Bio-Diesel?

[sodapop]

I've recently read some information on making a homebrew fuel for diesels, labeled as biodiesel. First I've even heard of such a thing, but seems widespread, especially in Europe. Dont know what to think of it, anyone have experience or knowledge of the subject?? Hey, if you can make it safely and easily @ about $0.25/gallon, I'm thinkin about it!!

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94 K3500 6.5 reg cab
01 K3500 LT CC D/A Pewter

[Blacktruck-1]

FP&L ran a pilot program using Biodiesel from our fleet fueling service. The stuff smells kinda like french fries when burned! Seat of the pants the turbo seemed to spool up quicker and overall performance was very good (DT466 Navistar). Spoke with the Fleet Manager about it and he said the only problems they had with it was it had a tendency to clean out the algae in the tanks and clog up the Racors. Just like all good things the pilot came to an end. Fuel prices dropped to a point where it wasn't cost effective to use.

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Onyx Black '01 cc D/A LS 2wd Have order # Since 02/19

[sodapop]

thanks b-truck,
it seems to me that if the stuff is being used in the u.s., even as a test or pilot program, there must be some merit to it. I've read that an additional filter system is reccomended, prob due to the problems fp&l had. I think I would be hesitant putting the stuff in my new chevy, but the 6.5 might be a good guinea pig~!..ya think?

btw...truck you ordered sounds awesome...had almost same one order for few months, gave up and a took a pewter lt on the lot...when i took delivery of mine, heard that black was gonna be next color out(for 3500's anyway), so you might be getting yours soon...good luck

[sk]

Here's one (of many) recent articles:

http://www.truckinginfo.com/news/news_detail.asp?news_id=42555

Scott

[SoMnDMAX]

Uh oh...

In today's (3-11-01) Star and Tribune paper out of Minneapolis, MN had an article about a couple of bills that the Minnesota Legislature wants to make the use of Bio Diesel state law. I believe they want to have 5% soy oil by 2006, but starting in 2002 they want 2% soy oil. The bills are widely opposed by the trucking industries, but widely accepted by the the farming industry. Hopefully I don't get stuck running this crap......

I'll post more details as they become available....

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2001 Chevy 2500HD Duramax, Allison
Ext. Cab SB
Forest Green
Driving it!!!
Sure turns heads!!!
Diesel Page member #6184

[78Chev]

FYI: Stanadyne, who is worried about injection component failures, has issued letters of support for the increased use of biodiesel blended with petrodiesel because, they believe, it adds back significant lubricity that has been lost by the reduction of sulfur content in currently available and future diesel. One letter, dated March 8, 2000, was to the Chairman of the House Environment Committee of Kansas for Resolution No. 5069 which encourages the use of biodiesel in low blend levels:

Stanadyne's test "results indicate that the inclusion of 2% biodiesel into any conventional diesel fuel will be sufficient to address the lubricity concerns that we have with these existing diesel fuels."

(If I can find the link again I'll post it.) Growers of soy, canola, rapeseed, and other viable crops like the idea of biodiesel because it provides expanded markets for their crops. Recycling companies, who collect waste grease from restaurants, may find a new market for this "hazardous waste." The trucking industry would be opposed, understandably, because of the significantly higher cost of bidodiesel fuel. Environmentalists are happy because of the research that shows it reduces most emissions and particulates (although it increases the tailpipe emission of nitrous oxides). Biodiesel doesn't appear to be available yet to the general public, although legislation in MN and other states might introduce it into the regular diesel supply as B02 (2% biodiesel). I have heard that biodiesel is available at the pump in some countries in Europe.

It will be interesting to keep our eyes on the biodiesel market and legislation, especially as the price of petrodiesel continues to climb.
--Randy

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82 GMC 1/2 2WD 6.2D fixerupper
78 Chev Silverado former 5.7D

[rumbler]

I'm really not all that concerned with diesels driving around in Europe, I want to know if anybody around here has tried using a homebrew. Around here diesel goes for $1.61-$1.75 and I'd be willing to try something different if I were fairly certain it would work. Has anybody tried used cooking oil in a turboed 6.2? If so what were the results?

86 suburban, 4x4, 6.2 Banks turbo

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jack

[MoparzMo'betta!]

try this link for lotsa data, (reasonably unbiased, so long as you read the whole thing and pick out both the pros and cons)
biggest "pro"s were:
better lubricity and renewable

biggest drawbacks were:
production cost (small scale things almost always suffer here) and touchy chemistry recovering and neutralizing the alkalinity (could damage a pump chemically, even worse than the better lubricity providing a "plus")

www.veggievan.com (http://www.veggievan.com)

if the established petroleum companies would be willing to start buying oodles of used McDonald's fry oil and processing it, the cost effectiveness could then be improved, maybe, and some good QC measures developed.


as for the increase in NOx emissions, that was variable. Some engines involved int the testing produced NOx badly, others didn't. That's usually associated with excessively high combustion temps, regardless of what fuel was used. That comment's in their website, somewhere.

Personally, I have nothing against "oil people", and they'll always have a potential income. I'd really like to see the farmers reap (no pun intended) some benefit from this by having another alternative for their grain sales, especially the oily crops, like soybeans, corn, etc.

This country has become way too dependant on outside sources of way too much stuff. Any of these external suppliers can do whatever they want to us because of this. OPEC taught many other nations that lesson, and they've learned it well. Time to put the power back in our farmers' hands. They kept the nation (and more recently, the world) alive for a very long time, only to have the government, the bankers, and the super-cheap foreign alternatives kill them off.

I'm not a "treehugger", per se, but I do like "green" stuff, and if handled properly, I'd love to see BioDiesel pushed hard. The potential "pro's" seem to far outweigh the present "con's".

How, then, do we provide the "push" without giving the government an excuse to make more regulations and red tape? ===rich

[konghh]

Here's a link on how to make biodiesel

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

[Scott856.2]

Biodiesel (BD) is the happenin' stuff. I am going to be running it in my VW TDI. It is certified compatible, even at 100% BD. You can buy it but it is expensive. You can make your own and here is a link with tons of real world experience:

http://biodiesel.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic/a/cfrm

I do not know if the GM's are compatible. The problem is that BD has stronger solvent properties and may degrade the rubber components in the fuel system. It will definately clean out the tank and lines.

If I can find out about GM compatibility I will post here.

Scott

[dmax]

Veggie-Tales...


http://www.auto.com/targetnews/articles/Automotive/05_16_2001.reutr-story-N16443561.html

Mike

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2001 2500HD Duramax/Allison Summit White CC/SB Loaded PICTURES (http://members-http-4.rwc1.sfba.home.net/hoot74/cars/duramax/gmc/)
1997 K2500HD 6.5TD Reg Cab Silverado Loaded SOLD!..PICTURES (http://uscom.com/~hoot/cars/97HD/97.html)
1994 K1500 Blazer 350 Loaded

[This message has been edited by dmax (edited 05-17-2001).]

[Texas_Hale]

Well now, what indeed is the real story with this? I'll tell you. I personally am going to build my own refinery and try to sell it to some of the local trucking companies or to some of the truck stops or both.

The bottom line is this. The lubricity properties are outstanding, the cetane count is much higher than dino-diesel, it is biodegradable, so you don't have to worry about spills, it is less toxic than table salt, so you don't have to worry about injesting a little (but obviously, don't give up coffee for it...)it does not produce as much soot as dino-diesel, so your oil won't get as contaminated, it burns much cleaner and will naturally clean out your complete fuel system.

The ONLY 3 drawbacks (which granted are big problems) are, 1, since it is such a great solvent, it will if ran at 100%, eat away anything rubber in the system. 2, it is expensive to make on a small scale. 3. It gels at higher temps than dino-diesel.

You can make it yourself. McDonalds usually pays to have the old oil they have hauled off. You could make a deal with them to let them give it to you and you either chage less than the guy whos doing it now, or don't charge anything. You then would need all the suitable hardware (mentioned on the http://journeytoforever.org/ site) and your expenses come for buying Methanol or ethanol, and lye. I have seen sites that say on the world market, methanol is going for abou .70 per gal. You will need about 20% met/eth per waste vegetable oil. In scales that I was initially contemplating, it would cost me about $4 per gal of BD to produce it. Obvioulsy way too much (unless it were sold as a fuel additive... http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/ubb/cool.gif )

This really is the future of diesels, and I believe that you will see diesels become WAY more popular in the US. Germany for example has diesel models of just about every car on the road. They also have 80/20 mixes with D-D and B-D available. France is the largest producer of BD. They have 20% in all diesel sold.

I would greatly encourage anyone who has a diesel to research this MUCH more. I really don't know why the trucking industry would be against it, unless they have a vested interest in Big Oil... It is only going to make their trucks run better for longer, and help the environment at the same time...

[This message has been edited by Texas_Hale (edited 06-06-2001).]

[Texas_Hale]

By the way, I just read the article http://www.truckinginfo.com/news/news_detail.asp?news_id=42555. I would like to point out that the University of Idaho has been doing research since 1979. http://www.uidaho.edu/bae/biodiesel/ I think the 22 years is adequate research. Only when BD is ran at very high percentage rate mixtures and 100% does it eat away the rubber, and The cost of production will go down DRAMATICALLY once it is being produced. I think that Bill Frank should do his homework before he talks. Right now is the PERFECT time to make this transition. If we wait till OPEC decides to give us more oil therby charging us less per barrel, then it won't happen and we will stay slaves to the middle east, who isn't exaclty our best friends in the world.