Bad fuel - watch out! (long)

[Steve StLaurent]

I'm a Cummins guy but this is a problem that we all share so now that my problem is fixed I'm sharing it with you Ford and GM guys so you hopefully don't have to go through this or at least have ideas on how to deal with it if it happens to you. These are quotes from my messages (edited) on the TDR site:
1: I got my first bad load of fuel this weekend. I put 19 gallons in at a Shell station and within 2 miles of leaving the place the truck started hesitating and I checked my fuel pressures - 2 psi differential across the filter whereas I had none before the fill up. I drained some fuel out of the water seperator and it ran ok for a little while then started hesitating again. I stopped back by the station on my way back home and got the managers phone number and let them know about the situation. I changed my fuel filter that night and had no restriction across the filter after getting the engine going again. Within 2 miles I had a 2 psi restriction again! Talked with Dave's Diesel (a GLTDR supporter and where I was on Saturday for their grand opening) and with their advice it looks like I've got algae or bugs in the fuel (there is a sulfur smell and the fuel is brown). They recommended draining the fuel out of the tank by running the engine and opening the drain valve to pump most of the fuel out of it, then once the tank is down close to empty to turn off the engine and bump the starter to just run the lift pump and get the rest out. Then put in fresh fuel, treat it with a biocide, and a double dose of stanadyne fuel treatment and change the filter again. I'm going to be doing all that in about an hour here.
Now the bad part - talked with the fuel supplier and they say they pumped 450 gallons this weekend and noone else has complained so they don't want to do anything. I'm going to send in a sample of the fuel I drain out tonight and send it in for an analysis and will go back to them with those results.

2: I just got done for tonight, drained the entire tank until it was dry, refilled it with premium diesel. I put 36 gallons into my 34 gallon tank, btw - and after pulling 5 gallons into it from a can (the rest was 5 miles down the road) my gauge was still WELL below the E mark. Treated it with a shock treatment of biocide (1.7 ounces for 34 gallons), and a double dose of Stanadyne performance formula. After all of that and then changing the fuel filter YET AGAIN and driving 15 miles I saw no hesitation but at the end of it saw a 1 psi restriction again (0 psi up till that point) - looks like one more fuel filter change and hopefully I'll be done with this episode other than recouping my costs! I'm just REALLY glad I had my fuel pressure gauge on the truck and was able to read pre and post filter pressures! Without that data and having changed the filter 3 times now (4 times total when I change it again in a couple of days) I would have been second guessing myself big time! I'll be VERY interested to hear the suppliers thoughts tomorrow and I'm sure he'll be VERY surprised to hear my response back if I don't like what I hear! I never thought I'd have to deal with bad fuel (it ALWAYS happens to the other guy, right?) but I've learned my lesson - truck stops only from now on period, I may even buy a bigger tank to be sure I can always buy at a truck stop.

3: Good news to report - put 70 miles on the truck today with no misses or hesitation . I have a 1 psi restriction across the filter right now which is well within specs but I'm going to change it out once more in a week or two to get the last of the crud out. I think I'm going to add the biocide to the next couple of tankfulls too, just to be sure. I left them a message today letting them know it was definately there fault and that the truck was running fine again and to call me so we can figure out how to remedy the situation by reimbursing me for my expenses. $290 in parts, supplies, and fuel plus about 7 hours of my time - I'll settle for $710 from them - if they aren't willing then the GLTDR will be paying the station a visit turning their parking lot and pumps into one big parking lot for an entire Saturday.


I'll post how this eventually turns out on here and if anyone's near Michigan and wants to join us for our park in (assuming they don't pay off) at the Shell station on M-50 in Charlotte, MI if they don't take care of this properly then let me know.

-Steve St.Laurent
President of the GLTDR

[quadrunner500]

I'm not in favor of this. First of all, I think blocking their pumps, and disrupting commerce is probably illegal. Secondly, you have your mind made up without getting the results back from your diesel fuel sample. You should get that, and then pursue a legal remedy.

[Steve StLaurent]

How'd I guess that I'd get a response like this on this site since I'm a Dodge owner? First, did you see anywhere in my post that said I wasn't going to wait for my analysis results? Second, I had put 200 miles on the truck over the prior week since I had fueled up the last time. Within 2 MILES of fueling up at that station my truck was hesitating and had a 2 psi restriction across the filter when I had ZERO before fueling up there (and had ZERO for the previous 5,000 miles before that!) - do you think that all that algae grew within 5 minutes of fueling up at a new station when it HADN'T grown in the previous week? That filter had 5,000 miles on it, I put in a new filter along with diluting their fuel with 10 gallons of fresh fuel and see a 0 psi restriction after bleeding the system and WITHIN a mile see a 2 psi restriction again!

Note that I smelled SULPHUR in the tank which is indicitave of algae in the fuel that I DIDN'T smell before fueling up there! I drain the entire tank, fill it with fresh fuel, plus biocide, and then change the filter yet AGAIN and the truck is now running fine. Come on now - how much more proof do you need?

As to the legality of it, seeing as how they aren't willing to do anything about it I have a call into the local police department to check on the legality of what I'm planning - if parking in the lot isn't legal then I'll find out what is and do that! I did say in my message that I would ONLY do this IF they didn't stand behind their product! I'm trying to get the info out there early enough so that MORE people don't get screwed by them like I did - would you rather I waited for a week or more to get results back to put out warnings? Jeez - I thought I was doing you guys a favor by letting you know what can possibly happen EVEN if you take ALL the precautions in the world and giving the steps necessary to deal with the situation IF it came up. I could have simply left my info on the TDR site and let many of the new Dmax owners here (many of which have never owned a diesel before) learn this for themselves?

There isn't a person in the world that is more attentive to the maintenance of their truck than me - I send in oil samples of ALL of my fluids on a regular basis, monitor my fuel pressures pre and post filter, I have detailed logs of everything I've ever done to my truck, mileage, etc. That's how I had an analysis company already on the line to test the fuel.

I'm tempted to GIVE UP on you guys! I figured this was a situation that regardless of how much power you're making, or your brand loyalties, or whatever that this would be a point that we'd all be on the same page about! I for one would hope that this company would be willing to step up to the plate and admit when there's a problem and take care of it. Failing that - I'd like to think that I can solve the situation myself without a lawyer taking a cut off the top - what has happened to our society?

Maybe you are a lawyer quadrunner? I personally feel that if I have the proof (which I already feel I have - see the above info, but I will STILL wait on laboratory results to be sure) that I should be able to take whatever actions are within my legal rights - and that INCLUDES picketing (and hopefully includes parking in their lot - I will know for sure when I get a call back from the PD).

Try to think of this quadrunner - how many people are not as exacting as I am in my record keeping or do not have a fuel pressure gauge that can monitor pre and post filter pressures (99.5% of the people out there I'd bet - do YOU have a fuel pressure gauge on your truck and do YOU do oil analysis?) If one of those people has a fuel problem what CHANCE do they have of getting satisfaction from the fuel supplier when someone with all the data I have can't get any? Hopefully future responses here will be more realistic and I don't have to totally write this page off.

-Steve


[This message has been edited by Steve StLaurent (edited 05-08-2001).]

[Showgood1]

You go boy!!! Don't give up on all of us! Conoco several years ago had a bad batch of gas around here and damaged several vehicles. They did make good and payed for alot of carburator and injector replacements. You know its a sad state of affairs when you have to through a fit to get any service. With the cost of trucks and everything else these days a person should demand higher quality. Good luck don't give up on all of us and please keep us posted.

[Steve StLaurent]

Thanks Showgood1 - I will keep you guys informed on the situation as this is something that affects us all.

Quadrunner500 - nothing in your original post said anything other than critizing me for what I had posted and was planning on - how did I misunderstand you? If I somehow missed something in your post then I apologize. We will have to agree to disagree when it comes to the "But if you persist in this picketing, civil disobedience crap, you've lost me pal!" because our legal system works VERY slowly! I feel that I have enough proof now to blame this supplier completely but will STILL wait for the independant results to do something and will then only do what the law allows - as you said "a LEGAL remedy"! Assuming the fuel supplier continues to stonewall me if I took your advice it would be at least a year before I got my day in court to state my case - and that ENTIRE time other diesel owner's would be getting bad fuel from this supplier and incurring those costs themselves - and the majority of them would not have the data to back up their cases nor possibly even remember which station they fueled up at to go after them! I guarantee if the results come back from the lab showing bad fuel and the station or supplier isn't willing to deal with it that I and many others will be picketing that station in one way or another (whatever is legal according to the local PD and I will coordinate the time that we are getting there, etc so they are prepared and can deal with the traffic) to at LEAST warn other diesel owners in the area before they incur the expense and frustration that I have even if I don't get a settlement from them. For your information I have received a minimum of 6 emails already from people willing to be there (3 of them from over 300 miles away because they had to deal with a like situation in their area and didn't get any support and want to support me because of that). I have offered to pay for their fuel if it becomes necessary for them to come here - all I really want is my costs back and to teach this fuel supplier a lesson. I personally feel that it's my duty as a consumer to deal with this situation - too many people are willing to just sit back and let others or the courts deal with this stuff (one of the reasons it would take at least a year to get this into court, btw). Whatever I do will be totally 100% legal and will not have to involve the courts in any way shape or form so as to create a bigger problem. I'd love to see the shoe on the other foot and see you be out of pocket $300 in fuel and parts costs alone plus 7 hours of your personal time (time that I could have spent with my 16 month old daughter - that will never be replaced, btw) and see how you felt about it then. If someone else within 200-300 miles is dealing with the same situation I am right now I'd be glad to drive to their town to support them as well - do me a favor and give me your full name and email address so that if it happens to you I'll know not to be one of the people to come to your aid and will just tell you to pursue a legal remedy.

Edit: note that so I don't look like an idiot, the post from Quadrunner that I was responding to in this message has been deleted.

-Steve


[This message has been edited by Steve StLaurent (edited 05-09-2001).]

[Diesel Dan]

Steve,

I feel for ya, I worry about getting bad fuel whenever filling up at a new station. I am really interested in how this turns out, keep us informed. I lost a 6.2 due to contaminated oil from a lube shop, didn't bother pursuing it because it had 210K on it. Oil analisys found very high silicon content.

------------------
1988 chevy crew cab
1 ton 4x4, 6.2L, TH400, 4.10s

[SoMnDMAX]

Steve- I know how you feel!! A couple of winters ago, the pipeline supplying south central Minnesota was supplying us with bad gasoline. Hundreds of vehicles were wounded by this fuel, basically eating the pintles out of the injectors. The fuel companys and the stations wouldn't stand behind any of it. Luckily for those who were fortunate enough to have warranty coverage on their vehicles, GM, Ford, and D/C covered these problems. Those who did not have warranty coverage were quite frankly screwed. Most faced at a minimum an injector cleaning, but most needed the injectors replaced!! Not a cheap deal at all. I was fortunate enough that my truck was fixed under warranty.

Don't let them get away with this. You have every right to pursue this issue with that Shell station!! I don't know if I personally would do a "park in", but if you feel it's right, by all means, do it!! More power to you!!!! I would be there to help if I lived closer!!

I might add, as far as I'm concerned, information like this is ALWAYS WELCOMED, regardless of the brand "bloodlines"!!!! We all share a common bond; diesel fuel, trucks, torque, and being one up on the other guy. Am I brand loyal? Yes. Will I knock others for being brand loyal? He** no. It's their right to own whatever the he** they want, regardless of how I may feel!!

Thanks for the info, Steve!!!!

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www.picturetrail.com/somndmax (http://www.picturetrail.com/somndmax)

2001 Chevy 2500HD Duramax, Allison
Ext. Cab SB
Forest Green
16x8 Centerline Rattlers
285/75-16 Goodyear ATS
Diesel Page member #6184

[DmaxMaverick]

Thanks for the info, Steve.

I can relate, having gone through a similar experience myself in '89. I was fortunate that mine wasn't the only complaint. There were about 10 others during the time I was there. The Texaco station I fueled at had a field rep, or someone like that, show up and test the fuel in my tank as well as others. He found the same contaminants in each and arrangements were made with a local shop to have the clean-out performed at their expense. It took a couple days from the bad fill up to back on the road, but they handled it well. I was given an extra filter and was told not to change it until the one they put on failed. It took about a week or so. I replaced it and have been "normal" (fuel wise) since.

The rep did explain that with diesel fuel tanks (vehicle and storage), algae can, and usually does, developed in a tank. At some point, the algae can be 'unstabilized' by some substances and come loose all at once, causing all kinds of problems. He said that the algae usually grows and dies in small amounts, in cycles, effected by temperature and additives, and usually doesn't cause problems. The most effected situations were the persons that filled the tanks at above half tank or so frequently. Apparently, replacing most of the fuel supply frequently minimizes the algae build-up.

With your situation being at a Shell station, the manager should have had his supplier send out a rep, as Texaco did in my case. Could it be that the station manager or owner had fuel delivered by other than a Shell supplier (a big no-no)? If so, I would think that the owner/manager would not notify the supplier and initiate a complaint, as he would have to show his delivery orders. ???


With my experience, I have gotten into the habit of fueling at the same Texaco station every time I can. When I can't, I try to find a Texaco that I can fill at, or at least a name brand station (Chevron, Mobil, etc.).

Again, thanks for the important info Steve. Wish I were closer to your area to lend a hand.

....My two cents

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2001 GMC Sierra SLT 2500HD 4X4 Ext. SB -D/A- INDIGO BLUE - Delivered November 2000

1985 K Blazer 6.2L N/A 500K+ original miles on Engine/Tranny (2 transfer cases, 1 pump, and a few rear ends)
Synthetic Oil!!

[Plasticfantastic]

Thank you Steve. Very informative. I support you trying to protest the buisness that won't stand behind their service. (just BE SURE you've done your research on if they are to blame and what will happen to you-and friends- IF you demonstrate there)(and it sounds like you are sure).
Good luck, keep us posted.

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-------------------------
MEMBER #6086
2001 2500HD CC D/A Onyx/Tan
2001 Z06 Torch red

[Steve StLaurent]

Thanks for the support guys! I will keep you informed on how this turns out. I'm sorry for going off on Quadrunner like I did on your site.

-Steve

[Turbo Al]

Steve: Don't judge us for one reply PLEASE.
I now have to buy my fuel 30 miles from home because the SHELL station is pumping crud -- stinks like SULFUR and smokes like crazy runs like **** and the lowest MPG I have ever seen. I only have three stations close to home Two gipo's and the Shell. Best thing is not to buy from these stations. Complaining got me no where. Same as you "No other complaints sir" UP YOURS SHELL.
BTW I drive a CHEVY and and this brand wars thing doesn't fly with me THANKS for confirming what I already knew. I guess the Chevy filter is a completely different because it didn't plug and the Chevron I am now using (5 cents cheaper per gal) hopefully killed any germs because truck is running great now.
Another case (non-SHELL) was the distinct odor of GASOLINE when I started up the pump I thought it was coming from the guy next to me pumping but checked the diesel I was pumping and that's where it was going from -- heart attack city BIG TIME. I shut it down with about 6 gals put in and complained immediately -- no avail -- I drove very slowly to the next station and filled up.

Turbo Al


[This message has been edited by Turbo Al (edited 05-09-2001).]

[Steve StLaurent]

Turbo Al, that really sucks - that extra 50 mile drive on every fill up must really eat into your usable mileage on a tankfull. I'm certainly not an expert on this - but I know a lot more about it than I did last week. Not trying to scare you but if the fuel was as bad as you say (sulphur smell) then your tank most likely is infected and if your fuel filter didn't clog up then it wasn't trapping much, it could be a problem that is brewing in your tank. All of the experts have told me once you've introduced algae into the system it will be there until you treat it (and sometimes even then). Considering the cost of the injection system on diesels if I were you I'd treat the tank just in case. I bought a product called bio-kleen (there are others out there too) - enough to treat 960 gallons at a maintenance level, or half that at a shock level for $14. I bought mine from the nearest Tractor Supply Company - if you have someplace like that or a diesel shop in your area they should have it. I'd also pick up some Stanadyne performance formula to put in the tank to add lubricity to the fuel while you are treating it. I did a shock dose (2x) of the biocide and a double dose of Stanadyne (the good thing about Stanadyne performance formula is that you won't do any damage to your system even if you way over treat it). The biocide and the algae going through the system will reduce the lubricity of the fuel so the Stanadyne will help make up for that. My next 3 tank fulls of fuel I'll be using a 1.5 dose of the biocide and a double dose of Stanadyne. For a total cost of about $20-$30 you could rest easier knowing you've taken care of it. Make sure you have a couple of spare fuel filters around because when the dead algae goes through the fuel system there's a good chance you'll clog them up. That information is from a Diesel pump shop that I trust completely and they work on all brand diesels. JMHO

-Steve


[This message has been edited by Steve StLaurent (edited 05-09-2001).]

[Turbo Al]

Thanks Steve I was actually going to do that since I read your first post. I use a full tank every 8 days so not worried about it getting out of control. I don't have to go out of my way for fuel it's right by where I work should have been 50 kilometers not miles (30 miles) OPPS. I am not familiar with the Dodge filter, can you see the element when you remove it? Chevy you can so will take a quick peak at it tonight & see what colour it is.

[Steve StLaurent]

Yes you can see the filter Turbo Al. Here's a few pics of my filters. The first one is a brand new filter, the 2nd one is the filter that was on the truck when I got the bad fuel (had 5,000 miles on it prior to the fill up, 180 miles after the fillup), and the third one is the filter that had only 10 miles on it after diluting their fuel with 10 gallons of fresh premium #2. BTW, the filters were not completely plugged but had a 2 psi restriction across the filter (checking fuel pressure before and after the filter) and that was enough to cause the truck to hesitate. I talked with the supplier this morning and he was irate and basically told me to go jump in a lake that they weren't going to do anything. Got a call back from the PD, I can't block their drive in any way but can picket out front. They also gave me a phone number to contact the attorney general's office which I did and they sent me to the agriculture department where I lodged a complaint against the station (through an automated system). They are supposed to look into it and contact me back.

-Steve

http://my.voyager.net/stevest/filt1.jpg http://my.voyager.net/stevest/filt2.jpg http://my.voyager.net/stevest/filt3.jpg

[This message has been edited by Steve StLaurent (edited 05-09-2001).]

[Turbo Al]

No surprise he won't admit to it, if he's that irate I think MAYBE he has had a few complaints and hopes the bunch of you don't get together.
It's too bad they sell such bad fuel or I would get about 20 trucks filling up real slow then check your oil tires wash windows http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[pinehill]

Steve,

First, thanks for the heads-up on the fuel. I'm sure that most of us have never experienced bio-contaminated fuel, but for those who will, your post will be very useful.

Now, a suggestion. Most states have Small Claims Court statues which cover disputes up to $1000 or so. No attorney is required, and the hearings and hearing calendars are expedited. With your meticulous record keeping, I'd think that you'd do well in recovering your costs. To supplement your evidence, you might consider placing an ad in the local newspaper soliciting responses from any others who may have experienced the same problem at that "service" station.

If you mention this course of action to the owner, he might decide that settling with you would be cheaper than settling with a whole group of unhappy diesel rig drivers in the small claims process.

Good luck!


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[Ikhanton]

As a newbie diesel owner this information is quite startling, but execellent need to know info.

Thank you for your detailed descriptions on how to respond to the truck in correcting the problem. If this happened to me, being a newbie, this would of cost me thousands.

Anyway, what I learned here is to look for a gas station that serves diesel alot, this will help keep the chances done on alge or containament growth. Second, find a gas station that has been serving diesel for a long time, especial one that serves the local business fleets.
I have found a gas station that I see all the local business's sending their fleet to. Seems to me from these posts that it's important to look for reliable service stations, cause you can't go far on a gooky gas tank, regardless that your pulling a 10K load better than the unleaded truck guy.

------------------
96' C3500 PU w/6.5L with only 40K miles, very stock

[FormulaPro]

Back to the top...

Steve, just curious, how'd you make out?
Picketing?

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2001 2500HD LT 4x4 SB Ext Cab D/A CoverMaster Cap
2000 HD Softail 1550 Kit, SE Heads, HSR42 Carb, 97Hp/103lbFt @ RW!
2002 Polaris XC800SP 1.25 Track Clicker Shock Sonic Blue X Graphics!

[Steve StLaurent]

Not picketing YET, but I did get a letter today from the Agriculture Department today that "The Motor Fuels Quality Law, P.A. 44 of 1984 does not establish standards for diesel fuel and the department has no jurisdiction over the quality of diesel fuel at this time." http://gltdr.org/forums/graphics/emoticons/eyepop.gif SCARY!! So I bounced it back over to the Attorney Generals office, filed a complaint with them and then faxed this letter to the fuel supplier - any bets on how long it will take before I get a phone call back?


May 14, 2001


Steve St.Laurent
**************
**************
**************
**************

****** ******* Petroleum
***********
***********

To Whom It May Concern:

I filled my truck with diesel fuel at your ***** station in Charlotte, MI on *. ****** and got a bad load of fuel. I have had communications with your company and was told after my last conversation with **** (I talked with him twice) that there was no way I was going to get anything out of you. I filed a complaint today with the Attorney Generals office of Consumer Protection regarding this situation and that complaint is attached to the bottom of this letter. If you would like to attempt to resolve this before they get involved I would be receptive, I can be contacted at either the above numbers or through my office at ***-***-****. Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,
Steve St.Laurent

Attachment:

The complaint you submitted has been recorded.

If you need to reference your complaint, or supply additional information and/or documents in support of your complaint by Email, facsimile or postal mail, refer to your complaint with the following Complaint Identification Number: *********

I have a diesel pickup truck that I use for my personal as well as business use. Due to the possibility of getting bad diesel fuel or having a bad fuel transfer pump, I have installed on my truck a fuel pressure gauge that allows me to check the status of the fuel filter in my truck - a clean filter will show a 0 psi pressure drop across the filter, the dirtier the filter is the higher the pressure drop that will be shown. I regularly check this (every time I drive the truck) to be sure that I'm not starving my injection pump for fuel - as it is a very expensive part to replace ($4000+). I filled my diesel truck up with 18.583 gallons of diesel fuel on May 5th at the station in Charlotte. After leaving the station and getting on I-69 southbound my truck started hesitating going down the road, I checked the fuel pressure gauge and I had a 2 psi restriction across the filter whereas I had none before filling up at that station. I finished my trip that day (180 miles) dealing with the hesitation and stopped back into the station to get the managers name and phone number so I could contact her to discuss the situation. That night I changed my fuel filter (which had 5,000 miles on it, typically changed at 15,000 miles) and had a 0 psi restriction again and the truck started and ran fine, took it out for a test drive within 1 mile it was again hesitating and I again had a 2 psi restriction across the filter. This told me that I had gotten a bad load of fuel from them. My previous fill up had been a week earlier and I had put approximately 300 miles on the truck over that week with no problems. I contacted the station on monday morning and spoke with Debbie, the manager and she put me in contact with Terry of Walter Dimmick Petroleum, he stated that they had no other complaints and wasn't willing to do anything. I contacted a diesel pump shop and they confirmed that it was a bad load of fuel and walked me through the procedure I'd have to take to correct it. This included draining my entire fuel tank (34 gallons worth of diesel fuel that is sitting in my garage in fuel cans) then treating the tank with a biocide (to kill the algae that was in the fuel) along with using a fuel additive to add lubricity to the fuel while running the biocide through the system, then filling the entire tank full, and then change the fuel filter again. Then for the next 3 tank fulls of fuel to run the biocide and the additive and be prepared to change the fuel filter 2 or three additional times because they may clog up with the dead algae. After going through the first step in this procedure (draining the tank, treating and refilling it, and changing the fuel filter) the truck is now running fine and I am continuing with the recommended treatment. I then left a voice mail with ****** Petroleum (who is both the fuel supplier and the owner of the station) to explain that I had verified the problem was there's and that I wanted to be contacted to work out a remedy. Two days later I had not heard back from him so I contacted the station manager again - she understood my frustration and said she would have someone else call me. ***** called me back in approximately two hours very irate over the phone and told me that there was no way I was going to get anything out of them. I told him that I was going to take this to the next level which is when I contacted your office, I was then sent to the Agriculture department as they handle fuel issues. Today I got a letter from the Ag dept stating "You indicated that you experienced a problem with diesel fuel. The Motor Fuels Quality Law, P.A. 44 of 1984 does not establish standards for diesel fuel and the department has no jurisdiction over the quality of diesel fuel at this time." I then contacted your office again explaining the situation and was told to file this complaint. Here are my costs entailed so far (and assuming 1 more filter change and the required additives to finish the treatment):

$54.36 - 34 gallons of contaminted diesel fuel at the shell stations price of $1.599/gal

$100 - 4 fuel filters at $25 ea

$20 - 4 bottles of Stanadyne performance formula additive

$13.49 - BioKleen (biocide)

$55.93 - 7 - 5 gallon fuel cans to store contaminated fuel

$420 - 7 hours of my time @ $60/hr (my hourly rate that I charge my clients), a diesel mechanic would cost $65/hr

For a total of $663.78. The resolution I would like to see is to get reimbursed for my costs of $663.78 and for them to test their tank and treat it so that other owners do not have to go through the frustration that I have. If they wish they can have the contaminated fuel and fuel cans as I have no use for 34 gallons worth of contaminated diesel fuel. I am the President of a diesel truck club (The Great Lakes Turbo Diesel Registry) in the Great Lakes area with over 100 members and am also a staff writer for a national diesel truck magazine (the Turbo Diesel Registry) with over 18,000 subscribers. Someone with less knowledge and resources than I have at my disposal would have incurred MUCH higher costs in remedying this situation. I am hoping to avoid a protest in front of the station along with many other truck owners to warn people fueling at that station of their business practices - but if a satisfactory resolution is not reached that is what will happen. I will of course coordinate that with the local police department to make sure that everything is done in a legal manner and so they can be prepared for the potential traffic congestion. That is why I attempted to talk with them directly and when they were totally uncooperative brought it to you. If you need copies of the receipts please let me know and I will be happy to provide them. Thank you in advance for any assistance you can give me on this.



[This message has been edited by Steve StLaurent (edited 05-14-2001).]

[More Power]

Topics like this can have value to educate diesel owners about buying fuel. First-hand experience with bad fuel can be a powerful learning tool.

I think this thread has already accomplished its educational purpose. Other than yourself, please don't list names, addresses or any other parties involved.

More Power

[This message has been edited by More Power (edited 05-14-2001).]

[LFH]

Below is a phone number for Shell Oil US. I am sure they would be interested in any Shell station serving up bad fuel.

Public Affairs (713)241-4543

Got this number from Shells web page
www.shellus.com (http://www.shellus.com)

[This message has been edited by LFH (edited 05-16-2001).]

[Diesel Dan]

Steve,

Let us know if/when you get a response.



------------------
1988 chevy crew cab
1 ton 4x4, 6.2L, TH400, 4.10s
1993 K3500 crew cab dually 6.5TD auto

[CareyWeber]

Steve,

I share your feelings for bad fuel they should make it right.

I would be be interested in your fuel pressure gages for monitoring fuel filter restriction do you have any pictures and did you use mechcanical or electric gages. Can you tell us more about it?

Thanks
Carey

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<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Carey Weber #1693
<LI>97 GMC K3500 6.5TD 4.10
<LI>Crew Cab SRW
<LI>Dr Lee By-pass Oil Filter
<LI>Delo 400 Dino Juice
<LI>KN
<LI>Jardine Downpipe
<LI>Dual 3" Straight pipes
[/list]

[SoMnDMAX]

Steve, have you had any luck yet?

Hopefully they pay!!!!!

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www.picturetrail.com/somndmax (http://www.picturetrail.com/somndmax)

2001 Chevy 2500HD Duramax, Allison
Ext. Cab SB Forest Green
16x8 Centerline Rattlers,285/75-16 Goodyear ATS
Autometer Boost and EGT gauges
4" Diesel Dynamic's exhaust is here!!!! Just gotta find time to install it....

Diesel Page member #6184

[Steve StLaurent]

No word yet guys, I'm giving the Attorney General's office time to do their thing before doing any more. On the fuel pressure gauge check out this post on the TDR site about it - http://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum3/HTML/002205.html . Not sure if you guys have test ports before and after the filter or not - you should be able to find that in your service manual. There is a procedure listed to test for lift pump operation and filter status in the Dodge/Cummins service manual and that's where I took the test port and pressure data from. If you don't have test ports but you have banjo bolts attaching the fuel lines to the fuel filter cannister you could drill and tap the banjo bolts for npt threads and put senders on there. I'd be glad to answer any questions.

-Steve

[JoeyD]

It stinks to see that a station is not standing behind their product. I worked at a Sunoco while younger and we only had one bad dose of fuel which caused a problem in one 6.5 and the station paid for the tow and did all the work fixing the problem, draining the tank flushing it and new injectors. The owner was woried that it could hurt there sales in diesel and said it was better to take care of the problem to keep a good name. Now if they don't pay I would get everyone you know with a gas engine and go thru one at a time and buy 50cents worth of gas and take your time to check all fliuds and brose the store and use the restroom check your tires throw all the little trash in there barrels. Each person can take at least 15 minutes in there. Good luck

[TRUCKDESIGNER]

Just bringing it back to the top and to find out what, if anything, has happened with the
situation yet, Steve. I also got bad fuel in
my 6.2, but that was about 3 years ago and was wondering if it was the same station or not. The one where I got my fuel was the shell on the right hand side of 27 just after turning left off of the road that goes by all the fast food and gas stations off of 69. Is
this the same station or not.

[Steve StLaurent]

It isn't the same station but they are both owned by the same company http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/ubb/frown.gif ! Did they do anything for you? I'm still waiting on the AG's office to act on it.

-Steve

[TRUCKDESIGNER]

I never even tried to get anything back. My tank was bad anyway and I had a new one to put in so I swapped tanks and ended up putting in two new filters. For me it wasn't
that big of a problem, but it sucks knowing that they know they have a problem and won't do a sh!ttin' thing about it. You live around Charlotte or just passing through?

[Steve StLaurent]

I'm about 25 minutes north northwest of Charlotte - although I don't pass through there very often. Email me at stevest@voyager.net and we'll get together sometime and say hi.

-Steve

[pinehill]

Steve,

Did you ever investigate the Small Claims Court process? Your situation just seems to be a natural for recovery of damages via this medium.

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[Steve StLaurent]

That's my next step, I'm trying to follow the options available out there first. The AG's office tries to act as an intermediary in issues like this but they have no real authority, so I'm letting them have their shot first. After that, small claims will probably be my next step (that or protesting). Only thing I don't like about that is that it can quietly go away and noone else around that area will be aware of the issue.

-Steve

[TRUCKDESIGNER]

Steve- I don't live in Charlotte. I live up
in North Branch and was visiting my parents that live outside of Tekonsha and detoured off of 69 down 27. I needed to fill up my one tank and they were fairly cheap so.....
Anyway, my problem wasn't nearly as bad as
yours.

[krisstarr]

You are a good man Steve. I have to travel 20 miles round trip to get decent fuel for my 6.2 otherwise she doesn't run very well on the local fuels. Of which Shell is one.

I am glad to see that you are following up on this problem. I would do the same. I have paid for a Lemon Costume so I could picket the Nissan Dealer a few years back when they refused to repair my automatic transmission on my New 86 Stanza Wagon. I am now going to contact the State Insurance Commissioner regarding my recent experiences with State Farm Auto Insurance. I find that few companies these days are willing to accept any responsibility for there products or services. Keep up the good work and from personal experience you may get the best results with Small Claims Court. I have done this a few times and they will pay a day or two before court. Kris

[This message has been edited by krisstarr (edited 06-29-2001).]