Assuming it's Toast

[Clark's diesel]

On my way home from the holiday visit, I noticed a ticking noise from the passenger side of the pickup. Luckily I only had ten miles left before home. I popped the hood while running to take a listen. It seems to be coming from the vacuum pump. I am assuming that since it is making a sort of hammering noise, it is toast. The three silenoids that are on the drivers side of the intake wouldn't be the culprit would they? I broke the nice, (POS), plastic vacuum line that goes from the pump to the silenoids in an attempt to feel for vacuum from the pump. None what so ever. Thanks for the input, and happy Thanksgiving everyone.

[markrinker]

My advice would be to remove the bad pump, put on a '93 model serpentine belt, remove all the vacuum lines and solenoids, and buy a Turbo-Master.

[Clark's diesel]

If I do that don't I have to buy a boost fooler or get a new chip or something to keep the SES light from coming on?

[markrinker]

I have been running a Turbo-Master on truck #1 that is otherwise 'bone stock'.

Once in a while (under a heavy foot or towing load) it will set the SES light, but it goes out with the next key cycle. Normal driving does not set the light.

[Clark's diesel]

I think I'll have to do a little research on the idea. This is the second pump that has been on the truck. I need to check how long ago I had it installed. It is a Delco and should have a good warranty, but probably no more than a year or two. Won't I be getting boost all of the time with the turbo master instead of only when I need it with the origional equipment?

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
The Turbomaster is a spring with a set-nut that allows you to agjust the amount of pressure it takes to open the waste gate. REALLY simple... If you adjust it right you would only see a nominal amount of boost. Diesels run better with some boost all the time. Also I think you would gain something in power and mileage by removeing the vac pump.
L8r
Conley

[Clark's diesel]

How hard is the unit to install? I would still have to take off the faulty vacumm pump, correct? I know myself well enough that I would probably turn up the boost a little bit. I have read some threads researching this and some guys are getting SES lights with the extra boost. I don't want to have to buy a boost fooler or new computer to fix the light issue.

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
Give Bill Heath a call, he is VERY helpfull. I can't say for your truck, but I know mine has never thrown a code but I have the Heath ECM. The Turbo master is VERY easy to install. You might want to make sure that your truck does NOT need vac for anything else. I see that it is a 1/2 ton, Might be different than the bigger trucks....
L8r
COnley

[Clark's diesel]

I e-mailed him and I also e-mailed Kennedy, to get his input on the whole thing. I hope the info and opinion each gives is just that, and not just a sales pitch to get me to buy one or the others product. From what I have read, they are both professionals and know what they are talking about.

[markrinker]

My opinion is that JK has a more eloquent solution for trucks that have solenoids, vaccuum lines, pump and wastegate actuator all in good working order. It allows the stock (or aftermarket) ECM to more dynamically control boost.

However, most 10 year old vehicles have one or more of these componants failing, or about to fail. Heath's approach replaces multiple aging componants and puts the boost control issue to rest, once and for all.

I have been running them on trucks #1 and #2 (below) for 3+ years and over 100K miles total between the two. Set it and forget it, never an issue since. Both have the vaccuum pumps removed and run a '93 style (shorter) serpentine belt.

[ejk2352]

I put the Turbo-Master on my truck long before I put in Max-E-Tork chip. As long as you follow Bill's instructions and keep the boost under 7 psi, you shouldn't set any codes. Getting rid of the vacuum pump is a good idea. I have had 2 fail on my truck, and the third was getting noisy till I got rid of it, after installing the Turbo-Master.

[Clark's diesel]

Since everything but the pump is in working order, I went to the parts house and purchased a rebuilt vacuum pump. I got everything apart and now can't seem to get the (POS) pulley off. I noticed it was bent a little before I tried taking it off. The shop that put it on must have bent it either taking it off or putting it back on. I'll have to talk with them on Monday about it. I am using a three jaw puller but this thing won't budge. After seeing that it is out of round a liitle bit, I am contemplating two things. One is to go buy a new pulley for $25.00 and have it pressed on. The other is to go with Heath diesel's Turbo Master. I looked at Kennedy's site and saw a pump w/pulley installed but he wanted too much money IMO. My new pump was only $148.00. Even if you add the $25.00 for the new pulley it doesn't come close to the $250.00 he wants, don't forget the shipping also. Obviously I am money ahead w/the second option. Decisions, decisions, decisions what to do. Would I need to take off all of the vacuum silenoids and plug a bunch of lines as well?

[markrinker]

No.

[JoeyD]

I have a turbo master in my garage, I installed it and removed it as I didn't see the benifit of running boost all the time. I also just replaced my vac pump due to the pulley breaking off the shaft, 110,000 miles on it when it broke. The pump was fine but with the milage and trying to remove the stock pulley forget it.
I would get a new pulley and pump and install it and be done with it.

[BobND]

Originally posted by Turbo Powered:
I am using a three jaw puller but this thing won't budge. Here's the tool needed to pull off, and reinstall the pulley.

(A three jaw puller ain't gonna do it without wrecking the puller. Perhaps you could rent a tool from the parts place?)

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/brandsplace/0246-otc4681.html


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=40749


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=43188

[DmaxMaverick]

There seems to be a misunderstanding as to how the wastegate and control works.

The wastegate control (either OEM, JK, or TM) only limits the amount of boost, assuming all is working correctly. None of them limit, or allow any specific amount of boost at low to mid pedal input. In all cases, the wastegate is held closed until a boost level is reached. The difference between the different devices, is the method the exhaust pressure is held, and released.

The Turbo Master is the simplest, yet the least efficient. Spring load holds the WG closed until exhaust pressure forces it open. It happens gradually, opening the WG only as much as the pressure against it can force it. To increase boost, more spring pressure is required. Simple, minimal parts needed with no electronic or operator input. A drawback to this is the exhaust pressure will start opening the WG before the boost target is reached, wasting energy.

The vacuum operated solutions is much more precise and efficient, but more, sophisticated parts are needed (more to go wrong), including the vacuum pump. The system will hold the WG closed as long as there is sufficient vacuum, and open it when the solenoid valve is commanded. Boost is maintained until the target pressure is reached, even against the exhaust pressure. It is more efficient, in that it will not bleed off exhaust pressure until the target boost pressure is reached. This is why a healty vacuum system is needed. If you have weak vacuum, bleeding can occur, decreasing the efficiency, and wasting energy (this translates into more heat than power output).

Boost happens only when certain criteria are met. With the applications we are talking about (a 6.5L TD, for example), turbo boost can only be present when it is needed. A turbocharged Diesel engine cannot make boost unless there is a significant load on the engine. Without the load, the exhaust gas pressure will not be sufficient to overcome the restriction of the compressor/housing, therefore not produce enough pressure to overcome the restriction of the intake, therefore, insufficient exhaust gasses to.......It is a loop of gasses, with a mechanical link between the exhaust and intake. For any of you who believe your engine is producing unecessary boost or "didn't see the benifit of running boost all the time", your are misinformed. None of the WG controllers can give you boost when it isn't needed.

If your only need for a vacuum pump is wastegate control, it's a tradeoff whether to keep it or not. The parasitic loss to the vacuum pump and additional problematic parts offset the inefficency of a mechanical control, not to mention the $$. The only drawback I can see is the wear on the wastegate itself. A controller that allows the gate to "bleed" will eventually become less efficient. The escaping gasses will eventually begin to erode the metal, like flame cutting occurs on magnum revolver frames, effecting the metal-to-metal seal ability. This may be a non-issue, but I haven't seen a study on it.

As stated above, using a jaw type puller will damage the pulley. A hub/flange type puller/installer is necessary to prevent pulley damage. You will need the same type puller if you replace the power steering pump, and some alternator and A/C pulleys.

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
Thanks Dmax for the GREAT explaination!
Good info.
L8r
Conley

[Clark's diesel]

Thanks D-Max! That's what I needed to hear to help make my decision. I will most definitely purchase the puller/reinstaller as I already have the pump purchased, and I think I need to replace the power steering pump soon. I posted a topic on sluggish steering, and the response was to flush or change the power steering system/pump. I checked with the fellas that changed out my origional vacuum pump and it was actually done four years ago, at 70,000 miles. The Delco pump has no warranty now, which I figured it wouldn't. I figure 4 years or 70,000 miles whichever comes first is pretty good for what some call a real (POS) part/system. Thanks again to everyone for the input, as I will be doing most of all the repairs on my truck from now on with my newfound knowledge. TDP Rules!

[BobND]

The vacuum pump on my '94 went nearly 180,000 miles and 11 years. Twice, though, a wire has fatigued and broken near the solenoid bank!

[turbovair]

I replaced my vaccuum pump with a unit from JK.When you operate at higher altitudes on level ground(Arizona/ New Mexico high desert) the computer will dial in a certain amount of boost and compensate for the decreased air pressure. I do not believe you will not have this benefit with a TurboMaster. Above about 3000 ft on level ground ,I show about 2-3 PSI boost at a constant 65 MPH.