Gooseneck vs. Fifth-Wheel

[mdadgar]

So I'm a little unclear on the differences between a gooseneck hitch and a fifth-wheel. I understand the physical differences, but it's not clear to me why you'd choose one over the other.

Can someone explain it?

Thanks.

- Mark

[IndigoDually]

All camper type trailers come with a fifth wheel (kingpin on trailer/coupler on truck) type of hitch. Most (99%) of the horse/livestock and light-duty equipment trailers come with a gooseneck (coupler on trailer/ball in bed of truck) style of hitch. The g/n type allows for a clear bed with a minimal amount of effort the lower or remove a hitch ball from the bed. A fifth wheel coupler has a significant hitch assembly that connects(usuaully) to a set of rails that are mounted on top of the bed. Removing a 100 to 150 lb hitch assembly is definitely more difficult than just lowering a ball.
I do believe that set-up right, the same trailer will tow similarly with either hitch. I just purchased a 34' fifth wheel camper and I installed an adapter to convert it to a g/n coupler. I did feel a little fore and aft motion from the trailer which I believe will be helped by loading the trailer, I have not ever towed with a fifth wheel coupler and a similar trailer to know if the motion is trailer related or coupler related. I do feel the same motion towing my 20' enclosed landscape trailer filled with mowers though.
The reason that I am using a g/n adapter is that I have 3 trucks with g/n hitches in them and 3 other g/n trailers so I still needed a ball. This is a little hindsight but if I knew then what I know now I would have gone with the B & W system and been able to do both. I don't like the g/n ball set-ups that are available for fifth wheel rails because the weight of the loaded ball pushes down on the unsupported middle of the bed.

Sorry so long but I hope this helps,
John

[David Utz]

In theory, the gooseneck pivots closer to the truck axle and will have lower torque effects when starting and stopping. The kingpin on a fifth wheel is something like 12 inches higher than the ball of a gooseneck. This longer moment arm will cause the front if the truck to rise when accelerating and fall when breaking as the trailer pulls and pushes on the hitch. The gooseneck pivot is closer to the axle and will provide a smoother ride. Other than that, they pull about the same.

[Maverick]

Indigo,
What type of coupler adapter did you end up getting?

[IndigoDually]

Mav, I got one prom a place that I buy most of my trailer hitch supplies from (wiring, balls controllers-they sell the Prodigy for $125 everyday). I believe that it is made by the same company that makes the cushion hitches(the ones with the urethane around the pin in the ballmount). It is a round pipe with a gusseted flange on the top, it mounts with a stainless tapered adapter that set-screws onto the kingpin then the whole adapter goes on with three bolts similar to the regular locking bolts on a g/n coupler sleeve. As the bolts are tightened, the adapter is drawn tight against the king pin flange. It took all of 10 min. to install in the rain prior to hooking up the trailer. It's a really slick set-up without the pratfalls that You described with the Cody Coupler. The ball mount is cushoned by urethane 360 degrees and up and down to absorb some of the shock load.
I did feel some front to back motion and I think that it will improve with the trailer getting loaded since I think the pin weight was a little light. The 10,000 lb trailer with a supposed pin weight of 2220 lbs only squatted the truck 2"(I measured it when unhooking.
The adapter was the cheapest one I found at only $289, all others were well over$400.

John

[Maxter]

ID:

Could you find out the exact brand/model of your fithwheel to gooseneck adapter. I tried to look for it and couldn't find it anywhere.

The only ones I've found where the almost 500$ ones wich seems expansive for a chunk of steel.

My email is jeff@jflaplante.com

Thanks in advance.

JF.

[tjc]

Maxter,
Check out Anderson Hitches, I have the ranch adapter on a 33'5th and love it.I think I paid around $350 for it. It is also height adjustable.
Also using the B&W turnover.
tjc

[ 04-29-2003: Message edited by: tjc ]</p>

[Maxter]

TJC:

Tried to find that on the web as well with no succes. Looked for Anderson Hitches & Anderson Ranch Adapter.

Any precise info?

Thanks in advance.

[tjc]

Maxter,
Sorry to take so long haven't been back to check on this till now.
Here is a hitch site, I really like mine!!


http://www.hitchsolutions.com/ranchhitch.html


tjc

[Lone Eagle]

Maxter, Nine out of ten folks here opt for the Colibert Enterprize Inc. adaptor. Mine is a model # 205 B. Phone # 1-888-CE-HITCH. I am sure they have a web site. Later! Lone Eagle

[IndigoDually]

Maxter, I got it from Weaver Distributing (1-800-WEAVER D) They are great to work with and I have purchased a lot from them. The adapter is made by Convert-A-Ball. Their website is down right now.

I found a link to them from another company (http://www.hitchcorner.com/gooseneck-hitch.htm) they sell it along with the Cody Coupler. I did not go with the Cody Coupler because Maverick used one and ran into bed interference problems. This website sells the Convert-A-Ball one for more than Weaver's. I measured and bought two but returned one. The 14" was the right height and after looking at the trailer I figured I could always adjust the pin box if needed. It is a pretty stout adapter( the shipping weight was around 60 lbs.

I like it a lot and will keep an eye on the trailer frame to make sure there is not any problems.

John

[Maxter]

Thanks all for the replies. It has been very helpfull.

JF.

[wushaw]

Check out this hitch site.
www.cattz.com

[richp]

A word of caution about this conversion.

While it's true that the lever arm is reduced with respect to the truck (when going from a fifth wheel hitch to a gooseneck ball in the bed), there is a corresponding and significant increase in leverage applied to the frame of the trailer as you start and stop. Think about it. The gooseneck tube is a much longer lever than the pin of the fifth wheel hitch. If your trailer frame and the hitch box are not designed to handle these increased forces, then you could be in for some type of structural failure (weld breakage, metal fatigue, etc.) going down the road.

I made this conversion several years ago. There was a significant amount of new motion in the pin box and trailer -- far beyond anything I ever had seen with the factory hitch. It was scary enough to cause me to only tow with it once, and then only a very short trip. Changed back to the fifth wheel and never had that kind of motion again.

Finally, I wonder if insurance companies would cover you in an accident where something like this was retro-fitted without proof of factory approval. I would suggest a check with your trailer's manufacturer to determine if the frame is strong enough to handle this kind of change in the forces applied to it (and I'd get it in writing). I know there are reputable firms which make and sell these conversions -- I'm not putting them down. Maybe their warranties cover this situation, and that is something I would look at real hard also.

For what it's worth.

Rich Phillips
Member #28

[saywhat]

Very interesting and valid point made by Rich.I have noticed that the fifthwheel trailers with extended pin boxes also put more stress on the frame than those that are not extended.The extension works as a lever putting more force on the frame member the rear of the pin box is fastened to.I have seen 34 footers with extended pin boxes,makes me wonder just how stout their frame really is.

[Big O]

Simple question? Rather than all the guessing and "what-if's", does anyone know of a situation where the conversion caused a real problem? :confused:

[richp]

Otis, you're right on, but people who have problems due to their own poor decisions are probably not eager to tell the whole world on the Internet, and manufacturers of the conversion mechanisms have no motivation to play up the possible risks.

I can add that I contacted my trailer's manufacturer after the problem became apparent. They told me in no uncertain terms that the frame was not designed to handle such loads, adding that that they would never approve of such a change for fear of structural failure and lawsuits.

I would expect that the key to all this is whether or not a given manufacturer is willing to give a written OK to the retrofit. There may be RV-type fifth wheel trailers out there that have sturdy enough frames to handle the extra torque of a gooseneck. But when I look at factory gooseneck trailers, I see huge I-beams, heavy box sections and big-time triangulation, which evidently are designed to take the hitch stresses. I don't see how equally heavy structural steel members can be incorporated into the average RV-type fifth wheel trailer.

I'd love to hear from a real engineer or an RV manufacturer on this.

For what it's worth.

Rich Phillips
Member #28

[IndigoDually]

This dilema has been in the back of my mind since I picked up the 5'er. My problem is that I have 3 trucks with g/n hitches and 4 g/n trailers, so I have to have that ability. When I was looking for hitches The only ones out there was the B & W and the Putnam Firehawk.
I don't like the Reese or Draw-Tite idea of the g/n attachment that sits on 5th wheel hitch rails because I have seen bent rails and beds since the center is not supported. It also never entered my mind that I would be buying a 5th wheel anytime soon.
Now I see Putnam has a complete kit (G/N, 5th, mounting kit) for $598.
I am only towing the trailer 1 or2 weekends a month so I will keep an eye on the framework. If I hauled frequently with an adapter I would be more concearned. My concearns are with the trailer holding up, I have all the confidence in the world with the Convert-A-Ball adapter.

20/20 hindsight.

John

[imported_]

RE Reese convertible hitch.
I have been using their 5th wheel convertible to gooseneck hitch for about 5 years on 2 different vehicles and to date have had no problems.
I tow a 10,000 lb fifth wheel in the camping season and a 28' flatdeck (loaded)/27'tandem featherlite stock trailer / 30 cubic yard dump trailer. I get my share of towing miles and then some. personally i do not have a preference as i have found that each unit responds differently depending on what it is loaded with in regards to height and weight. just my .02

[a64pilot]

MaD MaX,
30 cu.yd.? what do you haul in it? It's not dirt is it?, My God what would 30 yds. of dirt weigh?

[chipper]

a64pilot,
30 yards&gt;&gt;bout 95,000++

[imported_]

It is a Garbage trailer.... OMG i could not imagine trying to pull that trailer with sand gravel or dirt....oh.... and it was late when i posted it...lol..27 cu ft in a yard.... therefore the trailer is only 15 cubic yards.... sorry my mistake

[Mark A]

I've got the reese rails for the g/n and 5er and mine havent bent. We've had 25000lb's on the trailer alone and not had any problems.Maybe the person who installed them didnt put the spacers in that fill the gaps between the mounting brackets and the bottom side of the bed.

Mark

[IndigoDually]

Lone Eagle and others using an adapter,
How does the trailer pull? My g/n's are rock solid and my camper with the adapter seems to have some push/pull bucking feeling when on bumpy roads. I don't know if I am getting any flex in the pinbox on the little bit of play is amplified due to the arrangement. The adapter seems rock solid and is not moving at all so I am leaning toward a pin box flex.

I would switch to a rail 5'er hitch but I already have a 5" hole drilled in the bed and I really don't think I'll be able to add a second hitch set-up due to interference of the brackets.

I am seriously looking at the Ptunam set-up and wonder if anyone has used one and my main concearn is the location of the hole in the bed. It should be in the same place but I want to clarify it prior to making the jump.

John

[richp]

Not to beat this to death, but strength/rigidity of these adapters was not my concern -- it was the trailer frame's reaction over time to greater leverage forces.

If you can see unusual flex in the vicinity of the pin box, you also have to ask what is going on elsewhere in the frame. Such movement suggests non-design forces are being transmitted back where you can't see -- the joints between the main frame and structural members that connect it to the pin box (because these areas are covered up by the aluminum or fiberglass skin of the trailer). If you can't see them and inspect them regularly, how can you be sure that incipient cracks in welds or other fatigue-related activity isn't going on?

I'm aware that many folks use this type of conversion mechanism for years on end with no problem and I'm aware that reputable firms make the conversion gear (this isn't a cautionary note about hitches -- it's about trailer frame strength). I'm also aware of the dilemma of having an investment in equipment that uses both types of hitches -- I ended up with both a folding ball and fifth wheel rails in my '93 K2500.

For what it's worth (and free advice is generally worth what you paid for it!!!)

Rich Phillips