Temps at which Diesel will start to Gel

[mcmonroe]

I have a buddy in Bowling Green KY that has a diesel truck. It's a 2004 Dodge. This morning it would start, run a few seconds, and then die. HE tried it several times with the same results eac time. The temp was down to 11F last night there.

He was driving the truck around all day yesterday with no problems. He is thinking that the fuel must have gelled due to the cold weather.

When does diesel in southern states or even up north start to gel? Do you think his gelled or does he have other problems?

Thanks in advance,

Mark Monroe
2004 DA CC

[saywhat]

Straight #2 can gel at 20F or so no matter where you live.Bet that was his problem.

[saywhat]

Oh,by the way it was 17 below here this morning and a Merry Christmas to you and all. Jim

[mcmonroe]

From this faq over at the TDI list:

http://www.tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/TDiFAQ-3.html

It is clear that #2 can potentially gel at 20F and lower.

Ok -- here is the rub... The GM manual specifically recommends not using any additives -- yet most of the country can see sustained temps under 20F during the winter.

So what are guys in KY, TN, NC, SC, etc doing when the temps drop into the teens for a few days? We obviously cant just stop using our trucks until things warm up. I see this as being a really great way of getting stranded -- especially if I take a trip up to the mountains to go skiing or hiking during the winter.

As far I as I know they use straight #2 in the tanks around here all year round as well as in KY.

Thoughts/ideas?

Mark Monroe
Harrisburg NC

[Freeman777]

Mark,

Check out a diesel fuel additive called "Power Service" I used it successfully while Elk hunting in NE Utah - temp was -9F! Every morning my 2004.5 D/A started right up, no problem. A friend of mine put me on to it; he swore by it and achieved 140,000 in his rig (GMC 6.2) without any problems. He told me he was tipped off by a long-haul trucker, who reportedly had used it for 100's of thousands of miles.

http://www.powerservice.com/trucking.asp

Good luck to you and your friend,
Dave Freeman
Las Vegas, NV

[Spoolin'It]

GM has since released a service update on the use of additives.....
gm service (http://service.gm.com/gmtechlink/images/issues/apr03/TLApr03e.html)

Hope this clears things up.

[jbplock]

Here's some general Diesel Fuel info on Chevron's website...

Diesel Fuels Technical Review (http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel)

smile.gif

[Tough Guy]

I use Power Service in every tank in both of my trucks, they see very cold temps here in Montana to date I have never had any trouble and my 6.5L has 155,000+ miles and no signs of stopping.

Cheers

[damork]

Stanadyne Performance Blue has been in every tankfull of fuel in my truck and I'm at 200,000 miles. I've had a 30 micron Racor ahead of the lift pump for over 75,000 miles.

I haven't been below -10F, but so far it has worked fine down to that without using the heater element in the Racor and I always run a premium blend fuel when temps drop below freezing and switch to straight #1 when dropping into the teens.

[tanker]

Here in Pa. #2 heating oil jells at around +17*F, we see it every year when the temps drop. It jells in the meter strainers on the fuel oil tank trucks, so if you buy #2 Diesel fuel in some warmer areas of the country and temps drop, your in trouble. It won't be that bad unless your truck sits not running overnight in very cold temps. Use an additive to be sure, good insurance. ;)

[Texasoilman44]

Here are the current specs on LSFO2:


API Gravity NLT 30
PMCC Flash NLT 140 DegF
FBP NMT 690 DegF
KinVis100F 2.0 - 3.6
Pour Point NMT 0 DegF
Cloud Point NMT +15 DegF
Corrosion NDT 1 (copper strip method)
Sulfur NMT .047 wt%
Cetane D976 NLT 42.0
Cetane D4737 NLT 40.0
Ash NMT .01 wt%
Rams/C-10B NMT .35 wt%
BS&W LT .05 vol%
Nalco Stab NMT 7
Aged Sed NMT 2.5 mg/100ml
Haze Rating NMT 2
Nace Rust NLT B+

Pour point is 0 degF, so in theory (and I use the word losely) it should not gel up to the point where it will not flow until it reaches that temp.

Regards,

Kevin

[madmatt]

if your using a good quality fuel sation the fuel should be blended for winter, but if you feel safer running an additive i suggest the stanadye fuel sys. conditioner. GM actually tells us techs to add some when we replace 6.5l pumps. On the other hand I just replaced a LB7 pump and frp sensor due to water intrusion in my opinion from running an anti-gel additive and bad fuel.

[B1powered]

The reason for the original notice about not using additives is because they repeatedly say not to use "Alcohol-or-Emulsifiers".
Any good fuel additive like Stanadyne uses a DEmulsifier(water falls out of fuel).
Alcohol and Emulsifiers are BAD news for a diesel injection system!!
DEmulsifiers and Cetane boosters that DO NOT contain alcohol are GREAT for diesel engines.

Additives are ok, Just do some research on what they do and if you don't want to to do that........Stick with Stanadyne it is excelent stuff. Amsoil also makes a very good Cetane booster that does not contain Alcohol.

[mark45678]

Hey GUYS !!!!! its the clouding point that gets you! If your looking for gell fuel your already well past the pint where fuel will go threw a fuel filter!!!! The wax and water is already frozen and cloging up the pores in the fuel filter and its only a mater of a few mins of running time before your walking!!!!! strait #2 at temps colder then 20*F must be treated period!

[mdrag]

Originally posted by B1powered:
The reason for the original notice about not using additives is because they repeatedly say not to use "Alcohol-or-Emulsifiers".
Any good fuel additive like Stanadyne uses a DEmulsifier(water falls out of fuel).
Alcohol and Emulsifiers are BAD news for a diesel injection system!!
DEmulsifiers and Cetane boosters that DO NOT contain alcohol are GREAT for diesel engines.

Additives are ok, Just do some research on what they do and if you don't want to to do that........Stick with Stanadyne it is excelent stuff. Amsoil also makes a very good Cetane booster that does not contain Alcohol. Here's an opinion expressing the other side of the emulsify/demulsify issue:


Originally posted by george morrison:
And to further John's comments. When we chemically tie up water molecules, surround it by a lubricating boundary, we essentially eliminate water from our system. i.e. we no longer have 'water' going through out system. 90% of all warranty disallows are due to visible signs of corrosion in the system from water drop-out or separation. A dealer close by currently has seven Duramax/6.5TD's sitting out back that were taken in by owners due to rough running, etc. All six owners were given estimates of between $3,000 and $7,000 for system repair. Yet all units were within the 100,000 mile warranty period. All six units showed visible signs of corrosion in the systems thus warranty disallow. In two cases the owners religiously used a recommended demulsifying fuel additive.
Very simply, if one uses a demulsifying additive free water can settle anywhere in the system when the vehicle is allowed to sit for any period. Thus, on start-up, free water can/will cause immediate damage to pumps, injectors, etc. If one uses an emulsifying additive, free water is minimized/eliminated, so if nothing else, warranty disallows will be also aliminated! Moreover, system problems are minimized as water, per se, is eliminated. Unless, of course, we are unfortunate enough to get a 'slug' of water, then the normal amount of emulsification capability will be overwhelmed and hopefully our water separator works as advertised to prevent catastrophic failure.
George Morrison Here is the previous forum discussion Topic: Fuel Additives Demulsifiers vs Emulsifiers (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=007568).

All seem to agree that alcohol is bad for a fuel treatment.

GREAT TASTE!!! :D LESS FILLING!!! tongue.gif

[madmatt]

Document ID# 1558305
2004 Chevrolet Chevy K Silverado - 4WD


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6.5L Diesel or 6.6L Duramax Diesel Fuel Additives - kw L65 LB7 LLY block cold contaminated contamination economy filter flush GMT800 #PIP3203 - (Oct 22, 2004)
6.5L Diesel or the 6.6L Duramax Diesel Fuel Additives
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The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom described in the PI.

Condition/Concern:
The use of diesel fuel additives is not required or recommended for the 6.5L diesel or the 6.6L Duramax Diesel engine under normal conditions. The filtering system is designed to block water and contaminants without the use of additives. However, some customers may desire to use fuel additives to improve the characteristics of available diesel fuels.

Recommendation/Instructions:
Water Emulsifiers and Demulsifiers

If the customer desires to use a fuel additive, care must be taken in its selection. There are two common methods that fuel additives use to cope with water in the fuel. One method is through demulsification of water in the fuel. This method causes water particles to combine together to form larger particles and drop out of suspension, which still allows the fuel filter to separate water from the fuel as designed. The other method of coping with water in the fuel is through emulsification. This method, often using alcohol as the emulsifier, keeps water particles suspended in the fuel. Emulsification of water in the fuel can allow water to get past the fuel filter/water separator, causing damage to the fuel system. Both Racor and Stanadyne diesel fuel additives are alcohol free and utilize water demulsifiers to cope with water in the fuel.

.

COMMON DIESEL FUEL CONCERNS

.

Fuel Waxing/Icing

Fuel distributors blend #1 and #2 diesel fuels for seasonal requirements in a particular region. No other blending of fuels is recommended. However, a customer may desire to use a winter fuel additive to prevent fuel waxing or icing during extreme cold snaps. If a winter fuel additive is to be used, it should not contain alcohol or other water emulsifiers that may compromise the water removal effectiveness of the fuel filtering system.

Bacteria and Fungi Growth

Bacteria and fungi growth can occur in diesel fuel when there is water present, especially during warmer weather. The best prevention against bacteria and fungi growth is to use clean fuel that is free of water. There are diesel fuel biocides available which are designed to kill bacterial growth in the fuel system. However, the dead bacteria can still cause blockages throughout the fuel system. If bacterial growth is found in the fuel system, the proper method of removal is to flush the fuel system using service manual procedures, replace the fuel filter element, and refill the tank with clean diesel fuel. If a customer desires to use a biocide after flushing the fuel system, it should not contain alcohol or other water emulsifiers.

Low Cetane Number

The cetane number is one indicator of a diesel fuel