[polaris800]

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, 15 USC 2301, et seq, is designed to put "teeth" into state law warranty rights. This Act applies to ALL consumer goods with a value of $25.00 or more, and covers express written warranties, as well as warranties "arising under state law". Sec.15 USC 2301 (1), and Sec.15 USC 2310(D)(3). However, this act prohibits the disclaimer of the implied warranty of merchantabilty (MCLA 440.2314) if the vehicle is sold with a written warranty or service contract. If you review sec 15 USC 2308(c) (warranty disclaimer ineffective even where permitted under state laws). Further, the Act nullifies the privity defense,expressly permitting revocation against A remote manufacturer. This Act broadens remdies availble to us consumers by eliminating the state law privity requirements...... More importantly, this Act allows for a refund or replacement (at the consumers OPTIONS), as well as recovery of cost and attorney fees. One last part of this Act it REQUIRES that this be resolve in within 40 days. Now that is that act. If you would want me to discuss the Michigan Lemon Law I could do that to.

[dcpdave]

polaris,
there is an issue of the torque converter bolts coming loose allowing the converter to "walk", damaging the pump seal. we have one in here now, the bolts backed completely out, damaged the front pump. g.m. will allow replacing the front seal, and converter housing seals only. if there is any type of internal problem,(which the pump is considered internal) then g.m. sends us an exchange unit. on most new "major" components, g.m. does an exchange. the engineers want the defective unit back "complete" for analysis. usually, after 6 to 12 months, depending on number of units returned, and analysis determined, they will remove the exchange status and allow us to perform internal repairs. question; has your dealer actually inspected and determined the cause of the leak, and extent of damage (if any) yet? as far as the question of the quality of the allison, imho, i think it's a great transmission. this is the only failure we have had.
hope this helps,

[polaris800]

I'm on my way to they dealer now to see what they have found. This truck is an excellent trunk and they just need to find and correct the problem. I don't think I need to be this agressive however, they seem to have takend my concerned lightly. Wrong thing to do I'm not going to tolerate this level of service at a cost of $40,000 NO WAY!! I will forward your findings to the service manager with hopes this could be my oil leak. Thanks a bunch to all. Remember we must work together in order to solve our problems. Sometimes I feel am out there all alone but this site has been a GREAT help to me and many others.

[mdrag]

polaris800,

Thanks for the detailed info on the M-M act. I never took the time to read up about it , and when M-M was mentioned, it was always in the context of aftermarket parts and warranty coverage.

A previous post in another thread about the M-M act:

http://forum.62-65-dieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=002860&p=

indicated a large majority of these lawsuits are decided in favor of the manufacturer.

Michigan's Lemon laws are of no particular interest to me in OK, and if they read anything like the portions of the M-M act you posted - I'll pass on this... ;)

[polaris800]

Well, here we go again. Went to the dealer they now state there is a leak around the rear of the oil pan. Listen to this they tell me that they will have to keep it over night so that the silicon.rtv caulk that they put on it has proper time to dry. I looked at the service manager and just staired him down. I said do you really expect that to cure my problem and he advised me that GM told them to do this. I stated why don't you drop the oil pan put a new gasket on and call it the day. He tells me that that would required the engine raised up and would take up time. Well friends all I can say that I can't wait until I get the chance to order my new 2003 because most lickly this will be bought back unless they put the time into it and fix it right. What a waste by GM not to want to fix this problem.

[77TransAm]

Both parts of the oil pan on the duramax are sealed with sealant and no gasket, so replacing the gasket isn't an option. On a 4WD the front differential can be removed to gain enough access to drop the top half of the oil pan, but on a 2WD you're really looking at an engine removal (or at least repositioning) to get enough clearance to do anything correctly. Let us know the results of their attempted fix...

[polaris800]

Thanks 77trans I will le everyone know what this dealership decides to do. My dealer is "DAVE WHITE" Chevrolet Sylvania, OH :mad:

[Mic]

Any update ... ?? :confused:

[pullinpower]

How bout some pics of that truck polaris800?

[bryantch]

What I think is the root of MOST of GM's problems is the service departments of the dealerships (at least many of them). I dont doubt there are some good service techs out there but many either dont care about the quality of the repairs or even worse are not qualified to do them in the first place...whether they have been "certified" or not. I say this because today while talking to a friend of mine, who surprised to see I still have my 01, I showed him some of the problems that have been repaired or were supposed to be repaired. one of the repairs was the manual door lock on the drivers side. it still amazes me that after being "repaired" 4 times and replaced twice, it still will pop into your lap when using the remote locking switch. the last time the truck was in, the dealer said they repositioned the entire door panel because that was what was causing the problem...NOT! while showing my friend another "issue", the license plate light that fell out while hand washing the vehicle and was supposedly replaced the last time it was in the shop, it fell out AGAIN. I looked at it and there was HOT GLUE on it! Now I wonder if the problems with my truck in particular could have been fixed if a COMPETENT tech had worked on the truck. If they cant fix minor issues on a 40k truck how can they posibly fix more complex issues? HOT GLUE!? Needless to say I wasted a phone call to the owner of the dealership to inform him of my findings. Perhaps if my theory is correct and they are just "incompetent boobs" the problems with my truck which have prompted the re-purchase by GM (in progress) could have been put to rest and I would be a totally happy customer...(well almost) and GM would have most certainly saved themselves thousands of dollars.

[Colorado Kid]

I don't mean to put words in his mouth, but Polaris800 started the topic "Warning 2003 concerns" in the D-max forum. He's having some issues with the 2003 that he apparently got after a buy-back of the 2001 mentioned above.

[Redhawk]

Bryantch:

Let not your heart be troubled. You might be interested to know that my last truck (2000 F250 PSD)had similar problems, which they tried to fix in a haphazard way, dragging things out for months, hoping I would disappear somehow. They eventually had to buy it back from me, and along the way had to pay for my attorney, and every accessory I had put on the truck, plus various motel and related costs as well. The corporate mind cannot deal with practical matters very well, whether it is Ford, GM or whomever. As a result they conntinue to pay through the nose and ignore the real problem and are sometimes unable fix the most obvious things the first time around. Luckily, my 2001 GMC has been a great truck for me, no problems of any kind and my dealer has been great. However, I've never had to put GM to the test--yet. Hang in there, and good luck.

[Rebel_Horseman]

I think John Kennedy hit the nail on the head. As I type this my truck is sill in the shop after sitting there for 2 days. I put it in to get a clicking sound and vibration when accelerating corrected and a thunk form the leaf springs when I hit a bump fixed. All of these are common problems form what I hear. The d.a. service writer ordered a new slip yoke for my truck saying that it was a common problem. When it gets there they procede to take the slip yoke off my Allison and in doing so they damage it (the yoke). Then when they go to put the new piece on they see that it's the wrong one because it's made for another trannie other than the Allison. The guy actually told me that they didn't realise that I had the Allison transmission in my truck and that replacing the slip yoke wouldn't fix the vibration I was reporting! Can someone please tell me what other auto I can get with a Duramax???? :mad: They ordered a new part that was supposed to come in yeasterday but never showed and as of 11:30 still hasn't got there. Oh and they haven't done squat to the truck to fix the problems that I asked them to fix in the first place! This dealer will never see my truck again after I get it out of there. I"m begining to think that some of these guys have never seen the bottom of their hoods before.

Reb [&gt;&lt;]

PS Sorry for the long rant but I had to vent. tongue.gif

[odoh]

I had a harse shifting issue that one dealer diagnosed as normal for an allison. Another dealer wanted to replace the transmission. W/less than 3000miles at that time I said take another look. Ten days in the shop w/them working w/TAC, they replaced the TCU, and valve body. That fixed my problem and yes I know yours is different but the point being the service depts are just now starting to get some experience on the D/A's.
As for the crankcase, I seen a comment somewhere on this forum that the duramax is a modular enging and has to be separated from the allison first. Dunno ~ I didn't say it but someone did.
~ odoh