TDR website is like an angry mob.

[GMCTRUCK]

Does anyone here ever check out the TDR website? Talk about an angry, insecure, group of people. All those guys do is verbally castrate GM and Ford, Duramax and Powerstroke. One of their favorite arguements is to compare engine components of a big inline 6 to V8s. Of course the pistons/connecting rods are gonna be bigger. Each cylinder has to be bigger to get close to the same displacement. Also the engine is 6 cylinders long so the crank is also gonna be longer than a V8 crank. A Ford 300 staight six has a bigger crank than the 460. Which one would you rather drive? Their other favorite arguement is that a Dodge weighs more than a similar Chevy and thus it is a beefier truck. Other than the weight (unsprung by the way) of the straight front axle and the Cummins, where do they think the Dodge is beefier? Have they looked at the frames of their trucks? As thin as our sheet metal is if you took into account the weight of the Cummins and straight front axle of the Dodge compared to the weight of the Duramax and IFS of the GM, the Dodge would end up weighing less if all was equal. So I wonder where they skimped. Who are these guys kidding besides themselves? The Cummins is certainly an awesome motor but please, without it no one would buy those trucks and Dodge would be lucky if they were selling Dakotas and K cars.

[stretch]

I must agree, stupidity runs amock on that site. I will say one thing positive for it - If you are a Dodge owner (Sorry!), the site is a God-send much like this site is for GM owners. Once you filter through the BS, its quite informative.

[turbokid]

I'm not a dodge owner, but it seems like this site is similar, with all the talk of how the duramax is the best...
tongue.gif
Flames away!

BTW- The components are bigger in places where they don't have to be for a longer stroke... connecting rods, main bearing journals...
And one rod per crankshaft throw, not two...

I just had to say it! :D
But seriously, drive what you want, it's your money...

The majority of the guys over there seem to be good guys, but some of them do have a little bit of the 'better than thou' attitude...

[ 12-29-2002: Message edited by: turbokid ]</p>

[toyboxrv]

When I need a really good laugh I always go to the TDR. Some of those fools go way beyond brand loyalty or pride in the truck they bought. A frequent comment is that all V8 diesels are junk and only inline 6's will do the job. When pickuptruck.com did their comparison of new diesel pickups even though the Cummins lost to a D/A, they still acted like their beloved truck had walked all over it. They even used a 4.1 gear as an excuse using it as a disadvantage for towing. I might buy a new truck in the next year or so and will consider all three available, but wouldn't be choosing a Dodge solely because of the stupid opinions frequently expressed on the TDR.

[hoot]

Dodge makes a nice truck and when you get into modified hp/tq wars, they have reason pound their chests.

[NH2112]

When the Duramax has been around for 20 or so years I'm sure there will be just as many performance mods for it as there are for the Cummins 5.9L. As far as Dodge trucks go, my opinion mirrors an earlier poster's - if it wasn't for the Cummins, they'd be mediocre. Give me a Ford for toughness or a Chevy for ride anyyday. I'd buy a Dodge and put up with the rattles, squeaks, terrible steering and tire wear, etc solely because of the Cummins under the hood.

I don't think an engine cares whether it has 6 cylinders in line or 8 in a V configuration, or whether there's 1 rod per crankshaft throw or 2 - if the V8 was an inherently weaker design it'd be weaker for both gassers and diesels. It obviously isn't weaker for gassers. If you had a 5.9L with a crank no beefier than that of a 6.2L you wouldn't be able to make nearly as much power, and conversely a V8 with a huge bottom end (i.e. PSD) can make just as much power per liter as a 5.9L. I think inline diesels became the most common configuration because of the ease of maintenance (everything's right there on the side of the engine) and not because they're inherently stronger or more durable than a V8.

[JohnM]

After reading the various truck sites for the last two years or so, I am of the opinion that all the sites have mostly responsible, mature individuals participating and most of the participants are trying to help others. Some even enjoy the comraderie of poking a little(lot) of fun at their internet buddies. All of the sites also seem to have a few participants, and there are only a few, who take some pleasure at severly criticizing the competition(the owners and their vehicles). It appears to me that not one site or another has a absolute monopoly on virtue or civil behavior.

Comments by hoot and others about other owners and their vehicles seem to me to be accurate, responsible and fair. It seems that all pickup truck manufacturers today build good/great trucks. Those who have an "off" year are punished by the marketplace and they change to compete. All vehicles have an "issue" or two which are usually taken care of by recalls or warranty. In my opinion, no particular vehicle is absolutely "The best pickup". Just as no particular site has a monopoly on virtue or civil bahavior, no one vehicle, in my opinion has a monopoly on excellence.

Many vehicle owners are brand loyalists and that is okay(thank you America). Let's praise their loyalty. Others are not brand loyalists. Let's celebrate their right to support a competitor.

Most of us purchase what will best meet OUR needs at the time. Instead of criticising others and their vehicles we should commend them on their purchase, welcome the difference of opinion, wish them good luck, smooth roads, low maintenance, and no remote break-downs. Let's all be thankful that we are fortunate enough to have the resources and time to enjoy our purchase.

Best Wishes and Happy New Year to all!

JohnM
Member #2049

[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: JohnM ]</p>

[TimA]

Hay I resent those remaks. My DAD (TDR member) and BROTHER own a Dodge and yes they have Cummins in them. My brother's truck a 162hp and me and my dad make fun of him because of it. My dad has about 300hp. And his truck will pull my boat (23FT seafox) like there is nothing there. I was smart and got a Blazer. It has about 300hp. But you are right. They make fun of everything except the cummins. I have to agree Cummins make the best engins in the world. So HA. :eek:

[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: TimA ]

[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: TimA ]</p>

[rjschoolcraft]

TimA: I think the folks at Caterpillar might disagree with you.

[turbokid]

Just curious, TimA, what did you do to that 6.2 to get 300 hp?

BTW- don't mean to get technical, but I can list half a dozen ways that my isuzu is mechanically better than the cummins... Don't get me wrong, the cummins is a good engine, but it has been cheapened in order to produce so many of them...

[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: turbokid ]</p>

[TimA]

I am the second owner. The engine was completely rebuilt and turned up. Quite a bit of black smoke @ full throttle. Good for smoking out Volvos. I like my Chevy but my dad isn't crazy about GMs. He also owned several of those yellow engines and had nothing but trouble. One of them spent more than 1/2 of it's first year @ cat under warranty. The turbo fell off, 12 water pumps, injector pump, injectors, head gaskets. He was so disgusted he will never buy a Cat again!

[TimA]

If you go back a few year, when cummins had 12 valve engines instead of the 24 valve engines, they were better mechanically. They were also easier to rebuild. The six silider engine is better than are V8. Only after the truck, trans, exhaust system, and turbo charger have been tweeked a little.

[ 12-31-2002: Message edited by: TimA ]</p>

[Diverguy]

I recently registered for a password on ford-diesel.com to see if I could get any more information on the new 6.0l diesel. I've seen some brand flaming on this forum but nothing like some of the guys at fd site. There are endless confrontational statements like "Chevy sucks." or "Dodge sucks." without supporting their claims. I found it difficult to try and stay there filter through all verbal diarrhrea to find the information I needed. I felt uncomfortable being there.
I have a friend who is driller/blaster and is one of those rare statisical anaomlies. He has had the vast misfortune it seems of getting every lemon that comes off the Ford assembly line for a company truck. He has a pathological hatred of Fords. It is fun though, to bait him to get him on a Ford rant. :rolleyes:

[hoot]

It's funny cause I used to hang there and got booted many times for confronting them and promoting GM. They allow their own to bash but not outsiders.

I was originally told that they did not stand for brand bashing. My how things have changed. Must be the pursuit of the almighty buck.

It is a great site though with a huge following.

[GMCTRUCK]

I have checked out thedieselstop.com and they don't seem to do as much bashing as the TDR. It does seem that they have their hands full with 2003 truck problems though. There are a couple of members with 6.0s in the shop with problems that the techs don't know how to fix yet and for some reason all of the 2003 owners are unhappy with their steering compared to their previous superdupers. After owning both I would still rather own the Ford over the Dodge but would not give Ford a dime because of all the $ they have been giving to the "tree hugger" groups.

[GMCTRUCK]

BTW, a lot of guys here in CT who plow have been getting Superduty trucks lemoned because of constant steering and lockout hub problems which is another reason why I decided against the Ford. Other than the whole "tree hugger" deal.

[NickLeinonen]

well.. interesting thread. i am a member of the big 3 diesel related sites [here for gm, dieselshop for the ford and tdr for the dodge] they all put good engines in their rigs. i still think the ford has the nicest looking truck, with dodge/gmc second and the new redesigned chevy last. my rating for the engines goes
1. cummins,
1.5 duramax,
3. t444e powerstroke,
4. vt365 powerstroke.

the duramax and cummins as far as i am consirned are interchangeable for which i like best at the moment. i do not like the new psd with the egr system :(


my next truck will be dodge, and it will have a HO cummins and a 6 speed [i don't like diesel/automatic combo, but that seems to be the popular thing amongst pickup trucks]

[TimA]

Like I said before my dad is a TDR member. But he also believes in fairness to all the others. He had 2 Powerstrokes and a GMC. He tells me the real reason he bought the Dodge is because of the engine and the interior room. He just can't believe that every time he turns around something else happens to the truck itself. He looked at the new duramax and on occasion drives his bosses truck and he just can't get comfortable in it. But he never said that any of the three (dodge,gm or ford) were bad trucks. It's just what he likes. My grandfather and him had all Cummins powered Autocar trucks and they never let him down. So he remained loyal to Cummins.

[TimA]

showed you

[DieselSport]

Our brand loyalty should be to Diesel, rather than an emblem on the front of a truck.

[gitchesum]

I hate to see all the members of the TDR generalized as a group of brand bashers. There's much more to the TDR than that.
I know here are a few guys like like to bash but that is less than 1% of the total memberhip. You got guys like that at every site. Even here.

I'd really like to see more Duramax owners come out to the events that promote all brands. You'll find out that most of the talk on the wesites is simply keyboard racing. Everyone I've met in person does not reflect the person percieved on the various webisites

[ 01-27-2003: Message edited by: gitchesum ]</p>