Need a real Tractor. Input please!!

[Alli-max]

Okay Agri guys.... Need some input.

I am looking to buy a tractor. Somewhere between a 42 and 60 HP Diesel 4WD Tractor. I really like the Deutz Fahr Agrolux 60 ( http://www.samedeutzfahr.com/df-products.html ), but know NOTHING about their realiability. PTO is rated at 57 HP, can obviously run a 15' batwing, 6' cutter, and a 6' loader, etc., etc.

What do you know about these? The SAME dealership sells Massey, and said the DF is a far superior product. I was looking at a Kubota, but I understand they are slightly lighter duty products (not from this guy, but other sources).

ALSO.... Price on this model (no attachments) is $19,800, with the industrial tires (dont need agri tires). That seems to be a pretty good deal to me, but I dont know for sure. I can get into a 50 HP with a 6' Aleo Loader all ready on there for $21,000, so that might fit me better. (I will probably get a 10' batwing, not the 15', so the 60 HP might be a little much).

Now the other problem. The Dmax will yank it fine. But will be splitting it with the old man and he has a 5.3L Tahoe. Bumper pull trailer not a problem. Less than 10K.

Sorry mods if this might be off topic, but this site sees a lot of guys that use these type of products, and I did pay my dues. I really need some input here before I spend ~$30,000 on something.

[01F350SRW]

I'll go ahead and tell ya, I've owned and worked with every name brand products, and never have experienced any problems with any. The DF is one heck of a machine, but I would go w/ a Kubota, or a mostly a John Deere, they seem to be easier to find parts for and maintance shops are usually just right around the corner. Can't say the same for the DF.

Just my .02 man

But nothing Runs Like a Deere, theres just a certain pride in it... :cool:

[needbigtruck]

I don't mind answering, it's a diesel what more do we need to know. I have a compact Kubota, so I am kind of brand loyal. I looked at your link and was surprised to read that the engine is air cooled. 57 horse and air cooled?? Must work though otherwise they wouldn't still make them. Probably has some real advantages. I went over to the Kubota site http://www.kubotagrandl30.com/ or http://www.kubota.com/msput.cfm these are in your HP range (don't know about price), and I can attest that at least my compact is no lightweight I would assume their full size tractors are up to any job also. You may be surprised when you read about where the "Deer's" come from. At least in the compact's they are powered by Yammar engines, so just like almost everything else there isn't much "American" pride left in anything any more. Kubota manufacture thier own diesels. They have a whole division just for engine developement. As far as pulling it, you may have to lend your Dad the MAX so that he doesn't hurt his little Tahoe straing to do the work that only a real truck should do.

[ 12-03-2002: Message edited by: needbigtruck ]</p>

[gardnerteam]

Biggest problem with any brand is parts and service. Second problem is to make sure it is a US tractor and not a gray market shipped in over the border. There are almost no parts for gray market brands and many of the parts are not interchangeable with US sale tractors. For parts and service, John Deere and Kubota have the best networks and you will have the least down time. I buy John Deere, work the hell out of them, and have had superior results and super resale value. I can run a tractor for about 3 years and 250 hours and get 80 to 90% of it back on resale. I also buy John Deere factory lease tractors when I can which the dealers can get - they are tractors leased to vinyards or orchards in California yearly and dispersed over the US dealer network. Can have from 30 to 200 hours on them and if dealer has several, can save big $. Last one I bought had 32 hours and I saved $4500. Stick with JD or Kabota - best value, easiest to find parts for.

[hoot]

John Deere just finished designing their own brand new line of American Made diesel engines. I wonder if they're going start putting them in their smaller tractors?

BTW: Alli-max, great topic!

[ 12-04-2002: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>

[DieselDennis]

All of this information you've got so far is good.

Yes the Deutz Fahr tractor engines are air cooled. And these things don't get hot. They stay cool and no radiator/water pump/coolant to worry with.

Deere's compacts are made in Augusta, Georgia. And as hoot mentioned JD has just redesigned their smaller engines. Check back a few months in a Diesel Progress article for this info. Yanmar is Japanese and is a Deere subsidary. And I would expect they would continue to build the small Deere engines.

Now back on the tractor talk. I'd go with Deere, Kubota, or MF. Without a doubt Deere has a fine product out there. But Kubotas are awfully plentiful in the construction sites. And I have the utmost respect of Massey Fergouson tractors. Have one personally and they are a VERY popular tractor in the compact ( less than 85 HP ) tractor market. The Kubotas come in several different variations. I've been on a 50 HP Kubota that I thought was a little light, but rode on a 45 HP Kubota that had more iron than a tank. So go figure. I think you'll notice that Kubota has a lot of features you usually only find on larger tractors, but Deere has about caught up with all this and they're pretty even now. And I don't know what kind of business you're running here, or how much you're pressed for time. You would need a VERY GOOD MF or Kubota dealership to keep up with the factory support that a mediocre Deere dealership can provide. Online parts, CD Manuals to everything, and they can have whatever part you want to their door by 8 a.m. the next day.
So give the Kubota and MF a close look over. These will likely serve you well. But I think I'd put money on the Deere. Don't worry about it costing you a little more up front. That green paint holds its value really well.

And that 5.3 will put it just fine. Won't pull it like the diesel will I'm sure, but it will be fine. Tell him not to get in a hurry and keep the weight over the trailer axles. Good luck!

[Tractor]

Alli-Max
Stay away from the Deutz is my thoughts. One of my farmer friends had a 100 horse tractor,air cooled and yes it over heated. Poor parts network. He now runs a John Deere which is what he run before he got cheap and bought a Deutz. Green holds resale. I personal run Ford tractors which is now New Holland. A bit cheaper then John Deere. Good parts network, but don,t need to get any parts other then filters. That size is made in Basseldon Essex, England. And Great Brittian is helping the Hell out of this country in our over sea efforts. Kabota,s country is not doing too much. Try checking out the Genisis engine in the Fords I know you will be HAPPY.
TRACTOR and T.J with a couple of slightly cranked 6.5,s.....

[c5dura]

I got a JD 4700 that I purchased new about 3 years ago (when it first came out). 4wd, 50hp, 12 speeds forwards & reverse. I got a 460 loader with it and abuse the heck out of it every chance I get. The JD dealer has replaced the cylinders on the loader twice under warranty and never even blinked. (I was doing stuff with it that really should be done with a dozer or large CAT loader). Parts are very reasonably priced at the local JD shop.

Hydraulics are very strong as is the drivetrain as a whole. I really like how the whole bucket assembly comes off in 2 or 3 minutes. It will pull a 8' disc at a pretty good clip too.

I paid something like $30k for it with a 460 loader and a 6' Woods Bush Hog. It always starts right up. I believe the engine is made by Yanmar (sp?). Its the largest "compact" tractor JD makes.

Here's a pic without the loader:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/Hudson.jpg

[ 12-04-2002: Message edited by: c5dura ]</p>

[Paintdude]

Wow Dura, thats one heck of a tractor.. smile.gif

I have a 1980 Yanmar,diesel 4 by 4 with loader, 5 ft finish mower and 5 ft rear blade..A awsome tractor to say the least.Pup-fossil compared to yours...The loader has a seperate pump and has down pressure..It had 319 hrs on it when I bought it a year ago for 3,000 bucks..Best purchase I have made in a long time..My 20 HP Cub 2072 with 5 ft belly mower and hyd angle 54" blade never gets used anymore..I should sell it..

Buying a real tractor is just like buying a diesel truck, once you have one you can never go back.. smile.gif

[trailrider0493]

There are several Kiota tractors running around where I live in WV. They look a lot like a Kubota, but several dollars cheaper. They also have a great warranty. A friend of mine has one and he says it is the best warranty he has ever seen. And he has been around a while. He has done some work for me with it and it does a good job.

[AKDmax]

Not very functional for what you need, but cool anyway. http://www.blackmagicracing.com/2002pages/Gallery/GardenTractor/deere02.htm

[Wheat Whacker]

I guess my first thought would be parts and service. As stated above JD is good but tends to be a little pricey but seem to hold decent resale, New Holland would be my first choice because they are not so pricey on parts or purchase price, easier to work on a little simpler (at least on the bigger tractors). I would probably stay away from the Agco(Duetz)for the parts and service reason. If they are anything like the older Agco's(Allis-Chalmers etc...)they are probably a good outfit and as for the air cooled engine it used to be an option a few years ago in their Gleaner combines and guess what the guys I knew that had them ran cooler than the liquid cooled. As for the Massey never been my favorite again parts and service. If memory serves me right Massey is now owned by Agco too. Don't know anything about the Kubota's. I guess the short version is if you have a good dealer with good parts and service and you will never leave the area the Agco should be fine but if you leave the area to use it you may have problems with parts or service. I have lived on a farm about all my life in farm country and we have to drive almost 90 miles to get parts for our Allis Vs. 15-30 miles for the JD, NH, or CIH.

Sorry got so long ;)

Just my 2 pennies.

[BobNelson]

Parts and Service, and ease of getting to them is important. Normally I would prefer a JD, but my local JD dealer rips folks real bad. Only the die hard go there. My rig is blue, and the New Holland dealer provides excellent service. Nearest Kubota dealer is 150 Miles.

JD is slightly heavier. A plus when pulling in the field. Look at how easy the implements attach and remove. How quick does the front loader change out? The newer series of both JD and NH change quickly. Same with a mower deck, if that is needed. JD has a better 3pt system, but NH is stronger.

Price is always an issue, but how many of us have stuff sitting around broken or useless, because it was the cheeper item. I could have had a noisy Dodge/Ford, but chose to spend more $$ for a good product and great ride. Ya get what ya pay for.

Good luck in your quest.

Bob at the Vineyard.

smile.gif

[ 12-09-2002: Message edited by: BobNelson ]</p>

[rjschoolcraft]

In two words: "John Deere"

I grew up on a farm and in the eighties (during high school and college...I know, that dates me) I did a lot of custom farming for my uncle and friends of my dad. On the family farm, we always had Deere...a lot of old two-cylinder stuff. Can't hardly hurt 'em. I learned to plow at age 10 on a 4020 with 5 bottom 16" point plow...great tractor. My uncle ran a 4620, an 8630 articulated 4wd and a 2030 utility. The only problems he ever had with the 4620 was with the shift linkage. The dealer thought it was in the tranny and had the tractor for several weeks one spring. They rotated used tractors to us so that we could keep going. The first was a Deutz...pathetic machine. Poorly laid out controls, cheap feel...and it was newer than the 4620. Next they sent a Ford 9000...better than the Deutz, but no match for the 4620. I also farmed for a friend of my dad's. He used Allis-Chalmers. I ran a 7020 Allis for him...a lot newer than the 4620. Pathetic machine, I hated it. There is a reason why Deere is the only Ag tractor manufacturer that hasn't merged or been bought out...They are the best, hands down. The dealer network is great and they are well built machines. I would never want one of the others...ever!

I also worke for Cat for a while in their Transmission Business Unit. Part of that time, I was in the AG tractor tranny group. They were attempting to use their dominance in the construction market to make inroads on Deere in the Ag market. They have now given up and have sold their prodcution to AgCo. Even Cat couldn't dent Deere's Ag dominance.

Just my two cents!

[4meseb]

JOHN DEERE ALL THE WAY.
NUFF SAID. MY WIFE SAYS I BLEED GREEN.

[Southard]

I have had very good luck with the Deutz F3l10ll engines in trenchers and manlifts. I don't know of any use that is harder on an engine than a trencher. They are running at 100% load for almost their entire life. Engine parts can be obtained through Stewart & Stevenson if the engines on the tractors are the same as the industrial engines.

I do have to admit that John Deere has a wonderful parts distribution network. You can get a part if you need it, no matter how old it is, which can't be said of all manufacturers.

Southard

[TimA]

My dad is selling a 19?? 980A Cat frontend loader. Motor just rebilt if there is 200 hours on it, it's a lot.

[ 12-30-2002: Message edited by: TimA ]</p>

[DIESELMAN 6.5]

Anything green you are buying the paint and the name.Deere has good products but way overrated.Cat sold to agco to get rid of overhead cost.Cat will make engines and trannys for the challeger and all agco tractors in the next few yrs. New holland would be a good choice ,as would be the orange tractors including the underrated allis chalmers OF 30 YRS ago.What ever you buy ,buy from a dealer that will give you good service and work with you if you have warranity problems.

[1822]

Any of the 3 cyl. Ford diesels from the late 60's on up to the mid 90's are a safe investment. I have some with 18,000 hrs. on them with very little in the way of repair work. You can rebuild just about every part on them and they seem to be ageless.

[king D]

i farm over 3000 acres of cotton,225 acres of peanuts,1400 acres of soybeans and 500 acres of wheat.90 percent of my new purchases are green.however in the small tractor line i teel you it is hard to beat a new holland.for price and lift capacity.and hydraulic flow,they will probally out do a deer any day.now if you were getting a tractor with any size on it jd is light years ahead of the rest in all aspects like cab vision,lift hydraulics,interior noise ext.any way each year we rent a new holland 35 hp and a deer 35 hp to dig drains with in the spring and the guys running the tractors always want the blue one. the tranny is way ahead. just my opinion.however if your gonna want to trade tractors or get ride of it one day the extra dough for a deer will come back and more at trade in or sale time.jess