6.5 vs. powerstroke and cummins

[HANK1948]

I have some buddies at work with stock powerstrokes and cummins , can a modified 96 6.5 compete with these guys? I have a boost controller, 4 in. exhaust,k&n filter ,intercooler(installing soon) and hopefully soon heath ecm reflash

[Keith Richards]

It depends on the year of the other trucks.The older ones yes,I'm not sure about the new ones.Remember,the guy who gets there with his engine still intact wins.I dont think the 6.5 is designed to handle high RPM situations.

[GARY PAGE]

NO it's like taking a knife to a gun fight; but it's a Dodge and you would be better off with a Chevy, right!

[britannic]

There's enough problems with the Dodge "death wobble" steering, electrics and light duty frame, that I decided to drop a Cummins into my military M1028 and build the perfect combo IMHO: super duty tough frame, simple electrics and bullet proof DI 450rwhp/900ft/lb Cummins 5.9B 12V.

I already took care of the "killer dowel problem" that will kill the camshaft and timing case if left.

The Bosch P7100 in-line injection pump is huge and uses an engine oil pressure feed to lube and cool it, they're good for upwards of 300K miles. the injectors last longer as well, better than 150K miles in most cases.

The bottom end is really stout and speaks to the tractor/bus engine heritage of the "little engine that could".

The only downside from my POV, is the length and height of the I6 as opposed to the compact V8. However, ease of maintenance and access, more than compensate and power upgrades for the 1994-1998.5 5.9B 12V are as available as goodies for the Chevy 350 SB.

[patrick m.]

Originally posted by HANK1948:
I have some buddies at work with stock powerstrokes and cummins , can a modified 96 6.5 compete with these guys? I have a boost controller, 4 in. exhaust,k&n filter ,intercooler(installing soon) and hopefully soon heath ecm reflash i have driven several p/strokes, and dodges, most of them stock, the latest one was a '00 p/stroke with exhaust, K&N, and 3 stage switchable ATS "piggyback", with a 6 speed......i think i could take it.
if it were an auto,,,,,,,,maybe not.

finish up your mods, and "call 'em out", then tell us about it.
:D

[Tough Guy]

If you are talking 1/4 mile stuff, and they're stock you stand a good chance. If your talking 6% grades pulling 10,000lbs you're asking for a beating.

Cheers

[britannic]

My friend has a stock 2001 Cummins and I was easily able to out accelerate him (both running empty) in my upgraded MHI turboed 6.2L. As was already stated, towing is another story, as the Cummins can really put down the torque low in the rev range. Once they've fitted with a 3000rpm governor upgrade, #10 fuel plate, 191 delivery valves, 370HP injectors, PDR turbo running 36psi boost and the AFC adjusted for max boost, you won't get near one, unless you level the playing field with a stoked Dmax engine or commit to seriously shortening the life of your heavily upgraded 6.5LTD - YMMV :D .

There's a few guys out there running twin compound turbos Cummins with insane amounts of fuel pushing over 700rwhp/1200ft/lb on the dyno. Some are tuned only for the dyno and need to be reconfigured with less top end power to be streetable.

I had no problems passing my other friend's lwb CC PS, but he does have a nearly 8000lb truck, whilst my rig only weighbridged at 4980lbs. A PS with mods is a different story. In both cases, the Ford and Dodge have a direct inject engine that delivers good usable power and the Duramax stacks up really well against both of them.

Some of the guys who're less prejudiced on the TDR and DTR forums are becoming very aware that the DMax with a Juice, Banks 6 Gun, or Predator etc., are either more than they bargained for or about equal in performance to their setups.

I love my DMax and Cummins both, they offer a completely different feel - the DMax is very refined and quietly produces prodigious quantities of power, whilst the "bombed" Cummins has a raw brute energy that can break the wheels loose and send the truck sideways at freeway speeds if you floor it.

[C.K. Piquup]

The 6.5 can easily make 300hp with a few(expensive)mods.Twin turbos can produce 450hp,probably not for a diesel lifetime I feel.Except for the current offerings,Ford & Dodge(Navistar & Cummins,it`s ok for a GM guy to like these)fall short of 300hp and can be outrun by the 300hp 6.5TD.That`s speed,now on torque the I6 Cummins wins regardless because it makes the most at the lowest RPM,where it counts.I think when comparing (racing) a 300hp 6.5TD to the current Ford & Dodge diesels,it`s close enough to say it`s possible for the 6.5 to win some.It would come down to reaction time and other vehicle equipment(tires,gearing,trans).In other words you could match a modified 6.5 to stock Fords and Dodges,for that matter a Duramax as well.You will definitly have the element of surprise.Just hope they don`t go out and start sinking money into their motors.

[Don Boland]

I have been hesitating to reply to this one cause I just bought a new Dodge with the new 600 in it. Struggled with negotiations between the duramax and the cummins to be honest. Decided against the ford early in the process cause the cab noise and ride were way too out of line IMHO. Dodge is still a little more trucky feeling but comparing the net price for stuff I cared about, I decided to be different for a while. Still have my dually and still really like it. Just a matter of having "new" miles vs 200,000!

Real deal is that the power is definitely there with the cummins. Not complaining about the D-Max though cause truth be known, if I could have matched the price, I would probably have stayed a chevy man. Oh, the turning radius on the new dodge is pretty different too. Don't feel like I have to worry about the wide turns for a while!

They are all good. I wouldn't be ashamed to drive any of them. We'll see how long the romance lasts with this Ram!

DB

[Cooperrw]

After driving a new 6.0 liter 03 F350 power stroke at work I know that I would not get in a race with one. We have a mix of chevy and ford trucks in the fleet and the ford will eat the chevy's lunch in an unloaded race. I am not a ford fan at all and these trucks have had there problems since we got them but they will run! smile.gif plus the rpm limit is a 1000 rpm higher.

[additive]

I don't think you can keep with a stock Dodge or Powerstroke when towing a 3500 lb (and heavier) trailer, even with the mods you suggest. The electronic fuel injector you have just doesn't pump the fuel out fast enough. If you read all the documentation available on the power project truck, you will see that after Jim had upgraded the turbo, fuel injection pump (mechanical - not electronic) he was able to keep up with the Powerstroke and beat an earlier model Dodge (I think the dodge was a 97 or 98).

The power project truck also has 18:1 pistons in the motor for reliability so that he can run more boost from the turbo charger safely.

My early 99 stock powerstroke is very strong when it comes to pulling. When it really shines is when I am pulling 5000 lbs. or more up 6% grades on a hot (100 degrees +) day with the a/c on. (My powerstroke is equipped with 3.373 gears.)

I just don't want any false expectations being set that what you are proposing would actually keep up with the powerstrokes and dodges when towing heavier trailers.

[patrick m.]

i believe it has been sugested that his truck would do very well against his fellow-employee's trucks, empty.
no one has told him to load up a few thousand pounds and try it.

i would bet money on my 6.5 against any stock 7.3 powerstroke.......EMPTY ;)

[skip460]

Very true, as the owner of both a '95 stroke and a '95 6.5TD the difference is most noticeable when towing. Thats what we need these trucks for.But for every day running around stop light to stop light, the chevy is the top dog.When I tow the RV , the hills that slow the 6.5 down i can accelerate up with the stroke. Both these trucks are bone stock except straight pipe on ford and remote FSD,turbo master on chevy. I say i have the best of both worlds...and no monthly note.

[Movin Air]

Hank,

I concur with Tough Guy. You may get them in a empty 1/4 mile race but i think you will be in trouble once the load is hooked on. It also depends on gear ratio and GVW to name a few and you are running a 1 ton crew cab most likely with 4:10 gears, pretty heavy for the drag strip.

I own a 6.5 chevrolet for class, style, and the ride, oh yeah, and because fords are expensive to repair and always in the shop.

If you can handle losing (if it happens) and listening to them brag, line them up. I would first put in a chip and your intercooler. If you beat them you can guarantee they are going to stick some money into their trucks, so get ready for anther run.

[More Power]

A performance built 6.5 with a marine fuel injection system, a Peninsular turbo, 18:1 pistons and all the other stuff would not be outrun with a 10K trailer on any grade by a stock 1999/2000 model year Ford or Dodge. The GM-8 turbo is a limitation when trying to achieve maximum longterm power (like when towing heavy trailers up long steep grades).

Aside from restricting exhaust flow at high power levels and RPM's, a GM-8 also limits power and raises EGT, which impacts coolant temperature. Again, when running at maximum power up long steep grades with a 10K trailer.

Lighten the load or reduce speeds, and a performance 6.5 with a GM-8 will do just fine. We know that a stock 2001 Duramax couldn't pass the Project 6.5 on Homestake pass while each were pulling similar sized (7K) trailers.

MP

[patrick m.]

well i tangled with a Powerstroke on the way home from work today. i would guess it was between a '99 & 01 model, company truck, empty, F250 superduty, reg cab, longbed, 2wd.

I looked at him while we were at the traffic light, i didnt think he noticed me. When the light turned green, he left at full throttle (according to the puff of black smoke) i quickly caught up, and passed him and while we were side-by-side, the look of diss-belief was quite staisfying, eventhough it was short lived, as he backed off the throttle ;)