Allison upgrades.......

[mackin]

I would like to start a thread on this to get some info and our thoughts.

With all the mods out now propane and boxes. There seems to be some movement beginning on the Allison upgrades. Who would ever of thought we would have to consider this right, HOOT? I have received an E-mail from ----->http://www.transmissionspecialist.com/
They say that anything over a 150 hp upgrade will cause 5th gear slippage. So they have a valve body upgrade MY E-mail I received---->Allen,

The valve body is available now for the Allison
system. There is no electrical updated needed when
upgrading. Price on the valve body is $730.00 (install
will vary depending on your vehicle) Please give us a
call @ 1+ 877.423.5603 or 1+ 800.949.6002 so that we
can discuss your options.

Thanks
Matt
ATS
303.431.7973
www.ATSdiesel.com


Now I know I can call them and get a lot of my question addressed but I want all the unbiased info here first.
How difficult is the install?
How Will the torque converter, pumps clutches handle the upgrade?
And many more. Big Al any info.
Comments are always welcome.....
MAC :D :D

[thechevyhdman]

Hey Mackin I signed in at your picture site, I see that you are from Connecticut as am I, Where abouts do you live? Ive done a valve body in a turbo 350 before and It wasnt very hard, It was easier though seeming that I had the transmission on a bench. As far as I know In the Allison The valve body is usually right above the oil pan. Just drop the pan And unbolt it And replace again. When I had a valve body changed in my 4l80E It took the mechanic under 2 hourse so It doesnt seem that hard with the electronically controlled engines. I assume that part is aftermarket maybe Allsion has a beefier set up for them. There is an Allison dealership in Ct in Middleton Id call them up and get a price on installation they were really nice up there and treated me good. Heck I drove half an hour just to go up there to get the spin on filters for the tranny for 7 bucks a piece. I have some Allsion books I got when we bought a GMC school bus. When I find them Ill look in the mechanics book and tell you how to replace. The books cover the 1000 and 2000 series transmissions, and were very informative. As unknowledgable as I am I hope i helped.

[mackin]

thechevyhdman,

Welcome, I assume you have been lurking here and already have discovered that it is a great sight with lots of good info and that's why you joined. Let me add there is some smart people here with loads of info.......


Where do I live in CT? Apparently not far from you, Unless your coming up from the shore or the CT. River, I also can be in Middletown in about a 1/2 hour. After all I got a 7000 LB HOTROD too. It was easier for me to go to Southbury to get Allison parts. Closer too for sure. Me, I live of exit 17 off of 84. There are a few people from CT on this forum. Some from Mass. as well as RI and this side of NY, Certainly enough to start a New England Chapter. Perhaps we will all have to meet up someday, Coffee or a beer, tea if it tickles your fancy LOL ... smile.gif

OK now on topic, I to have changed valve bodies in trannys myself years ago. Weren't we all shade tree mechanics at one time before every thing became electronic controlled? Did a couple early model Mopars always on the bench although. At the Same time I was putting in a shift kit.Drinking beer doin our best at keeping all those little foreign objects out and not really caring because if it didn't work you could go to the junkyard in the mourning and get another. LOL :rolleyes: Those days are over for me. I to would assume it could be done without RR the entire unit. I am not familiar with the sophisticated Allison with all the electronics solenoids and all that stuff. Sounds like it would be easy upgrade, but you know how that goes. Nothing like spending almost $40 Gs on a truck, and then looking to beef up what the General gave us. I'm just doing research on this at this time. If it becomes the fact that one can just drop the pan and switch valve bodies I would considering doing in the near future. Still waiting for Big Al to jump in this .......Maybe I should call Allison up and get a price good Idea.
MAC :D :D

[thechevyhdman]

Wow thats too funny I live like 10 minutes from you here in Newtown obviously Exit 10. Its a small world after all. I was thinking of going to Hines bros. to get tranny filters but dont really do any business with them. Was that picture in your picture book taken on Lake Zoar? Heck Ill meet up for a beer anytime in Southbury if you want lets see we can go to the Lodge, Sals, you name it. Or Maggie McFlys which is closer to ya Also what mods have you done with your truck if any? It will be great to see them in the truck and have someone with experience to help me along my way (Ill pay you with beer LOL) Anyways If ya want to meet up for a cold one some time email me at GMANJR96@aol.com. See ya.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

Hey Guys,

Sounds like a CT chapter for D/A would be great!!

Who wants to star it??

Mackin, ya wanna take the lead on this one??

GMC :D

[mackin]

WOW, it sure is a small world.

First thing a Chapter HHHMMMM,lets call it a "BEER RUN" can't make any kinda organized Sunday go meet'in spin off the diesel page they frown on that right our NEWLY appointed moderator SO CAL DMAX. He started a thread on it and the hammer came down...LOL
Someday for sure we will ALL get to gather for a "BEER RUN" and swap our life stories and throw a little DMAX stuff in there.
OK the only mods so far I have completed is a "BUFFED TAIL PIPE" LOL. No just kidding I have not done much but I have modified my stock air box and running an AMSOIL 2 stage air cleaner. I have an Edge box THE JUICE on order and I am going to get J Kennedy's exhaust. I have the rims you have seen on the Picture trail. Have to buy tires want MICHELIN LTX ribs $143 bucks a pop need 6, YIKES.............Eventually I will do gauges but I don't due a lot of trailing mostly payload stuff so no rush. Wanted to get some miles on this truck before I tampered with it. Now it is time......


The picture on the lake is LAKE ARROWHEAD in MILTON VT........Small place to spend time at away from the everyday hustle here. So as soon as I get some stuff done or whenever its convenient we should find a spot for a "BEER RUN".I'm 4 to 5 miles from MAGGIE MCFLYS. Do you think that they will like our greasy hands and diesel fuel cologne?LOL Not a problem, I'm like a used car I clean up real nice.LOL As long as the other members "OOPS" beer drinkers don't mind the travel .... It would be a haul from Kent.... I saved your E-mail we'll work out the details.....eventually
MAC

:D
OH ya no what else I did I upgraded my factory FOGS to 50 watt. Yup melted the crap out of them don't do it I'm going to post the PICS on my picture trail of the damage. I'm going to post a thread on it also.? Quit laughing :D

[ 03-31-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[Alli-max]

curiousity strikes....

Why is the slipage specific to only 5th gear?? What IS slipping??

Personally not planning on boosting bhp's 150+, more like 100. But, you never know.

[mackin]

Alli-max,

What I am going on is what ATS states that with performance mods 150 hp or over. The Allison will not (or cannot )? "hold" the gear. So slippage must occur. Where? At what component of the tranny? Clutch pack? I do not know. Where is Big Al?
YOU HOO Big Al please chim in and explain to me this simpleton I am.
These are things I too would like to know.?
MAC :confused: :confused:

[ 03-31-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

MAC,

Thanks, since I'm new I don't want the Moderators to get upset. :eek: We can get together at some point I'm sure. :D It's not that big of a haul when ya ridin' in a big, bad Dmax!! :cool:

GMC :D

[SoCalDMAX]

Yeah Guys,

Watch out for that jerk Moderator! ;)

I emailed ATS a long time ago asking how much for the valve body and would they do the 6th gear thing, never got a reply. Probably already knew I was a whacko.

Mac, that buffed 3.5" pipe has to be worth *at least* an extra 50hp, according to all of the riceb0ys around here. ;) Truthfully, the 4" JK exhaust and Juice is gonna give you all the power your "poor little Allison" can handle. Never thought you'd ever hear that, eh? I sure thought the Allison was gonna be the strongest part of the whole package!

I look forward to hearing how you like the "Juice."

Regards, Steve

[Alli-max]

hey GMC... dont worry about the mods here! Say what you want about them, but get ready to get some razzing back from 'em! All in fun.

As for answering mods questions, I have YET to see one get upset over another DP member answer it. You never know....somebody might need an answer RIGHT away, and the mods are "working" (yes, that is a rag on you West coast boy!) :D :D :D

Back to the issue at hand....

If you DO find out any good info, I too would like to know (although T.A. probably knows this). I am guessing this slipping has to do with the TC?? :confused: :confused:

[BigAl]

Well, I'll try to make this a simple as possible. Suffice to say, this is extremely complex...........

The tranny is essentially designed to withstand a certain amount of HP and Torque. Some components "see" HP, while others "see" Torque. One of the components that "sees" HP is the spring damper in the torque converter. Too much, and the springs will bottom out (rather than "dampen"). Clutches can "see" both HP and Torque, and problems manifest themselves in a couple of ways. There may simply be too much power going through a clutch for it to hold......resulting in a slippage of the clutch. That is why some clutch packs have a different quantity of clutch plates. Slipage = Heat Heat = Trouble......eventually!

More to the point, you can increase HP and Torque and not really get into trouble because you can't effectively use the power.........i.e. you encounter wheel slip, or you never really "use" the power. At some point, all that extra power just ends up going out the exhaust pipe in the form of decreased fuel economy. That's why Engineers take great pains to put just the right amount of engine into a particular application.....to strike the right balance between performance and economy. You can sacrifice either, depending upon what you are wanting to do.

Now having said all this, I'm not sure I answered your question. What you really want to know, I think, is "what's gonna break if I DO use the extra power?" I already mentioned the torque converter..........clutch packs would certainly be in there somewhere......I'd be bettin' on 1st gear (lowest ratio). At some point gears are gonna start pitting, which ultimately affects long-term life. Finally, expecially on 4WD trucks, there is the whole question of the "stuff" in the transfer case, which I ain't gon no clue as to how strong it is!

[Kanuck]

Hi Mackin
Your post has me wondering about a few things so I went and grabbed my Allison 1000 2000 3000 series manual to verify a few things. First a quick and dirty way to get a clutch to take more power (to hold better)is to boost the line pressure. This tranny doesn't use a pressure control solenoid to control line pressure like other GM transmissions so in order to boost line pressure you would have to change the pressure regulator valve spring. Thats not a big deal except the pressure regulator valve is not in the valve body. It is in the oil pump housing. So now I am wondering what you are getting for $730.00 US (thats about $10,000 Canadian) ; )See if you can find out what the mods are.